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Forum: Games Topic: MMOs started by: Leisher Posted by Leisher on Dec. 03 2014,06:44
A thread to place links for games that could be contenders down the road. Strictly MMOs though, so games like Gauntlet or Payday wouldn't fit. This is more ArcheAge, MW:O, UO, etc.< Project Gorgon > < The Repopulation > Posted by Troy on Dec. 03 2014,06:54
< Life is Feudal >The Repopulation is supposed to SWG with an uber complicated, Eve like economy and crafting system. Heard some decent stuff there. Posted by Trooper on Dec. 10 2014,19:10
< Shards Online >Made by Citadel, a company formed by several developers who worked on Ultima Online. Very unique looking, check it out. Just got well over its Kickstarter goal. Posted by Cakedaddy on Dec. 10 2014,22:11
Shards online had me until:64 player limit will be minimum through Alpha/Beta Player run servers Posted by GORDON on Dec. 10 2014,22:50
That's not very M
Posted by Cakedaddy on Dec. 11 2014,00:09
They talk about server clusters, which implies a larger player base. But, they are all player run servers. Admins decide who has god powers, etc. Will be VERY hard/impossible to find a non-corrupt server.
Posted by Vince on Dec. 11 2014,00:10
Crafting in Repopulation seems like the old SWG. Even has bioengineered pets.
Posted by Troy on Dec. 11 2014,07:13
(Vince @ Dec. 11 2014,00:10) QUOTE Crafting in Repopulation seems like the old SWG. Even has bioengineered pets. Tempered my expectations when I found out they aren't doing full pvp loot. Actually they say they are, but only on servers that have the "hardcore" ruleset. Sounds lame. Felucca/Trammel stuff. Posted by Troy on Jan. 22 2015,17:37
Albion Online winter alpha this month. < Preview video looks good > Looks very, very UO. Dunno much about the mechanics besides it's full loot and public economy. < https://albiononline.com/ > Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,04:48
That does look cool.Not sure about: 1. You are what you wear. If you equip a sword, you can dash at your opponent. If you wear a robe, you can heal. Etc. BUT, there is a skill tree where you can specialize. So, they say there are no classes since you can change your cloths to have different abilities. But you can spend skill points to specialize. 2. Crafting. If you are what you wear, does everyone have the ability to craft everything and it comes down to who can collect the resources? Or do I have to be a master blacksmith to make the BF Sword? 3. PvP. Since you can play on a tablet, how will the combat be? Seems like it will be much less intense than UO. However, this could be a good thing for our aging reflexes. I support the tablet play for mundane tasks like crafting/farming. 4. Housing. Can you only build houses in contestable areas? I like being able to conquer lands/castles. But it should be voluntary like PvP. You don't go to PvP zones and you don't have to PvP. Hope there is non-contestable lands as well. 5. Free to play. The thing that concerns me the most. But, the game does look playable and fun. I have much higher hopes for this one than I did for Archeage. It's all going to come down to how they want to get paid. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,04:50
If people are considering this, we need to organize before spending money. If we do it right, one of us could end up with a free founders pack through referrals.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,05:31
I have only skimmed. . . but the pay to win economy seems real to me.You pay for gold. You buy other player's silver with your gold. You buy weapons in game with silver. Devs argue that this does not give an advantage because I can kill the player who just bought his sword with cash and take it. Now that player doesn't have his 'advantage'. Plus, he had to buy the silver from another player and then buy the sword from another player. So there is no direct 'buy sword with cash' transaction. Other players are getting paid, so the 'advantage' is being spread out. However, and this is the key. . . . resources are limited. The game only produces X amount of silver and X amount of resources per day. So, people that buy gold, to convert to silver to buy the limited resources will win. I can not kill monsters fast enough for my silver to compete with the guy who buys his with gold. He will ALWAYS beat me to the sword. Now granted, the cost of silver goes up and he will have to spend more cash to get it. But, the option will always be there. Someone will always be selling silver for gold. But the devs counter with "You can kill him and take that sword". Well, good. However, he can immediately buy another. And then another. The guild with the most cash will always be better equipped than the guild that does not. I would have to win more than I lose. He does not. MANY players argue that it is NOT pay to win because of this or that. But, my take on what I'm reading is above. Posted by Troy on Jan. 23 2015,08:38
