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Malcolm 
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,07:39 |
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I'm calling bullshit on the freedom of speech argument, and especially the comparison with Piss Christ.
Piss Christ was just that, Jesus in a jar of urine. Â The dude who did it didn't deceive anyone with the shit he was doing, and he wasn't a convicted asshole criminal.
QUOTE Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Leigh Williams said Nakoula set up fraudulent bank accounts using stolen identities and Social Security numbers; then, checks from those accounts would be deposited into other bogus accounts from which Nakoula would withdraw money at ATM machines.
It was "basically a check-kiting scheme," the prosecutor told the AP. "You try to get the money out of the bank before the bank realizes they are drawn from a fraudulent account. There basically is no money."
Prior to his bank fraud conviction, Nakoula struggled with a series of financial problems in recent years, according to California state tax and bankruptcy records. In June 2006, a $191,000 tax lien was filed against him in the Los Angeles County Recorder of Deeds office. In 1997, a $106,000 lien was filed against him in Orange County.
American actors and actresses who appeared in "Innocence of Muslims" issued a joint statement Wednesday saying they were misled about the project and alleged that some of their dialogue was crudely dubbed during post-production.
If you want to argue about freedom of speech, how about all the actors who had their speech literally removed because of this dude without their consent or knowledge? Â That's about as honest as photoshopping someone's face onto a porno and claiming it's "lost footage from their early career."
EDIT: I'm not coming down on this fucker for hating on Islam, I'm coming down on him because he felt the need to get the unwilling participation of others, and in general, seems to be a dishonest douche.
EDITx2: Rioting is a way to relieve boredom and frustration. If I lived in Egypt, Jordan, or any of those other places, I'd have those two things in spades.
Edited by Malcolm on Sep. 14 2012,07:44
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 3
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Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26651
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:24 |
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QUOTE I'm calling bullshit on the freedom of speech argument, and especially the comparison with Piss Christ.
Piss Christ was just that, Jesus in a jar of urine. The dude who did it didn't deceive anyone with the shit he was doing, and he wasn't a convicted asshole criminal.
You're 100% wrong there.
It doesn't matter if he deceived anyone or if he's a former criminal. The film still represents freedom of speech.
If I remember, the guy who did the piss Christ thing tricked someone in some way. Like they didn't know what his exhibit really was or some shit. Either way, it's irrelevant.
QUOTE If you want to argue about freedom of speech, how about all the actors who had their speech literally removed because of this dude without their consent or knowledge?
Explain. I honestly didn't know about his criminal past or deceiving the actors. I should have read further, but it really doesn't change my point.
When actors appear in films or even when folks appear on reality TV, they sign away their rights to be displayed in a certain way.
I don't think any actor who ever played Hitler actually believes anything Hitler said or did. I don't believe Morgan Freeman is actually God. I don't think Uma Thurman can rip through world class assassins. Etc.
It's make believe. It's a movie. Do you think every single extra in Passion of the Christ agreed with the film's message? Ditto for every political film ever made.
Now if they were tricked about what kind of film they were shooting I'd think that was shitty, but lawyers would argue that's their fault, not his. Plus, it still doesn't affect my point.
None of it justifies folks getting killed and none of it justifies his own government marking him and his loved ones for death.
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| Post Number: 4
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:42 |
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As for the asshole that made the "film" and his freedom of speech/expression...
The douchebag said the actors were making a movie about some 2000 year old Middle Eastern or African warrior. Â He has blatantly misrepresented himself at almost every opportunity, has multiple aliases, and the only thing he's said which hasn't been a lie thus far is that he hates Muslims. Â If he wants to exercise a right to say what he wants, then he has need to have the balls to say it & publish it himself, even do it anonymously if he wants. Â I'd give him every benefit of the doubt if his cast and crew stood in solidarity with him. Â He can put a one-man Muslim-hating show on Broadway for all I care. Â He used deception and subversion to promote an agenda and tricked others into helping him. Â If he'd been up front with them from the beginning, I wouldn't care. Â But he wasn't, so he fucking deserves any consequences he gets. Â This isn't artistic freedom up for grabs here, merely the freedom to be an asshole and poke a nest full of bees under the guise of political expression. Â Everyone that gets stung is going to be very pissed at you. Â I'd be.
As for the assholes rioting...
They're malcontent assholes who don't have ready access to cable TV. Â The Arab Spring thing seems to have put the ol' spirit of revolution back into some folk, and no one's really at the helm of that ship (or fleet of ships), so to speak.
As for Piss Christ...
I'm aware of zero deception of any sort involved in that. Â The artist obtained all the components himself and did everything himself, and was up front about it from start to finish. Â He also received death threats from the Christians who've not gotten that shit out of their system in the past few centuries. Â He got a grant from the NEA and some Congressmen got their panties in a tussle, but that's about it.
QUOTE On April 17, 2011, a print of Piss Christ was vandalized "beyond repair" by Christian protesters while on display during the Je crois aux miracles (I believe in miracles) exhibition at the Collection Lambert, a contemporary art museum in Avignon, France. Â Serrano's photo The Church was similarly vandalized in the attack.
They aren't smashing down embassies, but it sure as shit ain't tolerant.
Edited by Malcolm on Sep. 14 2012,08:44
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 5
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:44 |
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I think that guy has every right to make a film critical of islam, of the pedophile muhammad, and anything else he wants. I am saying this on a public forum. Should I be arrested if some religious nutball goes on a killing spree over what I just typed?
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I don't give a fuck!
