Thunderdome 2015 » Printable Version of Topic » Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon 2: the Green Legend

Forum: Movies, Television, Books (Does anyone still read?)
Topic: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon 2: the Green Legend
started by: Malcolm

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 09 2014,09:17

< Probably NOT > coming to a theatre near you. But that's only because theatre chain owners are old, mummy dick-sucking retards who fear change almost as much as death itself.

QUOTE

By Tuesday afternoon, the nation's biggest theater chains — AMC, Regal, Cinemark and Carmike — announced that they would not carry the “Crouching Tiger” sequel, which will be co-produced by TWC and Netflix, and begin streaming on August 28, 2015, the same day it is scheduled to hit theaters. Cineworld, Europe's number two theater chain and top IMAX operator, similarly announced its refusal to participate.

Go fuck yourselves.

Posted by Vince on Dec. 09 2014,09:28

Eh... I can't say I blame them. They're fighting an uphill battle, but stalling the inevitable might yield them more money than they'd make off of this movie. Kind of a catch 22, though. If this were the next Star Wars, all the theaters would still probably show them. However if this were the next Star Wars, the creators wouldn't let Netflix anywhere near it until they'd already sucked as much theater profit as possible out of it.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 09 2014,09:35

I don't look fondly upon dinosaurs keeping around their dinosaur biz models trying to squeeze cash from me. I want the latest and least shitty product. If these fucking stonewalling pricks aren't willing to let people pay to see movies anymore, they can go fuck themselves.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 09 2014,09:44

They're shooting themselves in the foot, but some people get off on that I guess. Although simultaneous release is actually not completely ideal, IMO.

I predict the future trend will be to release in theaters exactly one week before releasing on digital online streaming. That's the ideal window of time to give the theatrical release an eventful feeling and still build some excitement and get people to show up dressed in character and waiting in line for an hour to see the movie when it first opens and all that sort of thing that builds some marketing frenzy for the flick. But not so long that most people who don't want to go out to see it will be willing to wait the week instead of pirating it immediately (as long as they aren't the sort to just pirate it anyway, of course).

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 09 2014,10:13

(TPRJones @ Dec. 09 2014,12:44)

QUOTE

But, theaters don't make any money the first week. After the first week they get to keep some of the profits. I think they'd go out of business, with that movie/streaming release model.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 09 2014,10:45

Then their biz model is retarded. Not my fault.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Dec. 09 2014,10:50

Malcolm wins the argument. Their business model is retarded. I'll add, that if you disagree, then you are retarded as well.

Win = locked.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 09 2014,11:03

This was discussed in the Netflix thread a while back.

Stop condemning the theaters, and instead propose solutions.

Why keeps you from the theater?

For me:
-it's obviously inconvenient.
-high prices
-ads mixed in with the trailers (I don't mind the start time ads)
-other people (lots of stuff can go in here)

What gets you there?

Again, for me:
-Big screen
-Big sound
-Event movies
-The social aspect

So what needs to change to get you there more often?

-I'd like to see issues with people resolved faster.
-I'd like to see certain theaters equipped with cell jammers. (Not every theater at a location, but mark them separately like the 3D showings.)
-I'd like to see concession prices dropped to reasonable levels. I don't mind a markup, but 1000% is a bit much. Also, better options.
-I'd like to see theaters work with local businesses to tie in promotions. (EX: Buy 4 tickets to a movie and receive a free appetizer at a local restaurant.)

I also think Hollywood needs to pitch in a bit before they lose the box office. They take home the lion's share of the money, but it's in a system that could eventually make theaters obsolete. Would that be the end of Hollywood? Of course not, but it would be a huge negative on their marketing efforts. It'd kill social/event movies. Plus, how would they be able to track what works when their gauge no longer measures a few weekends in a row, but instead several years worth of random viewing on VOD? (An example here is that I never saw any LotR in the theaters. Instead, I bought the extended edition DVDs and watched them all in a weekend.)

Edit: I'm pretty tired of the "Their biz model is retarded. Not my problem. lulz" crap. Eventually, it will affect you, and if history is a guide, it'll be a negative change. Yes, their business model is broken, but what can fix it? Perhaps their isn't a fix and society has moved on, fine. However, I don't think it's productive to just flip a finger at anyone who mildly inconveniences you and tell them to fix their shit, yet offer nothing in the way of suggestions.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 09 2014,11:35

QUOTE

I also think Hollywood needs to pitch in a bit before they lose the box office. They take home the lion's share of the money, but it's in a system that could eventually make theaters obsolete.

