Thunderdome 2015 » Printable Version of Topic

Forum: Games
Topic: Borderlands
started by: Malcolm

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 25 2009,10:42

My buddy bought this yesterday & we killed a few hours. So far, it's like a mixture of Fallout, Pitch Black, & Gauntlet w\ a Diablo-style weapon system (infinity different bonuses/attrs to worry about, tiered items, etc.)

You get to be one of four potential mercs, each w\ their own special trick (one's got a pet bird, the other can phase in & out, another's got a turret, etc.). You live in this shithole place called Planet Pandora, home to umpteen zillion kinds of nasty critters & some scattered patches of humanity. As "merc" implies, you're there to make cash off of it.

Far as the interface goes, it's pretty much Oblivion-like. There's a huge, huge emphasis on damage & killing, though. This ain't a game of defense. You get slots to carry 7-8 different kinds of ammo (each goes to a different class of gun). Everything drops ammo. Even the equivalent of a a rat drops 3 mags sometimes.

Overall, a rather fun beast so far. They seem to have gotten the difficulty just about proper, if a bit on the easy side every now & again. Didn't run into a spot where we were stonewalled, except one mission we tried to tackle which we knew was clearly out of our league, got smoked.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 25 2009,15:37

Apparently, there's upwards of 17 million unique guns available.

Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2009,11:38

Alrighty, about one-third of the way thru this. My buddy & I sat down to knock out a few quests at about 10pm. A few bullets & blinks of the eye later, it was fucking 4am. Last time I had game suck up that much time w\o me noticing, it was KotOR.

The good ...
- The gun/weapon system in this game is extremely deep & detailed -- literally millions of unique weapons.
- It's a trigger-happy combat system ... sure there's ducking for cover & finding a good place to snipe from, but the more ammo you're throwing into the air, generally the better off you are.
- You don't have to go back to town to sell shit. Stores take the form of vending machines that are placed at a few waypoints, in between civilization & the wasteland.
- No retarded, over-the-shoulder view, like Gears of War & others.

The bad ...
- The enemy AI isn't all that bright. It's pretty easy to pin them down in tactically unsound positions.
- The enemies aren't that varied. They mostly take the form of "bandits." Maybe we just haven't gotten far enough in yet, though. Still not even 50% done.
- Determining the relative power of guns -- shit, you'd need to sit down & take a couple days off if you'd like to give the definitive answer. There's dozens of attributes a gun needs to consider, coupled w\ the fact that each base type of gun has different strengths & weaknesses (rocket launchers compared to revolvers, for example).
- While it's entertaining w\ two folk, you can't help but think this was a game designed for four players. & if you ain't got four, there's subtle reminders of shit you're missing out on.

The ugly ...
- The skill system is disappointingly limited, especially compared to the amount of thought & energy that obviously went into weapons. On the upside, there's stations in-game where you can respec your skills if you get bored w\ your current layout.
- There's no mini-map on the screen. You need to switch to your menu to look at it.

Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 11 2009,10:29

More annoyance ...

Well, maybe this is just consoles in general, but, goddamn, this game is missing hotkeys for inventory items. You'd think there'd be an quick-use item button or something in the controller interface, though. Died about three times w\ five med pacs on me.

Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 22 2009,09:45

Getting close to the end. Has gotten way too easy. When/if a replay happens, it's time to jack up the difficulty to maximum. Said it before, but it bears repeating ... had Gearbox dropped as much energy on the critters/skills/quests systems as they did on the weapons, this game would be immortal. As it stands, it's just a pleasant, mindless distraction. Albeit an entertaining one.

Posted by Leisher on Nov. 25 2009,12:43

I've played this game on the X-Box 360 3 out of th3 last 4 Friday nights over at a cousin's house and I think it's a blast.

The controls suck, but I blame that on the X-Box controller. (This is available for PC and the superior mouse/keyboard combo.)

Other than that, it's a ton of fun. Great firefights.

Malcolm has a good point about the story, and the place is sort of a graveyard aside from enemies.

This game is fun for three reasons:
1. Co-op is a blast. (And yes, the difficulty is upped big time for each player you add.)
2. The hunt for the next great weapon is so captivating. You'll check the vendors every time without hesitation.
3. The bad guys aren't very varied, but they are awesome, and you'll know they're bad ass because they have names like "Bad Ass Psycho".
4. The gameplay is fun.

If we were able to organize more co-op nights, I would seriously push this one to enter our line up. Especially once it hits the bargain bins.

Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 30 2009,07:40

Finished the first playthru. The big boss was disappointing. However, started the second playthru to check what would happen. Same weapons, same cash, same characters, same levels. It appears that all the critters have been bumped up a notch or two. Something tells me it's relative to whatever level you start out as, but it's a nice touch. Definitely missed a few quests & the critters are starting to fight back.

By the by, every Eridian weapon I've found has sucked.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 19 2009,00:36

Halfway or so thru the second playthru. Holy fucking shit. Some of what used to be plebe critters are routinely knocking the living fuck out of our setup. The guns are doing a decent job trailing behind the mob strength. We can still pretty much destroy anything (particularly w\ our special skills maxed out), we just need to be careful.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 19 2009,11:32

Played a bit last night. We took down the Rakk Hive (awesome) and Taylor Kobb. Entering Old Haven to free the claptrap was one of the best firefights I've seen. We activated the transmitters and were told to kill Stella(?) when we shut down for the night at 4 a.m.

Not sure how close to the end we are?

Couple of notes:
-My cousin, whom I'm running through it with, DLed the new DLC and is checking it out right now. He just texted saying it's cool.
-Last night he came up with a great description of the game: "It's an FPS Diablo"
-Having so much fun with this game that I'm actually considering a purchase. This would be my first FPS for a console. Might trade in Assassin's Creed 2 so I can grab a pre-purchased copy cheap.
-This game was the first game ever made by it's developers. Impressive.
-This game, more than any other, highlights to me how badly developers need to link PC gamers and console players. I want to play this on my PC along with my cousin playing on his X-Box.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 19 2009,11:44

QUOTE

We took down the Rakk Hive (awesome)

I found that fight anti-climactic & too easy. I hear it is a fucking awesome XP gain, though. & since even boss critters respawn ...

