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Forum: Games
Topic: GTA IV
started by: Leisher

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 30 2008,11:51

If you're a parent who purchased this game for your under 17 child, you're a fucking idiot. If you're a member of the MSM and you're writing stories about how this game is corrupting our children, you're a fucking idiot. This game is for adults, is rated as such, and requires ID to purchase. This game belongs in the hands of a minor as much as your average porno or R rated film. So wake up, realize that the MAJORITY of people who play games are over 18 and most of them don't want to play Sonic the Hedgehog. End of story.

With that out of the way, I've played a few hours of GTA IV and here are my early impressions:

1. The graphics are unbelievable. It's like playing Who killed Roger Rabbit? in that most of it looks damn near real, while the "cartoony" elements are still there...

2. The story seems much deeper than the last version's flimsy excuse for violence.

3. The atmosphere is right on so far. On my first launch of the game before I even left the apartment you go to initially, I got so caught up in a TV show in game that I spent the first 10 minutes watching that.

4. The control scheme, which was easily the best in gaming "free roaming" gameplay, has been redone. Just a horrible, horrible decision IMHO. Controls are no longer intuitive and only a notch above terrible so far. Any review you read giving GTA IV glowing reviews and doesn't mention the controls...well, they've been paid off. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but I don't know that I'll ever love this game as much as I liked Vice City because the control scheme is just shitty. I think the problem is that they tried to add too much. WAY too much. There's now multiple fight moves, including a dodge. You can answer your phone or not. Use said phone like a real one in scrolling through your phone book, texts, etc. Hide behind cover. Turn on your car's brights. and the list goes on with everything having it's own button.

-Adding to the control issues are camera issues. Most of the handful of views are worthless. The camera is a MAJOR problem when driving. I cannot remember a single corner I turned where the camera actually showed me what was in the direction I turned. My car actually had to get up to speed while my camera slowly moved from it's previous position to behind the car where it should be. Alos, the developers must've taken advice from the Command & Conquer people on camera placement: "Stick it up your character's asses. We think players don't like to actually see the world they're playing in." If you don't get my point, the camera is WAY too close. Again, a major problem when driving.

-Speaking of driving, so far...and maybe it's just the shitty cars I have access to early on...driving any car feels like driving on ice. Hitting the normal brake makes the car brake HARD cutting off any chance of a sliding turn. Hitting the handbrake has the opposite effect. Sure, it starts a sliding turn, but the car usually over slides pointing you in the wrong direction quite often. Again, I'm sure it's just something I need to get used to.

So far, despite these criticisms, I'm enjoying the game.

That being said, I really think the developers fucked up after Vice City. The vast majority of folks think Vice City was the pinnacle of GTA style gameplay. Rockstar should've kept that gameplay with those controls and simply added to it every year. Just add new features, new details, new graphics, and a new story. After all, it's been working for FPS developers...

Posted by Alhazad on May 01 2008,21:05

(Leisher @ Apr. 30 2008,11:51)

QUOTE

So wake up, realize that the MAJORITY of people who play games are over 18 and most of them don't want to play Sonic the Hedgehog. End of story.

B-but...

Posted by Malcolm on May 02 2008,07:52

The part about Vice is that I got into that after playing San Andreas. So, my brain was initially wired to those controls. I didn't have a tremendous difficulty going from SA to Vice, so I guess the controls couldn't've been that much different. In addition, the skill system in SA, primitive as it was (no joke -- all skills increased at set intervals, easily deducible from cross-checking your skills w\ the appropriate attribute, all such things being recorded for your convenient in your profile), at least it was something. But it always puzzled me how I could engage in a Ramboesque one man army of retribution assault on most of a major urban city, single-handedly wiping out two other gangs in their entirety, but wasn't bad-ass enough to take out three crooked cops?

That being said, the atmosphere, story, and just general setting of Vice made it umpteen millions times more enjoyable than San Andreas. Vice was too short, the map utility didn't've near as many bells & whistles as SA, and water = death? C'mon. Even I know Ray Liotta can swim.

Posted by Alhazad on May 03 2008,00:20

Rampage in the Sea Sparrow. Best part.

That chaingun was retardedly awesome. Who the hell installed that damn thing?

Posted by Malcolm on May 03 2008,09:34

I dunno. I can't tell you how many times I'd drove a speed daemon car to the top of the mountain in SA, floor it, & jump off the ramp at the peak. Hell, I even survived it a couple times w\o jumping out of the car.

Posted by Leisher on May 05 2008,20:56

I'm getting the hang of the controls and they're starting to feel better. Definitely not intuitive, but they work.

