|
|
| Post Number: 1
|
Leisher 
Top 3%, yo.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26651
Joined: May 2004
|
 |
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,08:27 |
|
   |
I really don't care too much about baseball, but I do have a question about the Philadelphia Phillies.
You're going to play Atlanta or St. Louis in the playoffs. Atlanta has most of their starting pitchers hurt, their bats have gone cold, and they're fading. Meanwhile, St. Louis is the hottest team in baseball. They have a strong pitching staff, and they hit very well.
You've owned Atlanta this year, but haven't done so well against St. Louis.
Atlanta can clinch the wildcard in their last three games, which happens to be a series against you.
Why don't you lay down for them?
For those who don't follow baseball, St. Louis got into the playoffs and eliminated Philadelphia. Had Phily told their players to do what they had to do to throw those games against Atlanta, without making it obvious, they'd be in the NLDS right now instead of watching it on TV.
|
 |
|
|
| Post Number: 2
|
TheCatt
Top 2%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 22951
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,08:37 |
|
 |
There seems to be some unspoken rule that you must always try to win games, even win it doesn't make sense for you.
End-of-season NFL sometimes has the same issue. If you're not playing for a play-off spot, lose. Get a better draft pick.
Edited by TheCatt on Oct. 10 2011,08:38
--------------
It's not me, it's someone else.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 3
|
TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,11:10 |
|
|
Bah! It's not about winning at any cost. It's about doing the best you can, all the time, and playing an honorable game.
This is professional sports we are talking about here, not some reality television gameshow.
--------------
Vidi Perfutui Veni
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 4
|
Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26651
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,11:40 |
|
|
Why is it "honorable" to not give yourself the best chance for victory?
Granted, I'm not condoning cheating, using performance enhancing drugs, etc., but St. Louis put itself in the position to miss the playoffs. That's not Philly's fault.
Why is it "dishonorable", and not "smart strategy" to do whatever you can to eliminate a team who is super hot, and just kicked your ass two weeks ago?
Please note that in the NFL, playoff bound teams sit their starters for the final regular season game every year. If they can do that in football, the #1 sport in the country, why can't they do that in baseball?
Let's say Philly just stopped trying in their final series with Atlanta. Their pitchers threw nothing but changeups or fastballs down the middle, and they didn't try stealing or crazy dives that might hurt their players. Atlanta sweeps them, and gets in the playoffs despite St. Louis sweeping Houston (who they played in their final series) because Atlanta was still ahead in the wild card race.
Now Philly plays a depleted Atlanta team, faces Milwaukee, who they've had better luck against this year, and then they're in the World Series. Does anyone care about that final series with Atlanta anymore? Does it get talked about 10 years from now? Does it tarnish their crown? In the "honorable" way of sports, shouldn't St. Louis have earned their spot in the playoffs? Because everyone bitches about people "backdooring" their way in, as if being in the playoffs is a negative thing.
And understand, I don't know how I feel about it. I get the honorable side of things, but at the same time, I see the strategy, and I'm not sure why it's wrong. Ethics? Really? If it's ethics, then any deception in any competition would be considered unethical.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 5
|
TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,12:29 |
|
|
This is supposed to be about one team besting the other on the field of battle. Not about throwing a game so you can use another team to defeat your opponent for you.
This is why I don't watch sports.
--------------
Vidi Perfutui Veni
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 6
|
TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,12:42 |
|
|
Well, okay, there are a lot of reasons I don't watch sports.
But this is one of them.
--------------
Vidi Perfutui Veni
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 7
|
Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26651
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,13:09 |
|
|
QUOTE This is supposed to be about one team besting the other on the field of battle. Not about throwing a game so you can use another team to defeat your opponent for you.
But they're NOT using another team to beat their opponent. In fact, there is no opponent. They're playing meaningless games until the playoffs start, but the other two are trying to get into the playoffs.
In this scenario, Philly simply has the option to select their playoff opponent. They didn't, and were eliminated from the playoffs by a very hot team. I'm simply asking, why wouldn't they make sure they played the lesser team?
QUOTE This is why I don't watch sports.
But it isn't just sports. This sort of scenario can be applied to anything where people, teams, etc. are pitted against one another.
And not just this specific scenario. In the game, Borderlands, there is a mission early on where you have to fight a large skag. He's tough as hell. I discovered a ridge near his area where I can snipe his ass from long distance. Can he still hit me? Yes, but it's harder for him, takes him longer to get to my perch, and if he wants to come up and melee me, he has to go all the way around, and then up a long ramp. Meanwhile, I can kick his ass, and his minions without putting myself in total jeopardy.
Am I gaming the system because I'm not honorably standing toe to toe with the skag?
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 8
|
TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,14:50 |
|
|
QUOTE In fact, there is no opponent. They're playing meaningless games until the playoffs start, but the other two are trying to get into the playoffs.
If it's were really meaningless we wouldn't be having this conversation. Â Because it wouldn't have any effect on anyone. Â In fact it does matter, apparently. Â And as you've described it we're talking about them throwing a game so that they have an easier time against a lesser opponent instead of playing against someone better.
It's like that reality show Top Shot. Â I hate it when someone is trying to get rid of better shooters instead of weaker ones. Â So do most of the people on the show. Â Because the point of the game is the shooting, not the bullshit strategy of tossing out the better shooters. Â And fortunately most contestants still want to go up against the best of the best and play it right. Â When that stops happening I stop watching.
QUOTE But it isn't just sports. This sort of scenario can be applied to anything where people, teams, etc. are pitted against one another.
Sure. Â And if it's about life and death, then fuck honorable and do whatever it takes to survive. Â But as long as it's something that can be termed a "game" then honor matters, because otherwise it become bullshit and there is no longer any point in playing the game. Â And you can be certain that anything you list where people are more concerned about the bullshit than the honorable game is something I don't watch or take part in.
QUOTE Am I gaming the system because I'm not honorably standing toe to toe with the skag?
Nope. Â None of this applies in a single-player game. Â Let me turn that around at you: when a player uses an exploit on you in a game to win against you when they otherwise wouldn't have, is that just part of the game? Â Because I think that's the best word to apply to what you are talking about with Philly, using an exploit to increase their odds of winning instead of playing the real game.
Edited by TPRJones on Oct. 10 2011,14:51
--------------
Vidi Perfutui Veni
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 9
|
TheCatt
Top 2%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 22951
Joined: May 2004
|
|
Posted on: Oct. 10 2011,16:59 |
|
|
It's not an exploit. It's strategy
--------------
It's not me, it's someone else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
