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Forum: Games Topic: Baldur's Gate started by: Malcolm Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 01 2007,08:48
Atari has apparently released a 4 DVD collection consisting of the original game (now nine years old), its expansion, BG II & it's "expansion" (kind of like half a game), all for about $25. I will be purchasing this as my original BG discs seem to have some error where it crashes at this one particular spot. No amount of patching, reinstalling, or technical wizardry ever fixed it. Due to the crashes, I never actually beat it, though. I vaguely remember getting to the end, though. Never beat the expansion for BG II, either. But, I digress. $25 for a shitload of gaming hours, I assure you, if you've not partaken in the last decade.
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 01 2007,09:23
It was fun when I played the original, but the new game engine with Neverwinter Nights pretty much killed the franchise, it seems.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 01 2007,09:36
I still say that BG 2 is the best RPG release in the past fifteen or twenty years. & there's some easter egg that spans the entire series that I wanna try.
Posted by Leisher on Oct. 01 2007,12:19
QUOTE I still say that BG 2 is the best RPG release in the past fifteen or twenty years. Say what now? Not saying BG2 wasn't good or even great, but that's a pretty bold statement. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 01 2007,12:35
I'm entirely willing to make it.What holes would you care to shoot in such a claim? Posted by Leisher on Oct. 02 2007,07:48
Baldur's Gate 2 wasn't perfect by any means and there have been a ton of really good RPGs in the last 20 years.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 02 2007,09:00
Yea, there've been some damn good ones. But aside from being good, BG 2 has a few hundred modules w\ entire story arcs that can double playtime.
Posted by Leisher on Oct. 02 2007,09:41
Where did those few hundred modules come from? I remember it shipping with one.I believe a game can only be judged on what shipped in the box and there were MANY RPGs that offered more gameplay out of the box. If you want to get really technical about gameplay time, Ultima Online has been running since 1997(?) with 300,000-a million or more subscribers all experiencing a different RPG 24/7. Length of gameplay shouldn't be THE determining factor. Hell, Oblivion could theoretically be played forever. Doesn't make it the best. I'm not saying what the best RPG ever is...I don't know. I'm just pointing out that I don't think it's BG2. BG2 did not stand apart much from BG, nor does it standout from Neverwinter Nights (1 or 2). Hell, you could run those games all side by side and they look very similar. There are even FPS shooters that can be considered RPGs. The list is just too impressive to declare BG2 the best. Final Fantasy 1-12 Ultima 1-9 Wasteland Fallout 1 & 2 (3 coming) A Bard's Tale 1-3 Might & Magic series The Elder Scrolls series Skies of Arcadia Neverwinter Nights Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2 (Mass Effect coming) Wizardry series etc. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 02 2007,09:46
Fallout & KotOR immediately sprang to mind. Wasteland is twenty years old. Still my absolute favourite RPG. Ultima VII is also up there (I curse the Voodoo memory manager to this day).My judgments are, of course, insanely biased. Posted by GORDON on Oct. 02 2007,09:57
(Leisher @ Oct. 02 2007,12:41) QUOTE If you want to get really technical about gameplay time, Ultima Online has been running since 1997(?) with 300,000-a million or more subscribers all experiencing a different RPG 24/7. 23/7. Don't they shut down for an hour every day for backups? Posted by Leisher on Oct. 02 2007,10:10
QUOTE Fallout & KotOR immediately sprang to mind. Wasteland is twenty years old. Still my absolute favourite RPG. Ultima VII is also up there (I curse the Voodoo memory manager to this day). I still have a place in my heart for the A Bard's Tale series. I remember actually using graph paper to map the dungeons. I had a monk named Amon Ra that was pretty much unstoppable. QUOTE 23/7. Don't they shut down for an hour every day for backups? Yep, I forgot about that. Despite all it's flaws, I think it's an easy argument to say that UO was the best MMORPG ever made until the developers broke it. No other developer would dare make another game like it for fear of alienating a segment of their potential audience. Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 02 2007,10:45
I grew up playing Pac-Man as an RPG.It's why I have such bad eating habits. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 02 2007,10:55
I'm not saying best RPG ever. Best RPG of the past couple decades.& Bard's Tale still kicks ass. Monks were god after a bit. Posted by Leisher on Oct. 02 2007,12:21
QUOTE I grew up playing Pac-Man as an RPG. It's why I have such bad eating habits. Uh oh, I grew up playing Leisure Suit Larry. QUOTE I'm not saying best RPG ever. Best RPG of the past couple decades. I know you drink a lot, but what year do you think this is...? The vast majority of the games I listed have come out within the past two decades, let alone a "couple." Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 02 2007,14:19
I haven't really played an RPG since the days of Bard's Tale.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 02 2007,14:24
(TheCatt @ Oct. 02 2007,16:19) QUOTE I haven't really played an RPG since the days of Bard's Tale. The combat system in that thing beat the hell outta the slow, clunky strategy maps in the Gold Box Series. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 02 2007,20:32
I may have to wait till the semester is out to purchase this thing. It would kill any hope of my meeting the minimum GPA requirement.