QUOTE

and Taylor Kobb

He was kind of annoying.

QUOTE

Entering Old Haven to free the claptrap was one of the best firefights I've seen.

That place was INSANE the first time we went thru. We were badly, badly outgunned.

QUOTE

Stella(?)

I think Stella's the leader of the Crimson Lance (the dudes who overran Old Haven). They're trying to open the Vault, too. & shut y'all out.

QUOTE

Not sure how close to the end we are?

After the Rakk Hive, you'll need to get the fourth piece of the vault key, from Baron something or other. Brings lots of bullets. After that, they do a good job dragging out your trip to the vault. There'll be assloads more Lance soldiers before you're done. Depending upon how many sidequests you've done, I'd say you're approaching the final lap.

What characters did you pick?

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 21 2009,07:35

QUOTE

I found that fight anti-climactic & too easy.

Granted, it was easy, but it is pretty fantastic looking. It's like fighting a Bantha.

QUOTE

He was kind of annoying.

Was he the guy in the massive construction-like vehicle? It reminded me of the Jawas' vehicle. (Two Tatooine references in one post!)

I went toe to toe with him.

QUOTE

That place was INSANE the first time we went thru. We were badly, badly outgunned.

I cannot say enough about this level. It felt like we were in "Black Hawk Down".

QUOTE

After the Rakk Hive, you'll need to get the fourth piece of the vault key, from Baron something or other.

We beat Baron since we're on our way to fight Stella...right?

QUOTE

What characters did you pick?

He's playing a Hunter, and I'm going through as the Tank. The Tank matches my play style as I like to run right into the fray and get my hands dirty. We're both level 33.

I went out and got this for the X-Box 360 Saturday as we've got another guy joining us for online games, and I've already got a Hunter up to level 19.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 21 2009,07:57

QUOTE

Was he the guy in the massive construction-like vehicle? It reminded me of the Jawas' vehicle.

Taylor's the dude that you clean the bandits out of the one town for, then it turns out he's as much of a bastard as they were, so you go clean him out. The Baron lives in the big construction vehicle.

QUOTE

We beat Baron since we're on our way to fight Stella...right?

There's some grumblings about Stella for a bit, even before you assemble the key. You won't be able to get anywhere near her w\o all four pieces, thus, yeah, you'll've to see the Baron.

Hunter & Tank? Interesting. I'm going Solider & my buddy goes Siren. His ability to go invisible makes my life a living hell sometimes (since every critter then targets ME), but I've got heavier guns. My combat rifle's good at a distance. My shotgun is pure death at close range. What'd be interesting is the Hunter & Soldier -- Bloodwing & the Scorpio turret (respectively) almost function as pets & can peg things at a distance. The Siren & Tank need to be up close & personal to start killing.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 21 2009,08:16

He's got a level 42 Siren, but we haven't used her as she's so far ahead in levels.

Our Hunter/Tank combo isn't bad. When facing turrets or similar threats, he runs a touch ahead and draws fire so my Tank can hit them with his Rocket Launcher. For everything else, I'm on point and he's at a distance behind sniping.

I ended up face to face with the Baron way up one of the sides of his machine. My partner had fallen down somewhere and was effectively out of the battle. The Baron has that sweet ass Boom Stick that corrodes the hell out of you and I had just used my melee on some other badies. Thus, I just keep hitting him with the butt of my shotgun to keep him from shooting me while keep putting rounds into his chest. Now I use his Boom Stick when we face armor wearing foes.

I'm digging playing the Hunter too. It's a different play style coming at everyone from a distance and picking them off. The Bloodwing is awesome. Not as fun as the Tank's rampage, but is still a game changer. Can't wait until I can have it attack up to 8 enemies.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 21 2009,08:47

Wait till the second playthru when the enemies get ramped up. We've yet to hit the Baron on the second time around. That fight is going to be big. Hell, Old Haven will be quite a trip.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 21 2009,12:14

Going through solo to level up my Hunter has been interesting.

I die a lot. I'm used to the damage my tank can take, and when he's in "Fight for your life" mode, he can last around a minute to try and kill someone for the "second wind". He rarely dies.

My hunter lasts all of 6 seconds.

Posted by WSGrundy on Dec. 21 2009,13:24

There are 4 different classes right? Can you have multiple tanks in the same game? Can you have more then 4 people in multiplayer?

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 22 2009,08:07

4 different classes: Siren, Hunter, Berserker, and Soldier.

However...each class has three sub-classes as well.

For example, the Berserker can focus on Tank (taking tons of damage), Brawler (melee fighting), or...I'm forgetting the actual name, but it's all about blowing things up (Rocket Launchers, grenades, etc.).

So yes, you can all play as the same class and even sub-classes. 4 tanks in the game would be interesting. There would be areas where it'd be unstoppable, and other areas where it might handicap you.

4 people in the max in multi. Although, the more people you have playing, the more enemies and loot you'll see.

Killed Sledge last night in my solo run. Sledge versus a Hunter isn't exactly fair. I killed him just as I was about to respawn.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 22 2009,10:09

Eh, there aren't really "subclasses" so to speak; there's a skill tree w\ three different paths. You can mix & match to a certain extent. It's not an "all or nothing" deal.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 22 2009,11:14

Eh back at ya.

The fact that you have to spend points in skills in a particular tree to get deeper within that tree says to me that those are sub-classes. The fact that they have names helps too.

Granted, eventually you could have a character who has all three trees maxed out, but not in a single playthrough.

