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Leisher 
Top 3%, yo.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26651
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,07:07 |
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It's events like this that make me wish there really was a hell.
One entire classroom of kids murdered, and half of another.
It's bad enough that some twisted fuck, who literally looks like death, did this, now we have to listen to people trying to capitalize on it or push their political agendas.
Here's a timeline that seems to blame video games. Interesting that they never mention his mental illness.
Of course, these assholes have to make an appearance. It amazes me that these fucks haven't been killed yet by a grieving family member of any of the funerals they attend.
Then there's the gun control people who seem to think guns are this massive evil, and if we ban them, stuff like this won't happen anymore. You know, just like nobody does drugs since they made them illegal...
And was Obama's trip to Newton, and his speech appropriate? If I was one of those parents, I'd be pissed. I wouldn't want my kid's death turned into a political issue. At the same time though, shouldn't our "leaders" be showing their faces and making some attempt to do something?
Finally, if you go to any concert, any fair or festival, some schools, most movie theaters, any sporting event, any political rally, or generally any place where there's a large group of people, you will find on or off duty cops. Why don't we have one in every school? One armed police officer or member of the military or even a veteran (obviously, not an elderly one) would drastically decrease a school shooter's odds of getting a high body count.
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| Post Number: 2
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,07:30 |
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QUOTE Of course, these assholes have to make an appearance. It amazes me that these fucks haven't been killed yet by a grieving family member of any of the funerals they attend.
We really need to start name-dropping them to the psycho fundie Muslims. "Hey terrorists dudes, you want some free PR? Bomb these fuckers."
QUOTE Why don't we have one in every school?
Fuck that. Single point of failure. The Swiss do not have school shootings. Well, not in the sense of "dude walking in and shooting it up," more in the "school children can form proper firing lines and send rounds down range accurately" sort of way.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 3
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,08:01 |
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(Leisher @ Dec. 17 2012,10:07)
QUOTE Finally, if you go to any concert, any fair or festival, some schools, most movie theaters, any sporting event, any political rally, or generally any place where there's a large group of people, you will find on or off duty cops. Why don't we have one in every school? One armed police officer or member of the military or even a veteran (obviously, not an elderly one) would drastically decrease a school shooter's odds of getting a high body count.
What popped into my mind was, "It is too bad that being a male teacher is a guarantee of an eventual child molestation charge."
I try to not think about what happened there too much, because it would crush me if I let the reality of it completely sink in. It is just too bad, though, there weren't any teachers there who were former military.
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I don't give a fuck!
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| Post Number: 4
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,08:02 |
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(Malcolm @ Dec. 17 2012,10:30)
QUOTE QUOTE Why don't we have one in every school? Fuck that. Â Single point of failure. Â The Swiss do not have school shootings. Â Well, not in the sense of "dude walking in and shooting it up," more in the "school children can form proper firing lines and send rounds down range accurately" sort of way.
Yeah but Norway did, recently. I thin it was Norway. 70 kids killed?
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I don't give a fuck!
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| Post Number: 5
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,08:25 |
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Norway != Switzerland. Finding an armed tween in Norway or the U.S. is generally cause for concern. In Switzerland, finding an unarmed one is unusual.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 6
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TheCatt
Top 2%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 22951
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,08:30 |
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What happened was brutal. It happened right before my wife and I went to our child's kindergarten for a show the kids did singing songs. 20 kids in that class. Doors to the building unlocked. No police presence.
I have no idea what the right answer is. Like Gordon, it makes me sick, so I honestly try not to think of it too much. There's nothing that can be done about those kids. Nothing. If something like that happened here, there's nothing I could about that either.
I'm having a hard time getting my mind around it. On the one hand, it's not like this happens everywhere every day/month or even year. On the other hand, it happened.
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It's not me, it's someone else.
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| Post Number: 7
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| Post Number: 9
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Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26651
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,09:03 |
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I just think people are screaming about guns, or in the case of the one article, video games, when they should be worried about other things.
1. How does someone like this not raise flags? Especially when his mother is training him to shoot? (Not saying this was the goal, just that mentally disturbed people shouldn't be trained in shooting.)
2. Would it really be difficult to put one armed and trained person into every school as a precaution? Maybe that person gets killed and isn't able to stop another massacre, but they had a chance, which is more than those kids in Newton had.