Posted by Leisher on Oct. 03 2007,05:08
I've actually set aside Bioshock due to similar concerns about it interfering with stuff I need to get done. I'm also worried about Mass Effect's impending release and the fact that HL2:E2 is now available.
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 24 2013,14:55
BG Enhanced edition on sale on Steam for $7.99 for another 43 hours. BG2 Enhanced edition on sale for $16.99 until Jan 2 on Steam.
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 24 2013,19:39
(Malcolm @ Dec. 24 2013,17:55) QUOTE BG Enhanced edition on sale on Steam for $7.99 for another 43 hours. BG2 Enhanced edition on sale for $16.99 until Jan 2 on Steam. Bought it for me and my kid with the idea of doing it multi. Posted by Leisher on Dec. 24 2013,21:38
Please allow him to be patient when sorting his inventory. Don't ruin the next generation of gamer.
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 24 2013,21:40
He will learn to do that shit quick. Taking your time then Charlie is inside the wire and he is killing you with your own gun because you were busy sorting your shit.
Posted by Leisher on Dec. 24 2013,21:47
QUOTE He will learn to do that shit quick. Then he will someday have friends who won't play RPGs with him. QUOTE Taking your time then Charlie is inside the wire and he is killing you with your own gun because you were busy sorting your shit. Because that's how RPGs work. Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 26 2013,11:12
I think BG2 didn't let you pause on the inventory screen.
Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 02 2014,08:52
(GORDON @ Dec. 24 2013,23:40) QUOTE He will learn to do that shit quick. That's the #1 reason I don't play any games with limited inventory in multi. I always end up playing inventory tetris and then wondering where everyone went and never actually kill anything because everyone else ran ahead and killed all the bad guys without me. I don't get to actually play the game at all, just play battlefield janitor. What the hell is everyone in such a hurry for? Posted by GORDON on Jan. 02 2014,08:56
.... there has to be a compromise between wanting to spend several minutes agonizing over the minutia what one carries, and making quick decisions and wanting to move the hell on. So far the argument has just been WE WANT TO TAKE A LONG TIME THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS SO FUCK YOU GORDON YOU SUCK.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 02 2014,09:31
(TPRJones @ Jan. 02 2014,11:52) QUOTE (GORDON @ Dec. 24 2013,23:40) QUOTE He will learn to do that shit quick. That's the #1 reason I don't play any games with limited inventory in multi. I always end up playing inventory tetris and then wondering where everyone went and never actually kill anything because everyone else ran ahead and killed all the bad guys without me. I don't get to actually play the game at all, just play battlefield janitor. What the hell is everyone in such a hurry for? Exactly. I mean, can I take my time, and enjoy the game I paid for? Borderlands was enough of a challenge playing with certain people who think an item is an item, just grab one and go. I don't know if they ever noticed that the guns might have the same stats, but felt different, would shoot differently, would have effects not listed in stats, etc. Don't even get me started on the people who run ahead of the group and/or think things like story are unimportant. Such folks just suck the fun right out of the game. Posted by GORDON on Jan. 02 2014,09:43
(Leisher @ Jan. 02 2014,12:31) QUOTE Borderlands was enough of a challenge playing with certain people who think an item is an item, just grab one and go. I don't know if they ever noticed that the guns might have the same stats, but felt different, would shoot differently, would have effects not listed in stats, etc. Oh, I get that. In my mind there is just a certain amount of time that should be allotted into choosing between 2 guns that have, say, a 5% difference in abilities. It isn't much time, but even I will take a moment to weigh the differences and choose. I will not agonize for more than a few seconds, though. The advantage you get in making sure you have the PERFECT weapon isn't worth the time it takes over choosing the 'good enough' weapon. In my mind. Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 02 2014,10:26
If BL2 guns were close enough, should only take 30s or so to compare them, especially if they're the same type.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 02 2014,10:32
I agree with Gordon on this. The differences between many guns was too small to ponder for more than a few seconds. And even if you guessed wrong and kept the weaker one, you'll have 10 more guns to look at in a few seconds. And what's funny is that you can spend 20 minutes entering weapons into spreadsheets and comparing stats and effectiveness in different situations against all different monsters, etc, etc. Then that person will say, "Oh, I'm gonna use a key." Open the chest "Oh man. This one is way better than anything I have", and then immediately start using that one.But I'm more patient than Gordon and don't mind letting you play weapon dress-up with your character. Posted by Leisher on Jan. 02 2014,10:34
Sorting the junk out quickly is easy enough. Once you get close to what you want, you've got to test fire them. You've got to examine the damage, the effects, look at your build, see if the weapon fits, how much ammo it holds, etc. And Gordo, you're wrong about the 5% damage. It was more than that. I kept weapons that did far less damage than ones I discarded. Why? Because the ones I discarded didn't shoot right, had long reload times, etc. Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 02 2014,11:17