The storyline so far has been very good. I actually might stop and play back through the initial parts again as I feel I missed some opportunities due to sticking to the story. More so than any other GTA game, this one is more about the story and less about the random violence.

The cops are dealt with better here. They're everywhere, but they're slower to respond and, so far, haven't been perfect drivers who have instant acceleration to be on top of you in seconds. To balance this, the developers took away the instant forgiveness of the Pay and Spray. It's still there, but the cops can't see you go in. Instead, there is a circle that surrounds you and that represents the active area where the cops are looking for you. If you escape it, you lose them and the stars. You can help your cause by switching outfits, cars, etc. It's much more realistic and fun to actually escape rather than just run through a glorified car wash in full view of your pursuers.

Posted by Leisher on May 07 2008,07:13

I wanted to address the cop thing again, it is extremely well done in this version of the game.

I was goofing off a bit last night and got my wanted level up to 4 stars, yet the cops didn't insta-kill me or come after me with such aggressiveness that I had no chance of escape like the previous versions of GTA.

I was actually able to hold off the police for a long while and then attempt an escape on foot. I didn't make it as I had to shut the game off, but the point is that the police weren't hounding me every step. There weren't cop cars flying at me from every direction kamikaze style.

I think this might be the area where they've made the best improvement in terms of gameplay.

Posted by Malcolm on May 07 2008,09:22

I was able to hold off the cops even at 5 stars for extended periods of time in SA.

Least the wardrobes can be put to decent use.

Posted by Leisher on May 07 2008,10:29

You'll like this. It's different. They've made everything a shade more realistic instead of cartoony.

I still say Vice City was the greatest GTA game of them all.

Posted by Alhazad on May 07 2008,11:14

Vice City would have been a good bit too easy if all these later improvements were in it, come to think.

Five stars? Go for a swim in the ocean, come up where the dumbed-down cops aren't, catch a shower and a nap at your pad, problem solved.

Posted by Leisher on May 07 2008,11:29

True, Vice City's gameplay worked with the higher paced, cartoony style.

Vice City also has such a good feel and atmosphere. Here the realism is notched way up and the city feels a lot more alive.

I like that they're growing the franchise. They've sat back and milked the cow, but they're making it better.

Except for the radio. I think the radio this time around has sucked.

Posted by Alhazad on May 07 2008,16:05

Well yeah, it's radio...

Posted by Malcolm on May 07 2008,17:05

(Leisher @ May 07 2008,13:29)

QUOTE

Damn. There were some classics in SA.

"K-DST. If the cops can't stop you, you must be on the dust."

"K-DST. We've been playing songs about doing drugs and abusing women for the past thirty years."

Posted by Leisher on May 09 2008,19:10

Minor spoiler:

When you're on a date (this happened to me on the second date...oh yeah, you go on dates in this game) your character will ask "Are you going to invite me up for some "hot coffee"?

Posted by Malcolm on May 10 2008,00:05

Had a chance to try this thing tonight.

First impressions : looks damn pretty, but the cars fishtail a shitload more than I remember.

Posted by Leisher on May 12 2008,05:34

QUOTE

First impressions : looks damn pretty, but the cars fishtail a shitload more than I remember.

That's pretty much the exact thoughts I had when I started it up the first time.

I believe the difference is in the hand brake and the overall brake operations.

The handbrake is what makes the cars fishtail badly. However, the primary brake is not much better as with any speed you skid forever. The cars handle very well, but once you brake it's like you're driving on ice covered with oil.

Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2008,09:27

I hit the e-brake, the normal brake, & the alt. brake when I tried to slide around corners. It worked correctly maybe 25% of the time.

Posted by Leisher on May 12 2008,10:15

Exactly. I was going to mention that I've made great turns, but not every time.

Sometimes I can make a turn at a certain speed, sometimes not. (For those curious, yes I'm aware of the ways different cars handle and I'm referring to the same turn in the same type of vehicle.)

Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2008,11:16

I consider myself to be a better than average GTA driver, too. I was god of SA.

Posted by Leisher on May 12 2008,11:31

I considered myself pretty good in Vice City.

Posted by Leisher on May 13 2008,09:03

I was pleasantly surprised when visiting an in game comedy show to see a mini-stand up act by an actual name. I won't spoil who, but while it's not a huge name in stand up, most people here will be happy. The stand up was, in GTA tradition, really in poor taste, which fit the atmosphere of the game and made it funny.

Actually, in the two hours I played last night, some interesting stuff went down. I'm actually rather pleased with the writing in this version.

Outside of the fishtailing (which isn't that bad, but easily the worst part of the controls), the other thing I could see annoying folks is the relationships. You have to go on dates and man-dates to keep your lovers and friends happy. They will call at bad times.

