Thunderdome 2015 » Printable Version of Topic

Forum: Games
Topic: Team Fortress 2
started by: GORDON

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 19 2006,19:58

Must say, looks cool.

< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaF638MBSAE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebadassmofo%2Ecom%2F >

Much better art style than the version of TF2 being shown 3 or 5 years ago.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jul. 19 2006,22:33

Coming to a Steam near you.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 20 2006,05:18

Son of a bitch.

Although, as it is purely a multi-game, I don't have as much problem with it having to connect to a server.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jul. 20 2006,06:33

I'm voting against Steam by not participating at all.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 20 2006,06:38

Hmmm.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 20 2006,11:14

Honestly, it's time to end the Steam boycott. It's not as bad as you think it is, especially since it's 2 versions from the shape it was in for HL2's release. (For example: authenticating every time you play a single player game isn't true. Nor is it true that it must run in the background of your PC all the time.)

As Gordo points out, what's the difference between Steam authenticating your copy of TF2 or UO/SW:G/EVE authenticating you to play their game? (In Cakedaddy's case this question is even more important as he doesn't play single player games.)

It gets pointed out that no MMO can ever replicate what UO was, and I'm pointing out that software like Steam or X-Box live or the ones the other developers are working on are the future.

Would you rather deal with Steam or StarForce?

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 20 2006,11:39

(Leisher @ Jul. 20 2006,14:14)
Q U O T E	Would you rather deal with Steam or StarForce?

Neither.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 20 2006,11:44

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Neither.

Me too, but how likely is that?

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 20 2006,11:52

At least with Starforce, I can hit gamecopyworld and find a patch to remove it.

With Steam, I dunno.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 20 2006,12:17

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With Steam, I dunno.

I just saw an article while doing a bit of research to make sure my facts were straight that said you can get around the authentication process. Legally too. You can actually find instructions on Steam's own site.

Gabe Newall has stated that if Valve goes under or Steam goes under another service, they are going to remove the need for authentication from all their games. If true, that's a good thing.

Also, Steam hasn't wiped anyone's PC and then denied everything. And again, remember that Steam is more than just about authenticating. The other night I installed HL2:Ep1 on my new PC. I realized I didn't have HL2 installed (not that I needed it), but I did want it installed, so instead of getting out the disks, I just had Steam install it in the background while I played around on pogo.com. Steam knows I own a copy, so they install it without question. That was nice. If my house burns down and I lose my PC and all my disks, when I get a new PC I'll have access to all the games I own that are sold on Steam. Extreme situation and a luxury, but still...

Valve is a good company and makes some damn fine games. They're using Steam now to help smaller developers get their products out there that normally wouldn't get distributed like "The Ship".

I'm not in love with the whole concept of Steam, but I just don't see Valve as the bad guys.

Take Cake's boycott against EA, now THAT I get. EA has done some shitty stuff to the gaming world from buying great companies to destroying established franchises to ignoring the PC market when it comes to their sports games. Not to mention the "censorship" that Cake started hating them for.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 20 2006,12:20

Like I said once before... is HL2 $20 or cheaper, yet? That's my price point for a Steam-required game.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 20 2006,12:56

< Steam Games >

You've got $10 to go on HL2. I expect you could see it drop before or after the holidays as HL2:Ep 2 will be out this holiday season.

Is HL2 your only desire as far as Steam games though? I mean, once you have Steam, you have it. Thus, ANY game you purchase with Steam should be justification enough, right? You didn't post trailers for Portal and TF2 because you weren't interested in them...

HL2:Ep 1 is $20, as is Sin Ep1.

That doesn't list all the free content though. If you buy HL2, I'm pretty sure the remade HL 1 is free. If you buy Sin Ep1, the original Sin is free. Point is, prices vary based on your account.

CS is $10.

The Ship is $20 and both TPR and I have said we'd get it.

Darwinia which according to all the gaming media is the surprise of the year is $20.

There's a lot more there too and I only see three games above $20 on that list. (I can't speak on the third party games, obviously.)

Posted by TPRJones on Jul. 20 2006,13:02

Wait, The Ship is a Steam game?

I may retrack that choice, then. I'll have to think about it.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 20 2006,13:06

I saw HL2:Ep1 on amazon for about $15, yesterday.

And Portal looked interesting, but it might possibly be more thinking than I want to do when I want to turn off my brain and play a FPS. That's why I always liked the original Team Fortress. Once you learned the maps, it was a pretty simple game.