I need to delve deeper in this one, looks like you did some good analysis though.That same "pay to win" was true in EVE too, to be fair. It didn't make it less fun when you blew up and then stole the guy's expensive modules. Actually, it almost made it better - you knew how much he paid and how much you just stole from him in monetary value. e: the tablet version won't be in on the Alpha, it's not ready and I don't know exactly when it will be. I'm thinking it's a bit ambitious - though I have heard the game is very good at using resources. It's just that no-one has tested the pvp/crafting/doing-shit on a tablet yet. e2: I don't like the FTP thing either, call me old fashioned but I've liked subscription based games so much more than any FTP game I've tried. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,09:50
Did a little more skimming. I got the impression that you own personal land, and then there is guild land that is fought over. So, that's cool, if correct.However, there are taxes/upkeep that you pay. Not sure how much or how. But it's there. This is something I agree with. It should be easy/cheap to own a little land, expensive/hard to own a lot. Archeage did this well, I think. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,10:00
As far as pay to win: This may not bother me as much as I thought it might. You read enough people raging about it, and you start to think it's a problem. I have always supported in game resources for RL cash. There are those with no cash but lots of time and those with no time and lots of cash. They should be able to work something out. And this game lets them. The game does not sell them uber items, only the means to purchase them from other players. Even if the game didn't support it, there would always be the Chinese gold farmers making it possible.Guild fights for land: They wanted small guilds to be able to participate. So, fights for land are a 5v5 tournament type fight. Each side picks their 5 best fighters and they battle it out. Again, this allows smaller guilds to participate in guild land ownership/conquering. We used to fight in LoL 5v5 matches where we lost nothing. Wonder what these fights will do to us. :-) Posted by Troy on Jan. 23 2015,10:02
I didn't know that about 5v5s, that sounds awesome.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 23 2015,10:11
I'm interested, but not. I'm really enjoying MW:O for multi and slowly climbing my pile of shame when nobody is on. I don't want to walk into another ArcheAge, and to me, there's some red flags here. First, it does look P2W. In fact, Cake's entire breakdown pretty much tells me not to bother with the game. Second, they're in alpha and seem to be planning to be there a LONG time. Third, the inclusion of tablets is cool, but scary. How dumbed down is this going to be for tablets? Fourth, combat looks stupid. I'd pay a subscription MMO where everyone is equal over a F2P MMO with P2W. Posted by Troy on Jan. 23 2015,10:26
Interested, but not available for the first winter Alpha anyway. On trial until mid Feb, and then vacation. If the buzz continues to be good I'll give it a go in their Q2 2015 Alpha. e: Leisher, having only done MWO a few times, how it is it different from someone buying credits and then splurging on all the best mechs and weapons? You can't even balance the scale by killing them and taking it from them, they always have it. Posted by Leisher on Jan. 23 2015,10:40
QUOTE e: Leisher, having only done MWO a few times, how it is it different from someone buying credits and then splurging on all the best mechs and weapons? You can't even balance the scale by killing them and taking it from them, they always have it. That's not how it works. There is no "best mech" or "best weapon". Yes, there are hero and champion mechs only available with real money, but they aren't better than the free variants. You can earn more XP or cbills (in game currency) with them, but it's not an edge in any way shape or form. New mechs go through a window where they can only be purchased with real money, like LoL does with new champions, but again, owning them doesn't mean shit in terms of competitiveness. ANY mech and ANY weapon can kill any other. The other thing you can buy is premium time which allows you to earn more cbills and XP in matches, again that doesn't translate AT ALL to the match. This isn't AA where you need money to own land or to do even the most basic things. Everything else you can spend money on is aesthetics. The biggest example is the gold mech that was being sold for $500 dollars. It gave you absolutely NO advantage over the same mech bought for cbills in game. In fact, it was a disadvantage because everyone wants to kill that mech. MW:O and LoL are the only F2P games I've seen/played that have no P2W feature. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,12:13