Posted by Malcolm on May 13 2008,09:13

(Leisher @ May 13 2008,11:03)

QUOTE

Outside of the fishtailing (which isn't that bad, but easily the worst part of the controls), the other thing I could see annoying folks is the relationships. You have to go on dates and man-dates to keep your lovers and friends happy. They will call at bad times.

Yeah. Was over at my buddy's last night trying it again. He's up to about three chicks + several friends. Worst bit is even if you drive to do that shit, you can get interrupted by another mission starting.

Posted by Leisher on May 13 2008,12:01

QUOTE

He's up to about three chicks + several friends. Worst bit is even if you drive to do that shit, you can get interrupted by another mission starting.

Where's he meeting the chicks? In the storyline? I've meet one via storyline and I believe I might've met another last night via the storyline. That's two and one of them is no longer in the picture...maybe? (I can't say more without a spoiler.)

I assume he's on the third island? I just opened the second. Speaking of that, I loved how seamless they made the opening of the second island. I had no idea it opened up when it did until I was running from the police during a mission.

As for getting interrupted by missions while doing side things, you can turn the storyline off. Simply open your cell phone and in the options you can choose to stop the storyline so that you have a chance to explore and do whatever you want without anyone bugging you. Pretty nice feature.

Posted by Malcolm on May 13 2008,16:30

Yeah, but it's still crossing way too close to SimLife territory for my taste in a few places.

I wanted more shit like the skill system in SA & less like owning a fucking cellphone.

Posted by Leisher on May 14 2008,05:25

Eh, I'm a bit torn.

While you're right about the "SimLife" thing, I do think the dates and hanging out "missions" add something to the game.

While I don't like how they'll call you while you're actually on a mission and you lose points with them if you don't drop what you're doing and go hang out, I do like how you have to earn their respect to get new options.

For example: Once Roman likes you enough, you can call his cabs for pick up from anywhere in the city. Later, when he likes you even more, you can drive his cabs and pick up folks.

I was a bit more impressed with the radio last night when "Goodbye Horses" came on. That had me laughing.

I also could've sworn I heard Toledo, Ohio mentioned on the in game radio last night. I know he was talking about Joe Walsh, but I was busy racing at the time so I didn't hear it all.

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 10 2008,04:26

I tried to date a chick from the Internet. As I was driving somewhere nice, I accidentally drove past some dive and took her there (since it happens automatically), and she didnt want to see me again.

Damn you lawchick!

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 10 2008,04:27

Uh oh... I just googled her, and sounds like she was a good friend to have. umm, any way to get her back?

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 10 2008,06:03

(TheCatt @ Jul. 10 2008,05:26)

QUOTE

That sounds sooooo stupid.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 10 2008,07:10

QUOTE

That sounds sooooo stupid.

You're stupid.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 10 2008,07:47

Stupid.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 10 2008,07:48

Speaking of GTA, wife watches Today Show as she gets ready for work in the morning, and I heard the idiots on tv discussing, "How do you know if these games are appropriate for your kids?"

Did someone drop the game rating system and not tell me?

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 10 2008,07:48

Apparently she can reduce wanted levels if you date her enough.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 10 2008,08:23

QUOTE

Did someone drop the game rating system and not tell me?

It's a long story, but essentially yes and no. How's that for confusing? The major retailers stopped recognizing it for some reason. However, there is a new one in place by the same people...

I think there might be another thread here someone discussing it.

Long story short though, games are still rated as provided by the ESRB. (Their wiki might have more info on the recent...whatever it was.)

QUOTE

Apparently she can reduce wanted levels if you date her enough.

I've never dated her. I heard she can only reduce it if it's 2 (maybe 3 stars). There are two more out there. I know one heals you. Not sure what the other one does.

I never bothered with them as my friends bugged me enough during the game about hanging out, I didn't need more people bugging me.

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 10 2008,09:00

that's true..i hate the interuptions.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 14 2008,07:19

Not sure if I ever posted a "final word" on GTA IV (I didn't see anything in this chain).

Anyway, I think that this game really took things to a new level and was just what the franchise needed after the extremely sub-par effort in "GTA: San Andreas", which was the developer's laziest effort.

GTA IV puts you in the shoes of a Russian (illegal) immigrant who hasn't come to the U.S. simply for opportunity. He has a personal mission to fulfill and that storyline carries you throughout GTA IV. Yes, you are a criminal and you'll do criminal things, but no GTA game has ever touched upon the morality of what you're doing quite like this one does.

That's not to say it does it well. You can still run around and be a psycho if you'd like, but there are different consequences now, particularly in the story, which is a cool change of pace.