One thing that I didn't notice for the first few playthroughs (when I first started) was the additional challenges for your character that encourage different playstyles and weapon usage. You find these on the mission screen.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 22 2009,20:41

(Leisher @ Dec. 22 2009,13:14)

QUOTE

Granted, eventually you could have a character who has all three trees maxed out, but not in a single playthrough.

Thought levels & skillpoints got maxxed out at 50.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 22 2009,21:43

I haven't made it to level 50 yet. No clue.

With the one expansion out and another coming, I'd bet those restrictions get lifted.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 23 2009,08:52

< Skill calculator >. You can also respec your skills for a small in-game cash fee ("in-game" as in-game cash -- this ain't WoW). Skill calc goes to fifty. That's enough to fill up two trees (if you take straight paths to their ends) & explore the first level (of four) of another. Also, if you've got an item that boosts a skill, you don't get that benefit unless you've paid at least one point in yourself. Every fucking class mod I find is 1:3 skills I have versus skills I don't.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 23 2009,08:55

On another note, Leish, how many different types of guns do you typically use? I'm a paranoid mofo, even w\ ammo regen, so I've got one of each. I typically stick to combat rifle, shotty, sniper, repeater/SMG (something w\ an insane refire rate) in my quick slots, though.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 23 2009,12:42

I knew about the other stuff, just not the cap.

With my tank, it's all about the shotguns. I've got 1-2 favorites on me at all times, an SMG, a sniper rifle (for fun), and a rocket launcher. I rarely use pistols with him, as if I'm that close, it's punching time.

With my Hunter, it's a much different story. I've been working on some of the easier challenges to push up his XP, like getting 50 kills with the different weapons. However, when all is said and done, I know he'll have 1-2 sniper rifles, an SMG, and probably an exploding revolver.

I just moved to the Highlands last night after doing everything possible in Fyrestone.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 23 2009,12:59

Find any Eridian weapons? Are they as shitty as in my playthru? For a highly advanced alien race, they had lame guns.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 23 2009,13:30

I've found two:
-The 011001 cannon (or whatever number it is...I think it's a Family Guy reference from the Helen Kellar display at that museum). Which did decent damage, but was impossible to aim over distance, and was sloooooooooooooooow. Not in terms of reloading or recharging, but how fast the projectiles traveled. You'd have to be blind and lose both legs in order to be hit by it.
-The Thunder Stick(?)...I know I'm messing up this name. It was a rapid fire gun that carpet bombed the entire area with electricity. The purpose being to drop everyone's shields.

I haven't been impressed with them either.

Hey, how is Skagzilla in the second go around?

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 24 2009,00:02

QUOTE

[Hey, how is Skagzilla in the second go around

Less painful than you'd imagine, all things considered. Second go-thru is kind of fucked up. Fireants kicking our ass unless we're careful. Motthrak was a billion times easier.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 24 2009,19:59

I just found an Eridian sniper rifle that isn't bad. Uses up its ammo too quickly though.

Skagzilla was tough for us the first time. We depleted our ammo and beat it to death.

In my solo play through he was easy.

Mothrakk was simple. I went under the nearby car depot and would come out to shoot, and head back in when it dropped its bombs. It barely hit me.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Dec. 26 2009,02:01

How long is the game? How good is the replay value?

My kid bought a copy for himself and me for Christmas. We'be been playing for about 6-7 hours now. Just curious if we are burning through it too quickly and the fun will be over soon.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 26 2009,20:00

Like I stated earlier, it's Diablo as an FPS.

There's a "I'd do one more mission before I go to bed" feel to it.

I've been playing weeks and I'm not burned out yet.

Haven't even made it to the second playthrough yet where the difficulty goes WAY up.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 27 2009,11:58

(Leisher @ Dec. 26 2009,22:00)

QUOTE

I wonder if it scales enemy levels for according to your own or if it's a set increase. We finished at about level 34 & the enemies in the second playthru started at 35-40.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 27 2009,19:04

Yeah, I think it does.

If the host is a high level and a low level person joins, you don't see low level monsters.

I was level 22 and hosting the other night for someone starting a new character. He couldn't do any damage to the bad guys at all.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 27 2009,23:31

Buddy & I both cracked 50 tonight on the 2nd playthru. We'll see what the cap is next time after about one or two quests, tops.

Seeing as how the cash just flows in, figured I may as well use it on guns since your deaths cost you proportional to your cash on hand.

Found some shotty called the Hydra. Horizontal, 5-shot spread. Can take the heads off most maniacs in one shot. Bought some weird-ass repeater that looks like a futuristic evolution of a Luger. May as well be a machine pistol. The best find was a god-like (for the moment) combat rifle. About the only thing it's missing is a scope. My turret's doing unreal corrosive damage now. Fires out missiles & supply crates every couple seconds. Buddy found an SMG that essentially fires a stream of lead. We're still getting clocked a lot because offense in this game trumps defense, but more & more of the plebe mobs are getting shotties & launchers to punch thru any shield + health combo we can find.

Also, the earning cash achievement is broken for me in co-op. I'm permanently stuck at earning -60K in cash.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 28 2009,06:24

I hit level 34 after killing Baron Flynt last night.

I like how my Hunter is coming along. I've gone down the sniper path and can drop most anything from a distance with ease. If they do get close I've got a nice combat rifle I use. I even carry the Baron's Boom Stick now for the really frustrating armored folks.

Now I need to level my Bloodwing. I've heard of it being able to hit 5-8 enemies and have the ability to cause "loot explosions" when killing folks. So much loot that you just don't have time to sort through it all.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 28 2009,10:22

I think I'm taking Hunter next time if I get the chance. Want to see if the Scorpio turret beats Bloodwing for killing potential. My turret does more damage per shot than I do. W\ a quicker fire rate. It's spectacular for blocking strategic gates, doors, hallways, etc. & it resupplies my grenades. I normally toss about half a dozen to soften up groups before using the assault rifle or shotty to blast them.