How is a F2P where the devs sell gold any different from a subscription based game where the Chinese sell gold. Every MMO, from now on, will have a pay to win option either by the Devs or by the Chinese.And frankly, someone buying a sword that I can take from them doesn't bother me. Plus, with guild warfare played out in 5v5 matches, again, not sure gold wins that fight. If there is open guild warfare like there was in UO, I think that could have an impact. But it would only hurt some people. I would point out that TKV in UO was always out numbered, and in the early days, very poor. However, we still won. Eventually, we were more wealthy than our opponents. But I don't think them buying a bunch of gold would have helped them. We were just better than them. Right Troy? ;-) I'll also point out that much of the bitching about pay to win was more along the lines of: I play for 10 hours mining resources and gathering materials, crafting items, etc to get the BF sword. Joe rich guy can swipe a card and in 5 minutes have the same sword. That's not fair. He should have to spend 10 hours in the game getting the sword too. And I think that's a stupid complaint. Over all, I'm not stressing the pay to win aspect of the game yet. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,12:20
As far as MW:O, I would argue that dumping cash in the game to buy consumables does give you an advantage.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 23 2015,13:20
(Cakedaddy @ Jan. 23 2015,12:13) QUOTE We were just better than them. Right Troy? ;-) Almost all of them. hahaha. Also, I get the worry and critcisms, but it also looks like a game I need to try this year. As far as open PVP, I saw this on another forum: QUOTE You won't be PvP fodder the first day. The newbie areas are more or less protected and the game really ramps you up into the PvP zones slowly. I found the process to move to them quite natural and I was pretty prepped although nervous the first time I went deeper. I like that. Also think the "gear=class and skills" is a lot like EVE, come to think of it. Fantasy EVE online with a UO perspective and scale. That's pie in the sky, but it could be excellent. They could also fuck it up, so, so bad. I'll post some Alpha reactions when I see them next week. Posted by Leisher on Jan. 23 2015,13:27
QUOTE How is a F2P where the devs sell gold any different from a subscription based game where the Chinese sell gold Huge difference. How can you not see that? One is available to all players. The other is only available to the pathetic losers who even know about them and seek them out. One is the developers themselves destroying their own economy in a mad dash for cash. The other actually has someone spending the time to earn the gold. And let's be honest, we could list the differences for days. QUOTE Every MMO, from now on, will have a pay to win option either by the Devs or by the Chinese. Then I'm all done with MMOs. That was easy! QUOTE I would point out that TKV in UO was always out numbered, and in the early days, very poor. However, we still won. Eventually, we were more wealthy than our opponents. But I don't think them buying a bunch of gold would have helped them. We were just better than them. That worked in UO, but that's like saying you should be great at FPSs because you hunt in real life. UO gad no P@W option, so you don't know how that would have affected things. In AA, we had people playing CONSTANTLY, and I didn't see us dominating shit. QUOTE I'll also point out that much of the bitching about pay to win was more along the lines of: I play for 10 hours mining resources and gathering materials, crafting items, etc to get the BF sword. Joe rich guy can swipe a card and in 5 minutes have the same sword. That's not fair. He should have to spend 10 hours in the game getting the sword too. And I think that's a stupid complaint. Is it as stupid as complaining about developers giving you free mechs? And your example isn't stupid because it kills games. QUOTE As far as MW:O, I would argue that dumping cash in the game to buy consumables does give you an advantage. I would disagree completely. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,14:03
It's not hard to find the Chinese selling the gold. You don't have to look for them, they find you. You spent enough time in AA to know that.We don't know for sure that the economy is being destroyed. We only know that some players will have more gold than other players. But as soon as they buy something from other players, then other players have more gold. Plus, there's gold which is bought with cash, and silver which is the in game currency. I don't know how they interact with each other. Don't know what impact the gold will have on the economy. I don't even know how gold is spent in the game. This is the circular argument going on on their forums. No one knows anything yet. It's all speculation. People who have actually played the game say that it's not pay to win. But no one believes them. So, who knows. All done with MMOs? That's too bad. They are fun. UO DID have pay to win options. Did you never look at EBay? I participated in that market in a big way. Hell, I'd argue that I paid to win the real estate part of the game. Richard Garriot once bragged about how UO gold was worth more than the Italian dollar (whatever it's called). To know that implies there was a RL market for in game goods. And the devs even knew about it and were proud of it. I'm pissed that I spent the time getting it the way I did. I would have much rather spread the playing out over two weekends. Had I known that was an option, I would have. But I was lead to believe that I had to do it all in one. Finding out that I tortured myself needlessly has me a little upset. I REALLY wish I had known that I didn't have to work so hard last weekend. Would have been awesome to know that ahead of time. I'm not bitching because they gave me a free mech. I'm bitching because knowing I could have done it over two weekends instead of one would have been nice. Not sure which example of mine kills games. So a guy dumping 15 airstrikes per game that he buys with cash isn't an advantage? Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 23 2015,15:14