A lot of FPS is twitch. Portal looked to require a certain amount of planning and strategizing. I can see lots and lots of restores from a save point until you get a certain move just right.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jul. 20 2006,13:27

I didn't see Portal as an FPS. I saw it as more of an FPP (First Person Puzzle). I didn't see any bad guys other than the stationary turrets. Could be wrong though. But in any case, I still wouldn't call it a shooter in the traditional sense.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 20 2006,13:32

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Wait, The Ship is a Steam game?

I may retrack that choice, then. I'll have to think about it.

It's distributed on Steam, that doesn't mean it requires Steam.

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I saw HL2:Ep1 on amazon for about $15, yesterday.

I just looked and HL2 is $24.99 there used, $44.99 new (GotY edition?). Pricewatch has it for $27.99 (not the GotY edition).

Apparently, since the Game of the Year edition is on shelves, the price is still high. So the Pricewatch price is cheapest, although to save $2, I'd just go get it off Steam.

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I got the same impression.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jul. 20 2006,13:37

The difference between steam and EVE/UO/Etc is that the MMO's, my account is on THEIR hardware, not mine. So of COURSE I want it protected. They aren't making sure I've bought a copy of the game, they are making sure I am who I say I am so I don't damage someone's account. I don't want to have a problem playing my games on my laptop when on vacation with no Internet connection available. I saw that you can disable it for HL:2, but what about all the others? How difficult of a process is it? Can I have the game installed on all my PCs but only play it on one at a time? If two PCs are on at the same time and both have it installed, does it flag me as a pirate?

I understand their need to protect their property. And they walk a fine line between attacking their fans (RIAA) and making using their product a cumbersome event. So, maybe the solution is to lower the price of the games, instead of raising them, as the trend seems. Make it so it's too cheap to even bother with working around the protection. Make it up in volume. I can't help but wonder how many people pirate because they don't have the $50+ that most games cost. But, they'd think nothing of dropping $15. Not to mention all the extra sales because $15 is easier to afford and people are more likely to impulse spend. See the VHS market pre and post Top Gun for an example.

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 20 2006,13:56

(Leisher @ Jul. 20 2006,16:32)

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Wait, The Ship is a Steam game?

I may retrack that choice, then. I'll have to think about it.

It's distributed on Steam, that doesn't mean it requires Steam.

Steam is required for the multiplayer.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 20 2006,13:57

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Legit concerns, every one.

I think you should hit the Steam site and do some research. Why? Because you are missing some good games, and would miss TF2! That is one we've talked about multiing for years.

From my understanding, you can disable Steam for all the games. Your "laptop on vacation" scenario is one of the reasons why you can and why the instructions are right on Steam's site.

And that's my point. Valve has really worked with people here. They are taking concerns and addressing them. Compare it to StarForce who are telling their customers to go fuck themselves.

Again, not saying I love the technology, but I have come to realize it's our future whether we like it or not and I'd rather support companies who do it with their customers in mind and not just cash. Let's see how EA handles there customer complaints when their version of Steam hits.

Look at consoles, you can't get online unless you use their branded service. Sony has theirs and the X-Box has Live which is also coming to Vista. It's the same thing as Steam. It's distributes patches, updates, allows for peeps to hook up for games, etc. Do you think it isn't scanning for pirated stuff? Plus, their services are pay services.

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So, maybe the solution is to lower the price of the games, instead of raising them, as the trend seems. Make it so it's too cheap to even bother with working around the protection. Make it up in volume. I can't help but wonder how many people pirate because they don't have the $50+ that most games cost. But, they'd think nothing of dropping $15. Not to mention all the extra sales because $15 is easier to afford and people are more likely to impulse spend. See the VHS market pre and post Top Gun for an example.

As I noted in a few other chains, PC games ARE actually dropping in price overall. Microsoft is making a HUGE push to bring PC Gaming back to the top of the mountain where it should be. One of their "talking points" is the price of PC games which START from $19.99 to $49.99 with big names titles being anywhere in that range. Meanwhile X-Box 360 games are $10 more than X-Box games at $59.99 while Sony games are rumored to be anywhere from $59.99 to $100!!! Sony would NOT deny those rumors and in fact alluded to the fact that their games may be on the pricey side.

By the way, go look at the link I posted earlier in this thread and look at the prices of all the Steam games. If I remember, $39.99 was the highest price.

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Steam is required for the multiplayer.

Name a MMO that doesn't require you to login and prove who you are? I'm pretty sure that the Battlefield servers validate your copy of the game. EVERY console multiplayer game does...

Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 20 2006,14:16

(Leisher @ Jul. 20 2006,16:57)

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Steam is required for the multiplayer.

Name a MMO that doesn't require you to login and prove who you are? I'm pretty sure that the Battlefield servers validate your copy of the game. EVERY console multiplayer game does...

I was just clarifying... sheesh.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 20 2006,14:19

BTW, I read somewhere that multi Halo 2 on XBox Live won't be playable against peeps on a PC. We discussed this before.

Massive, disappointing fumble on the part of Microsoft and the game devs, if true.

Speaking of console validation.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jul. 20 2006,14:39

First impressions are hard to get over. . .

My first impressions of Steam:

1. Had to load it to play CS.
2. It forced me up upgrade to the latest version of CS.
3. It launched every time I started my PC.
4. It was very 'in my face' about stuff.

It killed CS for me because at that time, there was no anti cheat apps for CS. So, CS went from a virtually cheat free environment, to one that was infested with cheaters. Also, the latest version of CS at the time added a bunch of dumb content. The weapons were screwed up, and other stuff. It killed all the CS mods that were out there. So, all the stuff I liked about CS was gone. Thanks Steam!!

And because half (more or less) of this was Valves fault too (they approved the shutting down of the WON servers, the 'latest version only' rule on Steam, etc), I'm pissed off at them too.

So, they took a game I really, really liked and enjoyed playing, and beat it to a pulp, EA style, in my opinion. So. . . Fuck 'em. :-)

I could be swayed back to the dark side, because. . . they didn't piss in my face and laugh. They just screwed up.

So. . . here's their chance to make it up to me. . . What are the odds of me being able to load my old Half Life game, getting the current CS mod downloaded, and playing the game?

As far as TFC2 goes. . . I was never that jacked about it. :-) I played it cause it was free. But that style of game play was never very much fun for me. Charge in, guns blazing, spamming nades, get shot, hit space bar, repeat. Throw in a rocket jump here and there for good measure. The sniper and the engineer were the only stratigic points to that game. And that wasn't enough to be fun for much longer than 30 minutes per month for me. Granted, things could/should be different in TFC2. One can only hope that the rocket jump will be removed. But, since it was never taken out of the original, I have to wonder. I'm more for realism and strategy. Not, COMPLETE realism, I'm finding. But more than what was in the frag fest that is/was TFC.

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 20 2006,14:44

I liked the TFC frag fest. There were so many character types I could change my method of fragging whenever it pleased me to do so.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jul. 20 2006,17:50

You say so many character types, and yet, I found it to be repetative. Ok, I can spam nades as the demo till I get spammed then repeat. Go in ripping with the Heavy guy till I die, hit space, repeat. Go in quick and jumpy as the scout, hit space, repeat. Etc. The sniper, where you had to pick a good spot and see/hit them before they saw/hit you was fun. Setting up the turret and keeping it alive as long as possible was fun. But, that fun was always ended by the suicide nade spammer rocket jumping guy.

Senslessly lobbing ammo at AI monsters seems to be fun (Serious Sam). Senslessly lobbing ammo at PCs is. . . sensless and boringly repeatative.

In closing, you should stop liking TFC.

Posted by WSGrundy on Jul. 20 2006,18:05

(GORDON @ Jul. 20 2006,14:19)
Q U O T E	BTW, I read somewhere that multi Halo 2 on XBox Live won't be playable against peeps on a PC. We discussed this before. Massive, disappointing fumble on the part of Microsoft and the game devs, if true. Speaking of console validation.

All future games on 360 and Vista will be though.

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 21 2006,07:37

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My first impressions of Steam:

1. Had to load it to play CS.
2. It forced me up upgrade to the latest version of CS.
3. It launched every time I started my PC.
4. It was very 'in my face' about stuff.

1. They do use Steam as their multiplayer matching service, so that's understandable.
2. This is one of the criticisms about Steam, but if they are doing the hosting, matchmaking, and trying to block cheaters, then I can forgive them for this. If the game works, people shouldn't be bitching, if they don't like it, they should go design their own game. Valve is more accessible than any other company in allowing access to their code. If the game is broken due to an update, then shame on Valve.
3. This can be turned off like any other process in your startup. I shut mine off after I beat HL2.
4. I have no idea what you mean by that. I can only assume you mean that it popped up and gave you the latest Valve news (if there was any) when you booted your PC (none after that). That's solved by taking Steam out of your startup. Upon launching though, Steam doesn't do shit.