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| Post Number: 10
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,09:31 |
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I'm starting to suspect that bullies might serve a purpose. A kid like this - if he hadn't been home-schooled - would probably have had the crap beaten out of him on a regular basis. Eventually he'd be forced to learn to be less socially awkward or he'd have snapped and killed the bullies. Either way he wouldn't have been in a position to do what he did last week.
Personally I hate bullies, but perhaps the trend to reduce bullying to zero is a little short-sighted. Some people just need to be beaten up.
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 11
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,09:43 |
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QUOTE I just think people are screaming about guns, or in the case of the one article, video games, when they should be worried about other things.
It's easier to blame inanimate objects instead of the people that use them. Â Objects cannot defend themselves, and it's far easier to take rage and frustration out on them instantaneously than to dig in and consider the blame ought to be placed on the motherfucker that pulled the trigger.
QUOTE A kid like this - if he hadn't been home-schooled - would probably have had the crap beaten out of him on a regular basis. Â Eventually he'd be forced to learn to be less socially awkward or he'd have snapped and killed the bullies.
Probably. Â I disagree with your conclusions ... the folks are who apt to become less socially awkward due to bullying tend to be the ones with an underlying nasty predisposition which proves them to be far worse than those who bullied them. Â Pushing those sorts of people into being bastards creates additional problems.
As for killing the bullies ... maybe. Â There's no guarantee he takes his anger out on those who tormented him as opposed to those he can more easily torment himself.
QUOTE Some people just need to be beaten up.
Amen.
Edited by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,09:44
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 12
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| Post Number: 13
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,09:53 |
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Meh, you can't test for that sort of thing that easily. Â There's far too many X going on every day.
No, you'd have to have controls. Â Two schools almost identical with randomly assigned students. Â At one school you punish bullying severely, and remove serial bullies from the system. Â But worry not, you just send them to the other school, where bullying is allowed - nay, encouraged. Â Maybe even have a 10 minute bullying break ever afternoon. Â School lunches are half price if paid for with some other kids' money. Â In the interest of safety, this school has extra-wide toilet bowls and lockers that can be opened from the inside.
But you can't do that sort of testing. Â And what parent would want to send their kids to school #2?
Edited by TPRJones on Dec. 17 2012,09:53
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 14
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Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26651
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,10:06 |
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I don't think you have to have testing. We're not the TSA. We don't have to strip search 80 year old white women.
We just need to look around and alter some behaviors. The problem is that we have to do it as a society, and getting everyone on board will be tough.
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| Post Number: 16
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,10:45 |
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(Leisher @ Dec. 17 2012,12:06)
QUOTE I don't think you have to have testing. We're not the TSA. We don't have to strip search 80 year old white women.
We just need to look around and alter some behaviors. The problem is that we have to do it as a society, and getting everyone on board will be tough.
Make school fucking matter. Then, they'll be forced to pay attention and do their shit then, or their life gets more difficult later on. That's a bitch of a problem, though, because most schools only have a 1% hit rate on the "useful to bullshit" knowledge ratio.
Even more to the point, some high school kids genuinely need more schooling. Someone has to be the engineer and scientist of the future. On the flip side, some people have a brain that's simply not cut out for such things. Get them on-the-job training, NOW. Give them a job and an income to lose so that when they do lose it, they have some memory of how not to be a worthless fucking drain on society. One can be a drain either by being unemployed for one's entire life due to sloth or incompetency, and one can also be a drain by shooting up a room full of students.
Then there are the ones with no social skills whatsoever that've been coddled by their relatives since the day they exited the vagina (probably the only real one they ever see), which is the category this fucker falls into. To you, your kid is special. To everyone else in the world, he's a potential problem unless he learns to integrate with the rest of his species.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 17
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,10:59 |
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The simplest way to fix schools would be to take all the bullshit out of the curriculum and teach real useful shit. Then stop being afraid to fail students that fail and kick them out if they don't at least pretend to take it seriously.
Stop treating it like a glorified daycare and maybe the students will stop doing the same.
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 18
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,11:05 |
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There's a fine line between being harsh enough to push them and being overly harsh, driving them away. Â As far as "bullshit in the curriculum," that's an overhaul that's been needed for a loooooooooong time. Â Won't be happening, though. Â Schools still get enough backlash when they try to teach evolution, let alone matters of a more practical nature.
Edited by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,11:05
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 19
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 17 2012,11:27 |
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Dude explains why psych system should have caught this fucker.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 20
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