Also found the 4th (I think) ammo upgrade. Ammo regen, loads of looted mags, & my carrying around one of every gun type means I didn't have to worry about that much in the first place, but the issue of whether or not I'll run out of bullets isn't even feasible now.

Posted by Leisher on Jan. 01 2010,11:35

I've seen two lvl 40ish Hunters...

The first is my cousin's and he went the Bloodwing route. That damn thing steals all the kills. he barely needs to fire a shot. It's impressive to watch.

The other is mine and I went the sniper route. I do massive damage from a distance, plus with my bloodwing, incendiary rifle, and sniper mod that regens ammo I'm pretty much a self-sufficient war machine.

Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 01 2010,13:21

(Leisher @ Jan. 01 2010,13:35)

QUOTE

...he went the Bloodwing route. That damn thing steals all the kills. he barely needs to fire a shot. It's impressive to watch.

The only drag about the turret is its limited range. You need to drop it fairly close to be effective. If you could somehow control the turret until destruction instead of it being an AI-controlled, time limited thing, it'd be 10x more useful.

Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 04 2010,12:36

Beat the 2nd playthru. Seemed to be no option for a 3rd. & the level cap is confirmed at a hard 50. Maybe some expansion or some shyte will remove the cap. I bet the PC version gets a crack or unofficial patch. Damn console games.

Posted by Leisher on Jan. 05 2010,05:17

Hmm, I thought I heard there was a third playthrough and everything was lvl 50...?

I'm halfway through the 2nd playthrough.

Oh, and Borderworlds will be the name of the sequel.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 02 2010,11:15

Downloaded & finished one of the DLCs -- the Zombie Island of Doctor Ned. Not bad. It's like Borderlands does L4D. Shitloads of undead, although they're the old-skool slow, shambling types more than the speedy ones.

There's a few types ...

1) standard zombie
2) suicide zombie -- rushes you & explodes
3) tankenstein -- big & tosses exploding barrels at you
4) defiler -- spews goo on you, slowing you

The soldier's turret was devastating, particularly after I attached a fire artifact to it. If your weapons don't have a decent ammo regen, you'd probably run out pretty quick in a few swarms that seemed to last forever. There's also a town called Dead Haven. While it's not the all-out war that Old Haven is, it was probably the most challenging part. That being said, it wasn't all that tough. Granted, we had essentially unlimited ammo & some bad-ass guns, but I expected more difficulty.

Oh yeah, during playthrough 2.5, Old Haven is beyond brutal.

Posted by Leisher on Feb. 02 2010,11:28

2.5?

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 02 2010,12:25

(Leisher @ Feb. 02 2010,13:28)

QUOTE

2.5?

The unofficial name for what happens after the second playthrough. No quests are reset or anything, but the enemies level up.

Old Haven has SuperBadAss Lance members that are fucking tanks. & those are just the technicians. The commanders are worse.

Posted by Leisher on Feb. 02 2010,12:53

I can't wait for Borderworlds.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 02 2010,13:36

(Leisher @ Feb. 02 2010,14:53)

QUOTE

I can't wait for Borderworlds.

Needs more ...

i) critters
ii) vehicles

It'd also be cool if the bounty boards continuously generated missions (think Privateer-style). Shops having more inventory that just 8 or 9 guns at a time would be nice, too.

Posted by Leisher on Feb. 02 2010,21:01

QUOTE

i) critters

Agreed, they could use more variety.

QUOTE

ii) vehicles

This I'll agree with IF they fix the driving. That's the worst part of the game.

QUOTE

It'd also be cool if the bounty boards continuously generated missions (think Privateer-style).

Since the game is essentially Diablo as an FPS, I'd agree.

QUOTE

Shops having more inventory that just 8 or 9 guns at a time would be nice, too.

This I don't really care about. I rarely bought weapons from vendors.

Hey, did you ever see the "hidden" vendor machine in New Haven? Right across from the broken and working gun machine? We just happened to notice it one time. When I say one time, I mean it has never appeared since, and all it sold were gold weapons. (Those are the rarest ones, right?)

The most expensive thing I've seen at a vendor was a rocket launcher for 4.5 million.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 03 2010,11:12

QUOTE

This I'll agree with IF they fix the driving. That's the worst part of the game.

Yeah, the driving sucks, but I've gotten semi-used to it. If I spent more time in the car, I'd probably complain more. I do 99.9999999% of the driving when my buddy & I play any FPS -- Halo, Gears of War, etc., & he works the turret.

QUOTE

Hey, did you ever see the "hidden" vendor machine in New Haven? Right across from the broken and working gun machine? We just happened to notice it one time. When I say one time, I mean it has never appeared since, and all it sold were gold weapons.

I dunno about hidden. It's behind a door that's closed every now & again. It comes up about every third time for us.

QUOTE

(Those are the rarest ones, right?)

I pay attention to the weapon stats & the colours don't add up. If gold's supposed to be the "best", it ought to have better fire rates, reload rates, damage per shot, spread, etc. than others. I've got green & blue combat rifles that beat the everloving fuck out of every gold combat rifle I've found. I'm still trying to figure out what the weapon colours mean, but I can't find a direct, consistent correlation to quality.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 27 2010,01:48

New DLC is out. It's "The Secret Armory of General Knoxx." He's apparently Stella's boss from the original. My buddy got it this week & we tried it out. A few things ...

1) There's at least one new vehicle, maybe more.
2) Level cap is now 60, I think.
3) Pearlescent weapons have been introduced. They're rarer than orange.
4) New enemies
5) Lots of new quests (more than "Dr. Ned's Zombie Island" -- which we finished in one evening).

The Atlas army enemies are bitchy as all hell. There was a point where 2-3 of their snipers killed both of us at least six times each in a row. Supposedly more & better guns, but so far the drops have been worse than shitty. I wouldn't mind this except for a couple thoughts :

1) Better guns would make it a lot easier to drill the new enemies (who've got the nasty habit of respawning infinitely in certain cases or instantly teleporting near your location to jump you from behind w\ no warning from your radar)

2) New enemies have been hitting hard & often. The roadblocks we took down tonight were each like mini-Old Havens on steroids. The Lance dudes punch through our shields & health extremely well.