(GORDON @ Jan. 02 2014,10:56) QUOTE .... there has to be a compromise between wanting to spend several minutes agonizing over the minutia what one carries, and making quick decisions and wanting to move the hell on. So far the argument has just been WE WANT TO TAKE A LONG TIME THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS SO FUCK YOU GORDON YOU SUCK. It sounds like we need to switch friends. Everyone I play with is like you, and everyone you play with is like me. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 02 2014,11:58
(Leisher @ Jan. 02 2014,13:34) QUOTE Sorting the junk out quickly is easy enough. Once you get close to what you want, you've got to test fire them. You've got to examine the damage, the effects, look at your build, see if the weapon fits, how much ammo it holds, etc. And Gordo, you're wrong about the 5% damage. It was more than that. I kept weapons that did far less damage than ones I discarded. Why? Because the ones I discarded didn't shoot right, had long reload times, etc. But that's all figured out very quickly by firing off a few rounds and comparing some numbers. You also learn from the names of the weapons how they will shoot so you don't even need to fire them. And you should know your build, so it's not like you have to learn your build, study it, figure out what works with it, etc. You've been playing your character for a while. You should know him by now! The most difficult decision I had to make was which weapon to throw away because I wanted to carry so many. So it wasn't about which one does the most damage. It was which one did I need the least. And I didn't have to dwell on the decision for very long. Yes, electric damage hurt robots more than fire, but fire did more damage to everything else than electric. So, I'll go with fire. And if I start seeing nothing but robots for the next 20 minutes, so be it. Fire hurts them too and it's not like we are dying constantly needing to squeeze out every ounce of dps we can from each round sent down range. There's the perfect choice, the good enough choice and the bad choice. It didn't take long to figure out which was the bad choice and get rid of that weapon leaving you with a weapon that was good enough, or a little better. Both of which would work just fine. And I'm talking DPS. Yes, I know some did low damage, but shot fast, etc. You could compare numbers and estimate DPS fairly quicly. And losing 5% of DPS would not make a single bit of difference in that game. Lets face it. Our weapon choices were not made based on "Which one will help me survive this really hard game". It was based on "Which one of these weapons will help me score the kill shot to boost my score/achievements more". The success of the mission did not depend on picking the absolute most perfect bestest weapon. And we had, and used, enough keys to make ANY looted gun decision making process moot. Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 02 2014,12:01
QUOTE And we had, and used, enough keys to make ANY looted gun decision making process moot. Yeah. Got to be like BL1 where the minimum requirement for loot was, "Is it at least high-end purple?" If not, fuck it. QUOTE The success of the mission did not depend on picking the absolute most perfect bestest weapon. I don't remember if we were playing on the "fuck you" difficulty level, but we could have certainly coordinated our elemental use a bit better. Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 02 2014,12:28
Keys did make a bit of a difference. For me inventory management was more about "what should I throw away that will sell for the least to make more space for this slightly higher-priced piece of vendor trash" and "I really want to go to the vendor and unload this stuff now" every few minutes.It physically hurts me to leave dollars lying around the battlefield because my inventory is too full. Must maximize all the monies! Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 02 2014,12:40
QUOTE It physically hurts me to leave dollars lying around the battlefield because my inventory is too full. Must maximize all the monies! I had to apply the purple triage rule to that, too. Not worth hauling around 100 shit guns to sell for X when 5 good guns nets at least ten times that. Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 02 2014,12:41
Ending up buying BG1 and 2 Enhanced Editions if anyone wants to give it a shot.
Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 02 2014,12:58
The more I think about it, the more I think money is perhaps the core difference in styles, at least for me. Most games I play, killing the bad guys is just the way to get them to drop their loot. Collecting the loot and maximizing the dollars is the real core of the game. From my point of view being cavalier about trying to figure out the best way to do that and rushing and leaving loot on the ground is losing at the game.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 02 2014,13:00
You may enjoy a rousing game of Quickbooks, then.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 02 2014,13:04
BL2 was pretty simple for weapons: Level, color, and elemental gave you 90-95% of the information you needed. There were a lot of varieties, but they rarely mattered more than those 3 things.
Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 02 2014,13:20
(GORDON @ Jan. 02 2014,15:00) QUOTE You may enjoy a rousing game of Quickbooks, then. I have indeed been known to, yes. I also really look forward to doing my taxes. Not that I am eager to let Uncle Sam have my money, I just enjoy the challenge. Bitcoin income will make this year extra exciting. |