The driving issues that I complained about initially are less of a concern as you put in more playing time, but even as I got used to the excessive skidding and out of control turns, I still think this was the weakest part of the game. I hope this is an issue the developers address in the sequel.

My only complaints aside from the driving are:
-The frequency of the "come hang out" phone calls from friends. This was a bit much, particularly for those gamers, like myself, who like to explore and do everything within a game. To make matters worse, if you missed a call, ignored a call, or otherwise refused to hang out, those characters would not like you as much. Having a character, particularly my own cousin, lose "friendship" for me because I can't hang out at that moment is pretty stupid. This system is a great idea, but needs to be overhauled in the next version.
-The races, although not my favorite part of the GTA series, were pretty scarce this time around and pretty easy. The only race I didn't win on my first try was one I tried to race in a helicopter. In that case, I think I caused too much damage to another race car prior to the race starting as I was landing in the assigned start position.
-One thing that is always lacking in the GTA games is the sheer amount of terrain versus how much there is to do or see. Yes, there is a TON to do in these games, but there's even more terrain that goes wasted. I'd like to see more missions or side missions that get the whole map involved rather than certain hot spots.
-More interactivity. I can't stress that enough. There is a "Times Square" in this game, yet there's really nothing to do there. There's an arcade in Chinatown that I was very disappointed to see that I couldn't enter. Having a few games within the arcade that you could actually play would've been pretty cool. All the basketball courts could've used a ball so that Nicko could shoot a few. Hell, it would've been cool to see some people playing the game. Ditto for all the empty pools. I also would've liked the option to hit a bucket of balls at the driving range. If they can work in darts, bowling, and billiards, I have to imagine that eventually, they'll work in some other activities.

That's really it. There are some other little things here and there that could be fixed, but overall this was a damn good game.

Anyway, my final word is that I highly recommend this game to anyone. You'll more than get your money's worth out of it as there's a ridiculous amount of game play within. The story and characters are very well done. The graphics are the best in the series. Yada. Yada. Yada.

9 out of 10.

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 25 2008,04:18

I hate that I never know if the car I take to a mission will be the car I leave the mission with. Early on, I lost a couple of nice cars this way.

Making me drive more doesn't make a mission better.

The missions are too repetitive. I just finished the longest one I've done yet (at the boat/shipping docks), and it's just "climb something and sniper, then move down and assault rifle/uzi" repeated for an hour.

It's OK. I'm not quite done yet (60%), but I think the game ends at 69% or so if you dont do all the extra crap.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 25 2008,05:52

The GTA series isn't made with the casual gamer in mind. Sure, they might enjoy it too, but they'll just rent it and be done in a few days.

The developers are more focused on giving more hardcore gamers a large story, a huge sandbox, and lots of immersion. I'm pretty sure GTA was either the first or damn near the first game to award the 100% completion acheivement. The game is literally packed with stuff to do, stuff to find, people to meet, places to explore, etc. Hell, you can just sit in your apartment and watch TV for 30 minutes if you want to.

So I'd say a statement about repetition might be warranted if one were only looking at one small part of the game, but taken in an overall context, it's not fair. Even saying that, I'm not sure I agree with the main storyline being called repetitive. I absolutely get what you mean, as it is a crime game and most missions are solved via gunplay, but what more should we be looking for out of the game? I like the fact that the mob bosses you work for throughout aren't sending you to steal certain cars or execute pigeons or hang out with your friends or compete in street races, etc. Those things should be seperated.

Still, I could see different missions being carried out. How about a mission where the player must actually not be seen or hurt anyone? He's got the find a way into a building to steal something and then get out again. A police station would be great for that. Remember the mission from Vice City where you had to find a perch to take photos of the senator sleeping with his mistress and then you had to get away from the thugs that came after you? That was great.

One of my biggest complaints is that too many good locations went unused. Hell, the whole third island seemed that way to me.

I think in future GTA games they should open the whole city up from the start instead of creating fake emergencies that have the islands closed off from one another. I think that would help them get the whole city more involved in the storyline rather than just a tiny section at a time.

I didn't mind the drives to missions. In fact, I thought it added a level of immersion. Doesn't it make more sense for a game trying to be a life simulator of sorts to actually have you travel in its city to get to where you're supposed to be? I like the fact that any companions with you essentially act as narrators covering what needs to be done on the way.

Those little details were missing from their last game, GTA: San Andreas, which is why it's considered the worst in the series.

All that taken into consideration, there is one thing I'd like to see returned to the GTA series: Rampages. They were such a nice distraction from the main storyline. Sometimes you just want to kill shit. Sure, it pulls one out of the story and reminds you it's a video game, but that's what it is after all.

Hmmm, a mini-GTA rant. Think I'll go to their forums and bitch about rampages.