QUOTE Hell, I'd argue that I paid to win the real estate part of the game. Real estate in that game was premium because the UO world was the size of goddamn Disneyland and you couldn't hack down a tree or dig out a rock that was in the way of your house footprint. You could always get vanq/invuln whatever or buy a twinked account or gold. Granted, you were going through third parties to do so, but as long as in-game item transfer exists, that option will always be on the table. Posted by Leisher on Jan. 23 2015,15:15
QUOTE It's not hard to find the Chinese selling the gold. You don't have to look for them, they find you. You spent enough time in AA to know that. That's on Trion. They did basically nothing to stop the gold spammers. QUOTE We don't know for sure that the economy is being destroyed. There is no such thing as a working game economy where the vast majority of the population works for everything, while a small percentage pays for everything. The people paying for everything always break the economy. We saw that in AA. QUOTE People who have actually played the game say that it's not pay to win. But no one believes them. A lot of folks said AA wasn't P2W... QUOTE All done with MMOs? That's too bad. They are fun. They can be, but the current trend isn't about fun. It's about maximizing profit quickly before a game dies. That's not fun. You complain about MW:O destroying a sense of achievement you got out of a single weekend. Imagine how I felt watching Trion let people buy their way above me instantly or cheat without repercussion negating my two months of hard work. Fun! QUOTE UO DID have pay to win options. Did you never look at EBay? No, that's not UO having the option and yes, there's a difference. Plus, that's not for me. I'm all for selling your hard work, but buying it for a game? I can't wrap my head around that logic. It's like the GTA V promotion Steam currently has where you get $1,000,000 in game when you start. Unless you are crazy busy in real life, what's the point? If you have a million dollars, why are you getting involved in some criminal empire? Just retire! What are you working hard for at that point? Buying progress in a game is the dumbest trend in gaming history. Soon people will just install games and download a save point right before the end. What fun! QUOTE I'm pissed that I spent the time getting it the way I did. I would have much rather spread the playing out over two weekends. Had I known that was an option, I would have. But I was lead to believe that I had to do it all in one. Finding out that I tortured myself needlessly has me a little upset. I REALLY wish I had known that I didn't have to work so hard last weekend. Would have been awesome to know that ahead of time. I'm not bitching because they gave me a free mech. I'm bitching because knowing I could have done it over two weekends instead of one would have been nice. You have a right to be upset about it as I told Gordon. However, as I pointed out there, this was a last minute decision on their part. They didn't know they were doing this as nothing was originally scheduled. QUOTE Not sure which example of mine kills games. The only example you gave... Also, it's been covered in the economy stuff. QUOTE So a guy dumping 15 airstrikes per game that he buys with cash isn't an advantage? No because you can't do that. Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 23 2015,15:19
QUOTE Soon people will just install games and download a save point right before the end. Fuck that. Buying and installing things. Watch it on Twitch. Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 23 2015,15:46
QUOTE You complain about MW:O destroying a sense of achievement you got out of a single weekend. No. I didn't. I bought EVE money from Catt once. I still had many many many hours of fun in that game. I just didn't have to spend my game time making money. I was able to just buy the ship and go fight. Not sure how that is ruining the experience for me. If I don't enjoy one aspect of a game, but love another, why not do what I can to minimize the first and maximize the second? Just because YOU like to do every mundane thing in a game to 'complete' it doesn't mean I have to. I don't have to do everything YOU like to do in order to enjoy a game. I'll pay you $5 to do what I consider mundane bullshit in a game so that I don't have to. Posted by Leisher on Jan. 23 2015,15:53