Film distribution used to be part of the studio system that this country deemed a monopoly. Most studios chose to toss out their theatres and keep the other components. Anyhow...

That's another industry run by dinosaurs who need to stop clinging to the goddamn past.

QUOTE

Plus, how would they be able to track what works

Stop trying to predict what I'm going to like and just make fucking movies. If you only make the films most likely to be mega-profitable, they will be rehashed, retread, rebooted pieces of shit.

QUOTE

Eventually, it will affect you, and if history is a guide, it'll be a negative change.

I doubt it in this case. I don't have a local theatre I go to. Even if I did, I wouldn't be terrified of it closing.

QUOTE

Yes, their business model is broken, but what can fix it?

Some shit's a Pony Express and it can't be fixed. However, to start here, how about movie theatres that show fucking movies? If they're paying too much to the production companies, then start putting heat on them and make it public. Make the theatre a less shitty experience than watching it at home.

"We notice you're releasing this film on our screens the same day as it goes out on Netflix. We think it ought to be cheaper for us."

You can embrace stagnation and isolationism and have a crappy, dwindling profit line OR try something new. Everything except the best case in the second option leaves you without a real biz.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 09 2014,11:48

(GORDON @ Dec. 09 2014,12:13)

QUOTE

But, theaters don't make any money the first week.

I predict that will change as well. Also popcorn will get more expensive.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 09 2014,11:52

(Leisher @ Dec. 09 2014,13:03)

QUOTE

Stop condemning the theaters, and instead propose solutions.

Sometimes the people that make buggy whips go out of business.

Theaters use a business model built on the distribution of scarce resources, i.e. you can only see movies in theaters because there's no such thing as home viewing on demand. Times have changed and that business model will no longer work. They are condemned not by us but by the fact that the world changes and businesses must adapt or fail.

The thing I propose as likely above is less about saving the theaters and more about how distributors are likely to still give them that week in order to build hype. But no more than a week. Something else will have to save the theaters as a business model in the long run.

QUOTE

However, I don't think it's productive to just flip a finger at anyone who mildly inconveniences you and tell them to fix their shit, yet offer nothing in the way of suggestions.

Why is it my job to fix their broken business model? Are they going to pay me to do so?

Posted by Vince on Dec. 10 2014,03:21

I really don't think we're going to get megamillion dollar movies like what Marvel is doing if movies go straight to streaming the same time they're released. Not without paying through the nose for streaming it. But this is all a moot point anyway, as the theaters won't be the ones that stop this ultimately. It'll be the big movie producers. And honestly, this gimmick move on Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon 2 makes me think it's going to be about as good as a straight to video movie anyway.

I think the current business model is safe for a few more years.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 10 2014,06:36

QUOTE

I agree that Hollywood needs to change with the times as well, and they are slowly. However, their advantage over the theaters is they have more options to change their core business.

QUOTE

Stop trying to predict what I'm going to like and just make fucking movies.

You want to rephrase that because as it stands, it's kind of dumb. Any business wants to know what the market wants.

I say that despite the fact that I agree with you. I think the trend of only making movies that have to appeal to every group of people to maximize profits is hurting their overall business.

QUOTE

I doubt it in this case.

Then you're not seeing the big picture. Anyone else noticed how VOD prices have gone up? If theaters fail do you think Hollywood will stop and think, "Aw shucks, that money is gone." No, they'll figure out another way to get it.

You think Netflix prices are locked forever?

How about ISP prices?

QUOTE

Some shit's a Pony Express and it can't be fixed.

I covered that. "Perhaps their isn't a fix and society has moved on, fine."

QUOTE

However, to start here, how about movie theatres that show fucking movies?

You mention that you don't live near a theater, so let me assure you that they do indeed show movies. They even have special theaters for fucking movies.

QUOTE

If they're paying too much to the production companies, then start putting heat on them and make it public.

Pretty sure that's happened.

QUOTE

Make the theatre a less shitty experience than watching it at home.

They would say, "Thank you for your vague suggestion."

QUOTE

Sometimes the people that make buggy whips go out of business.

I covered that. "Perhaps their isn't a fix and society has moved on, fine."

QUOTE

Theaters use a business model built on the distribution of scarce resources, i.e. you can only see movies in theaters because there's no such thing as home viewing on demand. Times have changed and that business model will no longer work. They are condemned not by us but by the fact that the world changes and businesses must adapt or fail.

The thing I propose as likely above is less about saving the theaters and more about how distributors are likely to still give them that week in order to build hype. But no more than a week. Something else will have to save the theaters as a business model in the long run.