Our weapons seem comparably shitty to theirs. Three rockets from one of them will kill either of us. Twenty rockets from me might get one of the tougher ones down to around half. Their guns just seem to be more powerful than the ones we've got -- until we go to loot them. The drops they give are hands-down worse than our current loadout. How do NPCs do more damage to us (presumably the heroes are more bad-ass than a grunt) w\ seemingly craptacular weapons? If a sniper's killed me ten times running w\ his static rifle, it'd better be the fucking hammer of Thor, & I want it available for loot.

Driving hasn't gotten much better. You can get a heavier vehicle this time, w\ heat-seeking missiles. You may as well throw paper airplanes at your targets, though, for how effective they are. They track just fine; they just don't do the sort of damage you'd expect from a guided anti-tank weapon. It takes a least a dozen or so individual missiles to kill an Atlas army grunt. Rockets from enemy vehicles demolish my car in short order. My rockets barely dent them. It takes LOTS to bring down a bandit patrol.

Also, when I'm in a car that's got eight wheels & has to weigh at least 3 tons, I have assloads of momentum when I'm going 30mph. That means I should be able to crash through a pile of loose debris, NOT get stopped dead in my tracks.

Last in this category & somewhat related, let's talk about colliding w\ living things. If you're driving on a dark road & you hit a deer dead-on at top speed, it's probably going to sustain significant injuries. Let's scale that down to a human-sized victim. If a minivan hits a person at 30mph, that person is dead, period, outright, 99.99% of the time. Your auto might take a bit of pain, but the organic being is sure as fuck getting the short end of the equation. Not in Borderlands. I've run over level 51 humans & not only have they survived the hit, they've taken perhaps 1/3 of their total health as damage & aren't fazed in the least. What's more, my VEHICLE has blown up. If you saw a semi hit a dude on the road, you wouldn't expect the truck to explode & the pedestrian to walk away.

There's some SERIOUS gameplay issues in terms of the logic of the violence. Unless you're the Hulk, three rockets dead-on to your unprotected chest should blow you apart. You sure as shit should at least stumble or something. You shouldn't be returning fire immediately.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 01 2010,12:56

That still makes me want to play it.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 01 2010,13:53

(Leisher @ Mar. 01 2010,14:56)

QUOTE

That still makes me want to play it.

It's still worth the $8 or whatever. & to be fair, the physics/violence problems I mentioned were present in the original. But it's still a fucked up world where one shot from my sniper rifle or burst fire from my assault rifle is 10x as effective as a trio of rockets.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 06 2010,12:55

Hmm, the board ate this post the first time around ...

Found some new guns this past week. I used to walk with ...

1 assault rifle (default weapon)
1 rocket launcher (for big, slow things)
1 shotgun (for point blank range)
1 sniper rifle (for long range)

I've found a single combat rifle that's pretty much replaced all four of them now with the semi-drag that it's got a relatively small mag size -- only about a dozen shots. My skills that up that stat make it well worthwhile, though. It's got a scope, hits hard, has respectable refire & accuracy rates, & causes explosive damage. I now walk around with that as well as another rifle that hits insanely hard but fires slowly.

The final boss of General Knoxx's Armory apparently has a chance to drop the best gear you'll find thus far.

Anyhow, now that I've found bigger guns, I'm dying a lot less. I'd been playing without a scoped weapon for a long-ass time. Makes me wonder how the hell I got along without one. Bought a skill respec that made a huge difference, too.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 06 2010,14:01

My cousin discovered a glitch in the game that allows you to fill every skill tree. If you do a google search for it, you'll find it.

I'm not a fan of cheats, but he did it before I got there, and honestly, you essentially already max out two skill trees, and the skills you leave open are pretty pointless (like Brick's spawn cash when punching skill). Thus, it didn't bug me too much.

A warning though, we were going to play through the new DLC last night, but he did this glitch to our characters and glitched their missions by mistake. Thus, they couldn't advance the story. He finally got them fixed today, yes it's fixable, but we won't be playing the new DLC until next weekend.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2010,10:19

Beat the Secret Armory of General Knoxx last night. A few items ...

QUOTE

The final boss of General Knoxx's Armory apparently has a chance to drop the best gear you'll find thus far.

1) The final boss doesn't drop the best loot. In fact, he dropped shyte loot. There is, however, a critter in a sidequest that goes by the name of Crawmerax the Invincible. While he isn't, he is impervious to damage except by critical hit. He's also got a tiny army of minions to fuck with you and each requires a specific damage type to waste. There is a cheap, bastard solution to the problem, though. One assumes the designers put it in there intentionally, but it's just such a gaping bug/feature that I can't believe they intended it. Just check it & see. He did drop assloads of orange/purple weapons, though. Easily more than could be carried by two players. Fortunately, there's a set of shops nearby. I suspect Crawmerax is NOT respawnable or rekillable (they go to a bit of length to make sure) as you could farm him for uber items ad infinitum.

2) I cannot overemphasize the ass-whoopingness of proper elemental damage. By the end of the game, I was hauling around 3 asasult rifles (1 explosion, 1 fire, 1 shock) just because of the specialized Lance troops that I'd encounter.

3) Speaking of the Lance troops, if one believes the damage I was doing to them, I took down a Badass Defender with at least ten headshots, if not more, to the tune of about 2500 damage per shot. If you totaled my shield & health, I've got maybe 3500 points of damage before I get dusted. Not only are the enemies tougher than you, they can snipe from half a mile away with any weapon -- shotguns, revolvers, pistols, whatever. They can also withstand a dozen headshots from a rocket launcher.