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It killed CS for me because at that time, there was no anti cheat apps for CS. So, CS went from a virtually cheat free environment, to one that was infested with cheaters. Also, the latest version of CS at the time added a bunch of dumb content. The weapons were screwed up, and other stuff. It killed all the CS mods that were out there. So, all the stuff I liked about CS was gone. Thanks Steam!!

And because half (more or less) of this was Valves fault too (they approved the shutting down of the WON servers, the 'latest version only' rule on Steam, etc), I'm pissed off at them too.

So, they took a game I really, really liked and enjoyed playing, and beat it to a pulp, EA style, in my opinion. So. . . Fuck 'em. :-)

I remember you complaining about the problems with CS. There is no answer besides "they fucked up." They must have fixed things though as many people still play it.

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I could be swayed back to the dark side, because. . . they didn't piss in my face and laugh. They just screwed up.

Exactly, they fucked up, but they weren't trying to fuck you. We've all seen other companies fuck over their consumers and not care. StarForce comes immediately to mind. EA and how they decimated UO (that's only one example for that company). Sony fucking over all their SW:G players by completely reinventing the game under their feet. Etc.

We've seen other developers make mistakes too, look at one of the most revered names in gaming: Blizzard. They had no idea how to control cheaters in Diablo ruining the multiplayer experience for all their customers. They went live with their Battlenet service and it was a huge flop at first due to being overloaded. Then they turned around and did the exact same thing with the WoW launch. Oh, and let's not forget their big "fuck you" to PC gamers when Starcraft got a sequel, but only for consoles.

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So. . . here's their chance to make it up to me. . . What are the odds of me being able to load my old Half Life game, getting the current CS mod downloaded, and playing the game?

Actually, you can't put it all on them. You're pretty bitter about CS and you're against Steam for being something you perceive it be rather than what Valve means it to be. I would suggest that for them to get a second chance with you, you really have to want to give them one.

Are you talking about Half-Life, the original? I have no clue. You might be able to find games outside of Steam doing that. Although, if you want to play within Steam, I'd recommend you hit their site and ask. I know CS went retail at some point, but I've also seen it given away in packages. I can't log into my Steam account from here, but if you look at the games list somewhere in this chain, I can tell you that I have a lot more games listed as "in account" that I never paid for because they are just given to me for being a customer and such.

Results may vary.

Oh, and I liked TFC more than CS. Sure it wasn't "realistic" because people could rocket jump, but it didn't try to be. CS was supposed to be realistic, but was as realistic as TFC. Maybe not in gameplay, but overall. I mean, who gets money for kills only to spend it at a store in their heads which makes the weapons magically appear. This is right after they've been resurrected of course

And don't judge TF2 before we get details. TFC was a huge hit and I expect we'll see lots of that gameplay, but don't be surprised if they stick in some CS style play. It may still be with those over the top characters, but who cares?

Posted by GORDON on Jul. 21 2006,09:34

(Leisher @ Jul. 21 2006,10:37)
Q U O T E	If the game is broken due to an update, then shame on Valve.

A Valve "update" is actually why I quit playing TFC long before Steam even arrived on the scene.

I was an average player. Sometimes I'd be near the top of the player list, sometimes near the bottom. No biggie.

But then Valve implemented some sort of new networking code that helped dial-up peeps be more competitive against broadband peeps. This made me, on broadband, all of a sudden be rubberbanding every move I made. Made the game unplayable, for me, though I saw lots of praise from the dial-up users. So I pretty much moved on from there.

I heard they pulled that stupid code out later, but for me the damage was done. Once I uninstalled it from my HD, it's a hassle reinstalling it all. Too bad for them, catering to a segment of their users who don't want to pay the shekels for a better service (yeah, or broadband wasn't in their area yet, but that isn't my problem until Valve made it my problem).

Posted by Leisher on Jul. 21 2006,10:46

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So Valve tried to help people, realized it fucked other people, and pulled it? Thus, the real problem is you're too lazy to install a game!

Well good news, Steam will install a game for you. Just click a button and do something else while the game installs.

Although, I do get what you're saying. I stopped playing CS before Valve got a hold of it and before that Cheatbuster thing was out because the cheating was on every server.

I think sometimes if you get burnt out on a game, you will turn your back if you feel things have changed for the worse without giving them a chance to fix it. UO was cheater's heaven and we stuck around there for a long while. Later, when the developers started sleeping with the RPers, everyone left. We got fed up.

Posted by WSGrundy on Aug. 31 2006,21:42

< Here is a new video. >

I really like the look but I don't know if I like FPS games enough to buy half life and then buy team fortress but it looks fun.