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| Post Number: 6
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:45 |
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(Malcolm @ Sep. 14 2012,11:42)
QUOTE QUOTE On April 17, 2011, a print of Piss Christ was vandalized "beyond repair" by Christian protesters while on display during the Je crois aux miracles (I believe in miracles) exhibition at the Collection Lambert, a contemporary art museum in Avignon, France. Â Serrano's photo The Church was similarly vandalized in the attack. They aren't smashing down embassies, but it sure as shit ain't tolerant.
Someone defaced a poster. Wow. Completely comparable to storming american soil and killing americans.
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| Post Number: 7
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:51 |
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(GORDON @ Sep. 14 2012,10:44)
QUOTE I think that guy has every right to make a film critical of islam, of the pedophile muhammad, and anything else he wants. Â I am saying this on a public forum. Â Should I be arrested if some religious nutball goes on a killing spree over what I just typed?
No, because you're being genuine in your expression and you aren't bullshitting others in order to make your point. All this fucker had to do was fine a cast of people that hated Islam as much as he did, and then make this fucking flick. I'd still be calling him a douche, but I wouldn't feel the need to kidnap, drug, and drop him in Saudi Arabia in the middle of the night to film a variation on the scene in Die Hard 3 where Bruce Willis has to go to Harlem.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 8
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:52 |
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So... he's guilty because his actors were acting?
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| Post Number: 9
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:54 |
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Can we agree that everyone involved (excepting the slain) are assholes, but all of them have the right to speak their minds as long as they don't kill anyone to do it?
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 10
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,08:54 |
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(GORDON @ Sep. 14 2012,10:45)
QUOTE
(Malcolm @ Sep. 14 2012,11:42)
QUOTE QUOTE On April 17, 2011, a print of Piss Christ was vandalized "beyond repair" by Christian protesters while on display during the Je crois aux miracles (I believe in miracles) exhibition at the Collection Lambert, a contemporary art museum in Avignon, France. Â Serrano's photo The Church was similarly vandalized in the attack. They aren't smashing down embassies, but it sure as shit ain't tolerant. Someone defaced a poster. Â Wow. Â Completely comparable to storming american soil and killing americans.
You must've missed the "death threats" part earlier.
And someone tell me why the Christians in England and Ireland have been bombing the everloving fuck out of each other for decades now. That has about as much to do with religion as any of this bullshit.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 11
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,09:02 |
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I thought the IRA was resisting english occupation. Religion is in the mix? Never heard that.
QUOTE Can we agree that everyone involved (excepting the slain) are assholes, but all of them have the right to speak their minds as long as they don't kill anyone to do it?
Shit yeah. My point from the beginning. My point for about 20 years.
QUOTE You must've missed the "death threats" part earlier.
I don't really give much of a shit about death threats, either. There's about a million miles between uttering a threat, and following through. At least making a threat first is honest... gathering a mob and taking out unarmed civilians is about as bad as it gets. You can only add some dead women and children to make it worse.... and I honestly believe that mob would have killed any american women and children they could find. Because they are a dirty, unruly, ignorant, religious mob. No time for though, doctor jones.
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,09:06 |
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(TPRJones @ Sep. 14 2012,12:03)
QUOTE
(GORDON @ Sep. 14 2012,11:02)
QUOTE I thought the IRA was resisting english occupation. Â Religion is in the mix? Â Never heard that. Seriously?
Never been a student of the IRA issue. Just know the IRA sets bombs and the english army shoots peeps. If the english army doens't like getting bombed, why don't they get out of ireland? That's why I thought it was about occupation.
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,09:07 |
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Stop the presses... actors got exploited.
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| Post Number: 16
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,09:10 |
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(GORDON @ Sep. 14 2012,11:06)
QUOTE
(TPRJones @ Sep. 14 2012,12:03)
QUOTE
(GORDON @ Sep. 14 2012,11:02)
QUOTE I thought the IRA was resisting english occupation. Â Religion is in the mix? Â Never heard that. Seriously? Never been a student of the IRA issue. Â Just know the IRA sets bombs and the english army shoots peeps. Â If the english army doens't like getting bombed, why don't they get out of ireland? Â That's why I thought it was about occupation.
The Catholics and Protestants have been busy executing other over there every since Henry VIII couldn't get a divorce. The shit going over there is every bit Catholic v. Protestant as much as the shit going on now is Islaim v. the Great Zionist regime or whatever.
That is, to say, the religion is merely an excuse to treat other people shittily. They would have found other reasons, I've no doubt, but this is the banner they're rallying under.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 17
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,09:12 |
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Well I guess all I have left to say about that is
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,09:17 |
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Never saw Ronin. Saw BS for the first time about two years ago... not much stuck with me.
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| Post Number: 20
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Sep. 14 2012,09:21 |
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(GORDON @ Sep. 14 2012,11:07)
QUOTE Stop the presses... actors got exploited.
Considering it got them involved in a production which might cost them their lives, yeah, I'd say they've got a gripe with this fucker. Â Would've been nice if they knew that before they got fucking lied to. Â If he wants to communicate his message, he shouldn't have to trick people into dispensing it. Â He ought to have the fucking balls to do it himself or at least appear on camera in his movie. Â The director/producer douche is a complete fucking coward. Â He deserves to get shanked for it. Â This dude did not. Â That shit is artistic freedom of speech intended to make a point. Â So is this and this.
This is some fucker making a low budget exploitation film and then overdubbing it so he can market it to a particular audience and hopefully turn a profit on something that doesn't involve bank fraud. At the very least, the cast and crew deserve to see it yanked from every media outlet.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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