4) Still a lack of critters. There's some skags, but the vast majority of encounters were with Lance troopers (who now come in three additional flavours -- corrosive, pyro, & shock). The Lance Rocketeers were annoying as all hell. Maybe I just felt that way because I wanted one of their rocket packs (which is impossible, by the by). Also, if you wander around in the desert enough, you'll be greeted by building-sized, four-legged spider-like things called drifters which are apparently part Mexican jumping bean & can change their trajectories in mid-air. They will one-hit kill you if they land on you. They'll also blow the fuck out of your car with acidic spew if you try to take them at range.

5) There's pretty much nowhere to use the instant travel option. There'll be lots of driving. You do get a choice of three vehicles (speedy, tank-ish, in between), though. However, you'll be driving mainly through four screens' worth of highway (with about 4 manned Lance roadblocks each) inhabited by infinitely spawning flying patrol robots who'll track you through the entire area & also Crimson Lance APC-lookin' things (that can one- or two-hit kill the speedy car with their main gun). I mention that because the non-speedy cars are so fucking slow as to be virtually worthless. The extra firepower & protection they provide is about as much of an upgrade as going from a Yugo to a Chevette. Skip the heavier weapons & armor, go for the speedy, save yourself about an hour or more of total driving time.

6) There's an endurance challenge called the Circle of Duty. You versus multiple waves of Crimson Lance troops, specialists, rocketeers, & vehicles in a closed arena. We've made it past the first two rounds after a few tries. A spot of strategy is required.

7) Found ZERO pearlescent weapons, which are supposed to be the best kind. I assume they're white; that's also the colour of the shittiest weapons. Spectacular move there, chaps.

8) During the end sequence, two major events happen in quick succession (won't spoil it). For the life of me, I couldn't figure out why they have to happen a few minutes apart. There's no logical reason you couldn't perform Action 1, take more time than two or three minutes, & then have Action 2 kick off. Seems like a deliberate attempt on the part of the designers to screw you out of some reward.

9) Level cap is now 61.

Overall, it's worth the below $10 pricetag because of the new vehicles, Crawmerax's loot drop, & initial shock you receive when you get your ass beat down at a Lance roadblock the first time. & unless you plan your quests very carefully, you'll be spending at least a third of your time driving. & driving hasn't gotten any better.

Think I might convince my buddy to grab the Underdome DLC, as it's the last one remaining we've not played.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 22 2010,12:14

QUOTE

Got a chance to play through this a bit two weekends ago, and found the path to Crawmerax open. We fought him, my cousin with his lvl 61 chick (what class is she?) and me with my lvl 42 Brick. I was worthless in the fight in terms of damage, but was invaluable for teamwork. He'd run to the left, and there's a small ledge you can sit on and not get hit...most of the time...however, Crawmerax won't move around for you to hit him in his weak points. Thus, I'd move behind him and hit him with rockets. No damage, but it did move him around.

Also, not sure if it's because of the glitch he used, but we simply left the level and came back to fir Crawmerax respawned. It also left behind the loot he dropped when he died previously. After killing him 5-6 times, you can imagine the loot we had onscreen. Easily 100+ items just laying on the ground, and not a single pearlescent item.

QUOTE

2) I cannot overemphasize the ass-whoopingness of proper elemental damage. By the end of the game, I was hauling around 3 asasult rifles (1 explosion, 1 fire, 1 shock) just because of the specialized Lance troops that I'd encounter.

I'm not a huge fan of this in any game. I have no desire to carry around multiple types of the same weapon and then go into my inventory for the right one every time I encounter an enemy. Fine, allow my fire weapon to do more damage to certain enemies and less to others, but I should NEVER face an enemy that's invulnerable to my weapons. I mean, even if I'm shooting a fire based creature with a flaming bullet, there's still a bullet in there...

QUOTE

3) Speaking of the Lance troops, if one believes the damage I was doing to them, I took down a Badass Defender with at least ten headshots, if not more, to the tune of about 2500 damage per shot. If you totaled my shield & health, I've got maybe 3500 points of damage before I get dusted. Not only are the enemies tougher than you, they can snipe from half a mile away with any weapon -- shotguns, revolvers, pistols, whatever. They can also withstand a dozen headshots from a rocket launcher.

That's insanity. I expect that's more a result of rushing out the expansions rather than properly play testing them. I expect we'll see less of this in the next game.

QUOTE

Also, if you wander around in the desert enough, you'll be greeted by building-sized, four-legged spider-like things called drifters which are apparently part Mexican jumping bean & can change their trajectories in mid-air. They will one-hit kill you if they land on you. They'll also blow the fuck out of your car with acidic spew if you try to take them at range.

Can you kill them?

5 - The driving is nothing more than point a to point b stuff and should be treated as such. Definitely something they need to address in Borderworlds.

6- Didn't see that, sounds cool.

7- I guess you can clone them online, ala the early days of UO. My cousin has around 8-10 of them. He has only found 1 while playing.

Borderworlds has made my top ten list of most awaited games.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2010,12:45

QUOTE

my cousin with his lvl 61 chick (what class is she?)

That's the siren. Her greatest asset is the ability to go invisible. When my buddy pulls that, all the critters in the local area start targeting me...

QUOTE

I mean, even if I'm shooting a fire based creature with a flaming bullet, there's still a bullet in there

My turret (which normally mows down damn near anything w\ all the boosts I've got for it), does almost no damage if it's shooting the wrong kind of Lance Troop. The fire artifact makes it worthless for pyros, for example. But the corrosive/fire against unshielded opponents is becoming more than a luxury. They take an entire magazine to kill otherwise (& my mags have 100+ rounds).

QUOTE

That's insanity. I expect that's more a result of rushing out the expansions rather than properly play testing them. I expect we'll see less of this in the next game.

They're not invulnerable by any means. Their shields (with a few exceptions) seem weak. Their health is off the charts.

QUOTE

Can you kill them?