(Cakedaddy @ Jan. 23 2015,18:46) QUOTE QUOTE You complain about MW:O destroying a sense of achievement you got out of a single weekend. No. I didn't. I bought EVE money from Catt once. I still had many many many hours of fun in that game. I just didn't have to spend my game time making money. I was able to just buy the ship and go fight. Not sure how that is ruining the experience for me. If I don't enjoy one aspect of a game, but love another, why not do what I can to minimize the first and maximize the second? Just because YOU like to do every mundane thing in a game to 'complete' it doesn't mean I have to. I don't have to do everything YOU like to do in order to enjoy a game. I'll pay you $5 to do what I consider mundane bullshit in a game so that I don't have to. That sentence is what you're going to pick out of my response to try and hang your hat on as if it wins you the argument? Well crafted. The problem is you're contradicting yourself in both threads. So are you for mundane work or do you want your P2W shortcuts? I'm losing track. Posted by Troy on Jan. 23 2015,16:16
(Leisher @ Jan. 23 2015,15:15) QUOTE It's like the GTA V promotion Steam currently has where you get $1,000,000 in game when you start. Unless you are crazy busy in real life, what's the point? If you have a million dollars, why are you getting involved in some criminal empire? Just retire! This is great. lol'd e: not sure what ya'll are arguing about otherwise, i'm sure it'll sort itself out Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 23 2015,16:36
(Cakedaddy @ Jan. 23 2015,13:00) QUOTE As far as pay to win: This may not bother me as much as I thought it might... There are those with no cash but lots of time and those with no time and lots of cash. They should be able to work something out. And this game lets them. The game does not sell them uber items, only the means to purchase them from other players. Even if the game didn't support it, there would always be the Chinese gold farmers making it possible. It certainly doesn't bother me. As long as it's not excessive. I have a shit-ton more money than I have time. Posted by Troy on Jan. 28 2015,19:57
On how to grow a mount for riding (which I think you can kill and loot)QUOTE "You have to level up your farming first, on your farmlands plant carrots. After they completely grow, 1-3 hours ( not sure what time period is ), you can harvest them. Once you gain 80 fame doing this, you will unlock baby chickens. Now place a pasture, drop some baby chickens here. Continue to plant carrots. Feed your chickens the carrots you harvested. Chicken has to be fully fed to grow to maturity. Continue this cycle until you have 450 fame. Now you should unlock corn, baby goats, baby horses T3 and baby oxen T3. Place the animals in the pasture and feed them. 24 hours later you will have a mature animal, that you can take to the saddler, with 30 T3 leather ( horse ), 30 T3 wood ( ox ). Now craft the mount. Following this procedure you should have a mount in 2-3 days. "
Posted by Troy on Jan. 29 2015,15:27
Instanced Islands vs Plots in NPC Cities vs Plots out in the Open Game World (the game has three)QUOTE There's a few difference between territories. Islands don't cost upkeep besides feeding and repairing your structures and you can build up to tier 5. City plots you need to pay an upkeep to the city of silver or gold and other players can pay you to use your buildings. Guild plots need to be fed and can be attacked through a GvG siege system. There are a few different guild plots like farming, mining, and general guild. Those were all added in this alpha so they're being balanced and none of this is representative of the final product.
But for this alpha, if you want to raise baby chickens and do some farming just buy an island and set up farm plots in it. Cheap, easy and quick to get started. Posted by Troy on Jan. 31 2015,08:30
QUOTE We had a group of 13 or so on at 10pm EST going to run dungeons to raise silver for players and the guild. We went to a spot we usually like to hit up not far from us, but also not far from allies. When you enter a cluster it tells you how many people are in it, so you know when you're not alone. We grouped up and sent out messages to make sure we didn't run up behind an allied dungeon group. After a few minutes we started running through because no one replied. When we were finally right before the end of the dungeon we saw purple allied names slowly working down mobs. Their excuse was "oh yeah we disable chat while in combat so we don't get distracted"... A bunch of our guys lost their cool, as you can expect would happen after anticipating a big fight and the possibility of good loot. So we decided to steal their last hits on bosses and mobs so we get all the fame (experience) and they get none, ninja loot all of the corpses and quick pull without stopping to heal. This got one of their officers killed, and to be honest I don't know if we did or didn't loot her body. Doesn't matter, we kept pushing through while their guys kept yelling "Oi!" at us in local and alliance chat.
We ran straight through the boss's room, who can 2 shot people, and apparently got another few of them killed by doing that. Once we got out the rest is as described. They strategically hid behind trees even though their names were glaringly obvious to see. At one point they were trying to demand satisfaction through a 1v1 duel. Probably as close to shooting blues as you can get in Albion without dropping guild. Posted by Troy on Feb. 04 2015,07:50
< Twitch stream of a 5v5 fight >. Looks promising for an early alpha.e: dude's mike is real loud |