Yeah, but we've covered all that. What's the solution?

QUOTE

Why is it my job to fix their broken business model? Are they going to pay me to do so?

Come up with a real solution and someone would pay you.

Why do you fix fake spacecraft or dwarf fortresses and resolve issues there? You don't get paid. Just fun to discuss.

EDIT: I wrote all this yesterday afternoon before the site crashed. Anyway, I learned that Netflix does indeed use a ratings system. So your clicks and viewings help shows on Netflix.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 10 2014,07:28

QUOTE

Why do you fix fake spacecraft or dwarf fortresses and resolve issues there? You don't get paid. Just fun to discuss.

Sure, but you were saying that failure to talk solutions was angering you. Yet you don't get mad when I'm failing to play Minecraft.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 10 2014,07:30

(Vince @ Dec. 10 2014,05:21)

QUOTE

I really don't think we're going to get megamillion dollar movies like what Marvel is doing if movies go straight to streaming the same time they're released.

Probably not, no. At least not produced in the same way as before. It's not a very efficient way to turn money into movies anyway.

Something will replace it. There will be no shortage of good quality entertainment, I'm sure.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 10 2014,07:55

(TPRJones @ Dec. 10 2014,10:28)

QUOTE

Why do you fix fake spacecraft or dwarf fortresses and resolve issues there? You don't get paid. Just fun to discuss.

Sure, but you were saying that failure to talk solutions was angering you. Yet you don't get mad when I'm failing to play Minecraft.

I never said "angering". I'm just curious about this issue. I love movies. I love going to the theater, but even I don't go unless it's an event movie. I want there to be a resolution to this that doesn't involve theaters all going under and Netflix becoming a $50/month service.

I was just wondering if we discussed things anymore or just bitched about them. Perhaps this "Thunderdome" should be renamed "Shady Acres Retirement Community"?

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 10 2014,08:04

QUOTE

Make the theatre a less shitty experience than watching it at home.

Things going against the theatre ... some of which are their fault:
- other people
- shitty concessions marked up higher than airport beer
- shitty condition most cinemas are in
- adverts/previews I can't fast forward through
- employees that may charitably be described as "mentally retarded"

Specifics:

1) Keep an usher hanging inside the door to immediately tell people to stfu during the movie if they talk or their cell phone rings. The second time, kick those fuckers out. Third time, ban them for a year.

2) Keep your theatre clean. No gum, no sticky floors, no popcorn strewn about the floor. No overturned soda cups.

3) Revamp concessions. They suck. Period. The shit they put on popcorn looks like it came directly from the liquid waste disposal bin at a cut-rate liposuction clinic a la Fight Club.

4) Alcohol. Serve it, motherfuckers. If I walk into a cinema, I want a minimum of a good microbrew or Stoli greyhound.

5) Train your employees better. Any time I see a movie at the Mall of America, I'm astonished at how badly managed and run that place is.

Posted by Vince on Dec. 10 2014,08:04

(TPRJones @ Dec. 10 2014,09:30)

QUOTE

Something will replace it. There will be no shortage of good quality entertainment, I'm sure.

Not trying to sound like an old fogey here, but the percentage of decent original TV shows to broadcast hours has probably dropped considerably over the last 40 years. Technology has given us a lot of channels now and they fill them with something cheap to make but try to include enough trash to titillate.

Sometimes it feels like we're becoming Rome.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 10 2014,08:07

QUOTE

Sometimes it feels like we're becoming Rome.

Rome's national sport:

America's national sport:

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 10 2014,08:22

QUOTE

Things going against the theatre ... some of which are their fault:
- other people
- shitty concessions marked up higher than airport beer
- shitty condition most cinemas are in
- adverts/previews I can't fast forward through
- employees that may charitably be described as "mentally retarded"

Specifics:

1) Keep an usher hanging inside the door to immediately tell people to stfu during the movie if they talk or their cell phone rings. The second time, kick those fuckers out. Third time, ban them for a year.

2) Keep your theatre clean. No gum, no sticky floors, no popcorn strewn about the floor. No overturned soda cups.

3) Revamp concessions. They suck. Period. The shit they put on popcorn looks like it came directly from the liquid waste disposal bin at a cut-rate liposuction clinic a la Fight Club.

4) Alcohol. Serve it, motherfuckers. If I walk into a cinema, I want a minimum of a good microbrew or Stoli greyhound.

5) Train your employees better. Any time I see a movie at the Mall of America, I'm astonished at how badly managed and run that place is.