Yeah, for decent XP & loot, to boot.. They've got some glowing parts on them & they're where you can crit them. Problem is that it's hard to hit them unless you're standing under them or within their jumping range. You can drop them w\o using crits, but they quickly become bullet sponges. Talking on the order of hundreds of rounds to bring them down. You can drive right under them, though.

Looking semi-forward to hitting the Circle of Duty to test out my new guns. The sniper I found does about 1100 damage per hit w\ a ridiculous zoom. Got a combat rifle that hits in the upper 200s at a fire rate of 15, 86 in the mag which gets upped to ~130 total after all is said & done.

Oh yeah, & a word about the Badass Lance Royal Guards -- I was in a vehicle going top speed trying to run one down. Vehicle was brand new. I ran into him and ~~the sickening amount of kinetic energy I had turned him into a thin red paste~~ my vehicle blew up. Honestly, wtf? I have a fucking car. Any vehicle that runs over me is a one-hit kill, bar none, end of story, no takesies-backsies. I might even hear an argument for the car taking nontrivial damage, but the humanoid I pointed it towards should be dead most certainly.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 22 2010,20:28

I agree with the vehicles thing. They already nerfed the weapons on them and ridiculously lower your XP gains when killing something in one, so why not let them kill folks like normal?

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 25 2010,08:57

QUOTE

I suspect Crawmerax is NOT respawnable or rekillable (they go to a bit of length to make sure) as you could farm him for uber items ad infinitum.

Scratch that. He's respawns right after you leave the area. We had the quest completed, but not turned in. Will try next time & see if we can still transition to his lair.

The loot he drops is ... a mixed bag. He dropped mainly purple & blue items with a few oranges, several greens, & ZERO fucking pearlescent weapons (which are apparently fucking cyan). I picked up probably fifteen different combat rifles that were an upgrade from what I had (which was considerable to begin with). I've got a rifle weird a weird feature/bug, though. When I look through the scope & shoot, it's fully automatic. When I shoot it without looking through the scope, it's strictly a three-shot burst.

Oh, & fuck what the game says about devastators. Explosive damage doesn't hit them as hard as corrosive. I was mowing them down left & right with the aforementioned rifle.

Beat the third & fourth (of five) levels of the Circle of Duty. The vehicles are stupid & get hung up at one corner of the map. They're virtually a non-factor. We were doing fine on the fifth level until one wave spawned on the platform we were holding, effectively dropping half a dozen Lance troops behind us. After we took them out, some rocketeers showed up.

They are a complete fucking nightmare in the circle because there's absolutely no cover. And whereas the other enemies in there tend to lay back & move up slowly, the rocketeers just fly all over the goddamned sky all the time. The normal ones aren't a problem; the Badass Rocketeers present problems due to their INSANE amount of health.

Anyhow, we scatter to take them out, more Lance troops spawn on our platform. As we get halfway through them, another wave spawns in the corner & starts sniping. My buddy goes over to finish them off while I take on the remaining half of the previous wave. As I kill the last one in my vicinity, a group of rocketeers spawns damn near on top of me & it's over. If any party member dies in the circle, you get to start again.

Oh, and FUCK the Lance Royal Guards.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 27 2010,00:24

Was over at my buddy's place. We decided to get ourselves a pearlescent item, damnit. Must have killed Crawmerax twenty times. Dropped enough gear so that the frame rates slowed to about one-half normal.

Fucking shitty news : we got zero pearlescent drops. Frustrating as all hell. Come on. Not one out of the hundreds, if not thousands, of items I saw tonight. The percentage chance for a pearlescent drop is certainly single digits, almost certainly less than 1%, quite conceivably just a few hundredths or less. It's definitely not the 1 pearlescent : 66 orange ratio I saw quoted somewhere.

Good news : on the whole, Crawmerax drops loads of respectable combat rifles & sniper rifles. He also drops a lot of shit pistols, SMGs, Eridian weapons, the occasional 2000+ shield, plenty of mods, and a sprinkling of artifacts. He's also the enemy to level up your combat skills. I'm now at least 20 in all of them.

Better news : I went through over ten combat rifles tonight. As in I said, "There's no way I'm finding a better rifle. This is it for this expansion." And every time I was wrong. I got some solid fire, corrosive, & shock rifles (necessary for fending off Crawmerax's fucking greebles). I was floored at the non-elemental rifles I got. I went from being unable to solo standard Lance troops to decimating them in twos & threes. The difference is night & fucking day. Normal rocketeers are like wheat before the scythe. Unless I need lots of zoom, I don't even use a sniper rifle anymore. I walked around with that rifle, a sickeningly fast Stinger SMG, a quick fire/reload Liquid sniper, & an absolute beast of a shotgun called the Desert Bulldog.

Best news : we finished the Circle of Duty's fifth battle. The Circle was easily the most challenging & fun side mission. I'd love to try to do it straight through with a four-player, level 61 team without dying.

I'm hoping Gearbox will find someway to transfer old Borderlands characters to Borderworlds.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 02 2010,00:11

Borderlands is on sale on Steam.

$25 for 1
$75 for a 4 pack

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 12 2010,14:01

Could be getting the Underdome tonight.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 13 2010,11:04

Underdome is had.

Cool things : Each player has a bank that stores up to 42 additional items. Especially good if you hit up Crawmerax so you can stow the good items & not have them eat up valuable inventory slots.

So far ...
Looks like it's Thunderdome-esque in that you go against a shitload of enemies in a to-the-death, round-by-round kind of thing.

There's 3 battlefields. The first time around, you'll face 5 rounds of 5 waves each. The waves always have set themes & they always come in the same order (starter, gun, horde, bad-ass, boss). The last wave is always a boss (like Nine-Toes, Krom, Taylor Kolb, etc.). The prizes are somewhat shitty.