Posted by Leisher on Sep. 01 2006,05:52

It looks very good.

I almost didn't recognize the level.

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 01 2006,07:50

It looks exactly like a Team Fortress update without trying to reinvent the game.

Which is good.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Sep. 01 2006,08:47

Fucking rocket jump. What the fuck. They couldn't think of something better to give the soldier? I hate the game already.

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 01 2006,08:55

Oh yeah, I groaned at that part.

Posted by Leisher on Sep. 01 2006,11:05

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Fucking rocket jump. What the fuck. They couldn't think of something better to give the soldier? I hate the game already.

Well, in their defense, it was a huge part of the first game. I'd say it started the big trend of rocket jumping. Plus, the spy can become perfectly invisible apparently which doesn't bother you?

Also, everyone else is already doing straight military stuff. Why would they want to as well? Being campy sets it apart from the rest of the crowd.

But hey, they can't all be as realistic as Duke Nukem, Red Alert 2, Total Annihilation, Ultima Online, SW:G, EVE, etc. (For those who don't get that, it's the majority of games we've multied.).

EVERY game is going to be unrealistic in some way and you've got to admit that they aren't playing this up as a BF 1942 killer.

Posted by WSGrundy on Sep. 01 2006,11:07

(Cakedaddy @ Sep. 01 2006,08:47)
Q U O T E	Fucking rocket jump. What the fuck. They couldn't think of something better to give the soldier? I hate the game already.

Yeah that was totally lame. The other thing was how fast the scout(or whatever he was) moved.

Posted by WSGrundy on Sep. 01 2006,11:11

(Leisher @ Sep. 01 2006,11:05)
Q U O T E	EVERY game is going to be unrealistic in some way and you've got to admit that they aren't playing this up as a BF 1942 killer.

The unrealistic doesn't bother me at all, it just if something looks stupid or not. That is the difference between the invisible spy and the rocket jump.

As long the spy has some major weaknesses I think the invisible thing is cool but the rocket jump just looks gay. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but I would rather the soldier have a jet pack or something then using the rocket to jump.

Posted by Leisher on Sep. 01 2006,12:03

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Actually, I thought the scout was the worst thing in the video. He appeared to be too fast. the only guy that could stop him was the demoman and that's because he had set a trap.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Sep. 01 2006,15:15

I know realism use to be a beef I had with FPSs. But that's been solved for the most part by the huge number of games out there now. CoD2 covers that well enough. Some of the mods that are out there take it even further than standard CoD2 does. So, that's not an issue anymore.

Rocket jump is just lame. It was a bug in the first one they decided not to fix and then impliment in the second? What ever. . . I agree with WS. Had they given him a jet pack, then it wouldn't bother me. I realize they both accomplish the same thing. It's just the principle of the thing. It was discovered in TFC, exploited by many, and then adopted as 'we meant to do that'. Blah. They just catered to all the lame players that find bugs and use them to their advantage. Other than seeing the spy go invis and stuff, don't know much about it. So, not going to rush to judgement. It looks like he has to uncloak to kill, so, maybe they can only cloak if they aren't moving. So, they have to get to a spot, stop, cloak, etc. Maybe. Don't know. I remember them being able to take the shape/color of enemy units too.

Over all, it's not the realism of TFC that I have issues with. As stated above, it's the boring repeatativeness of spam/res/spam/res/spam/res crap I have issues with. Could easily be solved by having a res delay of some kind. CoD2 HQ maps and CS as a whole punishes you by not letting you res till the next round. CoD2 CTF makes you wait up to 10 seconds to spawn. Death matches are just spam and res fests. Blah. . . gets boring too quickly.

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 01 2006,17:41

Eh, scout speed looked perfectly in line with Team Fortress 1. Keep in mind they have zero armor. Scouts are still pretty easily killed despite the speed.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Sep. 01 2006,19:05

Kind of what I was thinking. Low damage, low armor, they have speed.

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 01 2006,20:37

I played me a shitload of Team Fortress.

Posted by Leisher on Sep. 27 2013,06:33

If you still play it, PC Gamer has < a nice article > on TF2's idle servers and their purpose.

Posted by GORDON on Sep. 27 2013,08:29

(Leisher @ Sep. 27 2013,09:33)

QUOTE

If you still play it, PC Gamer has < a nice article > on TF2's idle servers and their purpose.

Page is gone.

Can you just rewrite it here, from memory?

Posted by TheCatt on Sep. 27 2013,08:33

Link just has a BR you ahve to remove.