#1 - Agreed.
#2 - No brainer, the local ones here do a good job of that.
#3 - It's a joke. Want to charge more for food? Then it'd better be high quality food. A bottle of water shouldn't be $4 when that will buy a case of 24 bottles of that same water in that same size at the grocery store down the street.
#4 - Again, I agree. One of the greatest movie experiences I ever had was in Biloxi. I went to see Dances with Wolves with a group of people, including a girl I was seeing at the time. Despite the movie and fighting with her, I enjoyed my beer and pizza.
#5 - This applies to all of corporate America not named "Disney".

Who is your local theater owner? We have three major ones left (Franklin Park, Levis Commons, and Fallen Timbers) in the immediate area (Gordo, am I missing any?) and all are run by Cinemark. They bought them from Rave in the last two years. Rave had bought them about a year prior from Showcase Cinemas.

Showcase was running them into the ground. Rave kind of kept the status quo, but stepped it up slightly. Cinemark seems to be making bigger strides in improving the experience.

I might take a shot at emailing them about #4. They could easily convert a single theater at a location and do a test run. Hell, they already have a liquor license at the Franklin Park location.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 10 2014,08:29

(Vince @ Dec. 10 2014,10:04)

QUOTE

Not trying to sound like an old fogey here, but the percentage of decent original TV shows to broadcast hours has probably dropped considerably over the last 40 years.

That, you old fogey, is because the good entertainment is no longer on "TV" and hasn't been for a few years. The best writing and acting and characters and stories are found in web-distributed content now. They don't have the big budgets so they don't have the big explosions and fancy CGI - yet - but they've got the best entertainment quality.

QUOTE

I was just wondering if we discussed things anymore or just bitched about them.

Why can't it be both?

It is highly likely that there will continue to be movie theaters. There just won't be as many of them.

I suspect the movie theater that is also a restaurant and/or brewery (see < Alamo Draft House >) will become the dominant survivors of these changes.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 10 2014,08:47

QUOTE

Who is your local theater owner?

They might negotiate < their own shit. >

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 10 2014,10:59

QUOTE

That's just your opinion. You are correct that there's great web content out there, but I'm not throwing dirt on TV's face yet. Brooklyn Nine-Nine is awesome. Mike Tyson's Mysteries are hilarious. The Walking Dead is the best drama in eons. SHIELD has improved a ton. Etc.

The majority of TV is a vast wasteland of procedural crap and reality shows, but there are some gems.

On a side note, have they ever done a second season of that Penny Arcade artist search?

QUOTE

Why can't it be both?

It can! However, it wasn't...

QUOTE

It is highly likely that there will continue to be movie theaters. There just won't be as many of them.

I suspect the movie theater that is also a restaurant and/or brewery (see Alamo Draft House) will become the dominant survivors of these changes.

Cinemark has cleaned up all the local theaters both outside and inside. They've improved ways to get tickets. Made sound systems better. Improved seating. Built a new "experience" theater at the Franklin park location that is AWESOME. HUGE screen and each chair is like a lazy boy. Saw Godzilla there and wanted to see it again immediately based on the theater alone. Definitely will see Avengers 2 there if I can.

It's an event movie theater.

But yeah, if they want more ticket sales for indies, dramas, comedies, etc. they need to go the Alamo House style.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 10 2014,11:09

QUOTE

The majority of TV is a vast wasteland of procedural crap and reality shows, but there are some gems.

I shouldn't have said that there was nothing good on TV. That was hyperbole. This is more accurately stated.

I still say at this point broadcast TV is currently on the way out, though, in the same way that DVDs and broadcast radio stations are. Meaning it will always be around, but in ten years not very many people below retirement age will notice. In thirty years it will be as popular as VHS is today.

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 07 2015,18:51

Trailer in the link... got to say.. I am a little excited. Big fan of the first movie,

< http://nerdist.com/crouchi....trailer >

Posted by GORDON on Feb. 26 2016,21:38

Ok, first of all, ignore 90% of the previous posts in this thread. Off topic.

Secondly, Yay! Netflix.

And thirdly, this movie was 'ok.' It didn't meet the high bar of the original, but it tried. They didn't hit the artistically framed scenes, but you could tell when they were trying. The color mixing was off, frequently the "Green Destiny" was actually the Powder Blue Destiny. The fight scenes, again, didn't match the artistry of the original, but again, you could tell when they were trying.

It was worth watching if you were a fan of the original, or a fan of kung fu movies in general, but that's about it. otherwise, skip it.

Posted by GORDON on Feb. 28 2016,13:24

This site reviews the movie and says what I said except with more words.

< http://nerdist.com/review-....destiny >