The second go-thru of the three battlefields looks to extend things to 20 rounds. That's 100 waves total x 3 battlefields = 300 waves. We beat the first go-thru.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 13 2010,11:33

Sounds cool.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 13 2010,11:50

Still am itching to get together 4 level 61s (one of each class) & take on one of those battle circles/tournaments.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2010,08:43

Forgot to mention -- there's a randomizer in the Underdome. After the first round, you start getting one random wildcard effect. Possibilities...

A particular gun type might be selected for the upcoming fight. That type will do standard or better damage while everything else sucks.

Reduce accuracy while boosting damage for everyone.

Reduce effects of gravity.

Enemies are more likely to dodge.

Enemies move more quickly & erratically.

By round 5, we were getting 2 random effects with two people. Not sure how that translates if you've got 3 or 4 players or one of the 20-round marathons.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 14 2010,10:44

I think I'll try to get a session going this weekend.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2010,12:17

By the by, the bank upgrade to 42 items costs about 9 mil. That shouldn't even be an issue if you drop Crawmerax once & loot about 5 of the 50 items he drops.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 19 2010,17:52

Finished one of the 20 round marathons. Holy fucking shit. It took about four hours. Were the two of us slightly more coordinated, we could've done better. A few things ...

1) 20 rounds x 5 waves each = 100 waves in total. The least they could do is minimize the time between waves to speed shit up. But you have to listen to Moxxi's repetitive dialogue. 20 rounds is way too long. 10 would've been fine.

2) Shit gradually gets harder as things go on. Every 5th round is a boss round. Every round means your enemies get better bonuses (they naturally get better shields, more health, etc.). The randomizer ... I'll go into that separately. But it's a bit less than random.

3) The randomizer has some obscenely evil combinations when it gets up to four random effects. How bad?

- spastic enemies : they move about three times as fast
- close combat : accuracy is reduced while damage goes up, forces point blank range shooting
- head shots only : body shots do 0 damage
- vampire : you constantly lose health, but gain some every time you kill an enemy

I've already gone on about how overpowered the critters are when you compare your shields/health to theirs. Add on another 25% or so to that. It took away any ability to get in at close range coupled with a dire need to engage at ... close range.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 19 2010,18:27

QUOTE

- spastic enemies : they move about three times as fast
- close combat : accuracy is reduced while damage goes up, forces point blank range shooting
- head shots only : body shots do 0 damage
- vampire : you constantly lose health, but gain some every time you kill an enemy

None of that sounds fun.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 20 2010,07:56

(Leisher @ Apr. 19 2010,20:27)

QUOTE

None of that sounds fun.

The enemies get so buffed that anything less than a coordinated squad effort results in a loss. The interesting bit is that the wave is still on if one player is still in the arena. Everyone that dies beforehand is set to the penalty box, which is at the top of a big-ass tower in the middle of the fighting area. The random effects still have a hold on you, but you can't die again. You can snipe the fuck out of anything that's not directly beneath you, though. That was the strategy a few times.

Any penalty box occupants are placed back on the field after the wave is beat.

But yeah, it can get fucking brutal.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 27 2010,11:36

Knocked out another one of the marathon 20-round arena matches. Hell-burbia went first, this time around it was the Gully.

Good :
1) The spawns occur in three main clumps. Everything else is scattered. There's not nearly as bad spots for critters to hide as Hell-burbia.
2) There's a teleporter that'll run you back & forth between two major spawn sites. The critters can't run through.
3) Guardians, skags, & humanoids will attack each other on sight ... unless you're around to provide a more interesting target.

Bad :
1) When you hit the speed trifecta of spastic enemies + high speed enemies + dodgeball, you may as well not shoot unless your target isn't paying attention to you; otherwise, they can sprint halfway across the map in three seconds flat.

Ugly:
1) FUCK the close combat handicap. It is uber-retarded.
2) Double fuck the close combat handicap in conjunction with the head shot handicap.

Either one on its own is painful enough. If you get both, then it tacks on an extra 20 minutes of time to finish a wave. If the above two get rolled in with vampire, it's almost instant death with just Roland & Lilith. Brick might actually kick some serious ass in the Underdome since all he'd have to do would be rush the baddies & use his ability to minimize the damage.

Oh yeah, have iced Crawmerax an assload of times, too. Still no pearlescent drops. Got to be at least 30 - 40 now. It's been forever & a day since an improved combat rifle or shotgun dropped. Mainly looking for pistols, SMGs, revolvers (found a kick-ass one), & launchers now.

I'm really wondering how much DLC they'll keep releasing for Borderlands before they roll out the new game. You could easily call the three so far at least 25% of a new title.

EDIT : < Ask and ye shall receive >.

Posted by WSGrundy on Sep. 19 2010,17:09

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 29 2012,11:04

bump

Posted by Malcolm on Sep. 29 2012,11:09

Of all the classes, the Siren is the most solo'able, I think. It's the phase thing. Sometimes you just need to go intangible and run the fuck away at lightspeed. Second-best seems like the hunter, due to the goddamned, motherfucking, son-of-a-bitch, kill stealing vulture-bird that can get its cooldown to ~1s I think, allowing the hunter a means of killing that doesn't need aiming, never runs out of ammo, and can hit multiple targets at once, plus other bonuses on top of that.

Only co-op'd with Roland and Lilith. Looking forward to BL2 with a full spread.

EDIT: Roland sucks in BL1.

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 29 2012,11:11

I have focused "Assassin" in my skill tree, and my weapon with highest proficiency is the sniper rifle. I loves me some sniping. Even getting really good at leading them from a mile away.

Now that I do some damage when I phase in/out, that's becoming more interesting beyond JUST GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM HERE!

Posted by Malcolm on Sep. 29 2012,11:23

Assassin is usually for going in close with SMGs after sneaking in with phasewalk. Elemental is damage bonus with weapons, mostly, but some other interesting tweeks, too. The controller (aside from crowd control) has useful shield/cooldown things.

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 29 2012,18:51

Level 26, just killed Krom.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 05 2012,10:45

Done.