Topic: Supreme Commander 2
started by: Cakedaddy
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2014,13:14
Started a new thread so we don't derail the general game thread. This may be over kill, but who cares.There are 4 of us playing tonight so far. Teams or FFA?
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 01 2014,13:31
I purchased the DLC, "Infinite Wars" or whatever. I got the receipt that says I bought it. It is not appearing in my steam library. How do I know it is there?
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2014,13:44
Right click SC2 and 'check dlc' or something like that. There's a right click option that talks about dlc.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 01 2014,13:57
Ok I guess it is there.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 01 2014,14:30
If you launch the game, you'll see a check box that says something like "include the DLC content".Also, I think we need a rule for us noobs. Like no attacking prior to 10 minutes or something.
I am going to get CRUSHED. Let's do FFA as I don't want to drag anyone down, and if I get eliminated, I can watch football while waiting for the next one.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 01 2014,14:36
I've played SC2 for exactly 21 minutes, as of right now. Those minutes were about 2 years ago.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 01 2014,14:38
I'm very disappointed that you haven't yet figured out that while Cake has been mocking you for wanting to play games you're familiar with, and thus, will win, he's got us all playing a game he's familiar with and we're not.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 01 2014,15:04
He and I had that conversation a long time ago. For a while we multid X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter. I kicked his ass. He stopped wanting to play. Then he and I multi'd Homeworld once or twice. I kicked his ass. He stopped wanting to play.I very well could have thrown the accusation back at him, and the thought to do so occurred to me, but I have more class than that.
Sometimes I feel like I am the Andre of this group, and I am just supposed to enjoy being shat upon because that is my place.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 01 2014,15:21
QUOTE
Sometimes I feel like I am the Andre of this group, and I am just supposed to enjoy being shat upon because that is my place.
Nah, you're Ruxin.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2014,15:22
We did Multi XvT and you kicked my ass. Then we did co-op, and I couldn't hang with that. Then I bought a new joystick to play better, and we didn't play any more. I think our other goal was to find an updated version of that genre to play. Never revisited it. I would play again because it was fun. But I liked co-op better because it wasn't you beating me. I HATE losing to you.I have never owned, played or even watch a game of Homeworld. That wasn't me.
I would have named SupCom1, if I had it installed because I knew Gordon would play that. But I don't, so I didn't. BUT, my awesome wife lurks these threads and saw that my SupCom was in storage. She went there yesterday, in the cold, and dug it out for me. So, I have it, but it is not installed. It will be. Then we can play that too. Our thread was going on too long about which one we should play. I decided to man up and just call a game. I also wanted to see if Troy would REALLY be allowed to play with us. Troy was the better SupCom2 player. So I expect to lose to him. So, still not picking the game I knew I'd win. That would be TA. NO ONE can beat me at TA. I'd even go so far as to say I could 1v2 anyone here. :-)
As far as tonight's games. . . I'd rather have teams. I'd put the skill levels at:
Troy
Cakedaddy
Gordon
Leisher
Stranger
With Leisher and Stranger possibly being interchangeable. Gordon's SupCom1 experience will help him in SC2. I can't beat a hard AI yet. So, I'm not very far ahead of others.
I'm thinking Teams could be:
Troy, Leisher vs Gordon, Cake, Stranger. And yes, Troy was that much better than us. I remember doing a 3 way where he pretty much attacked one of us (me) and then the other (Gordon). Neither of us attacked him and Gordon lasted WAY longer than I did because he had a really long turtle time. But he still won.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 01 2014,15:53
I don't think i'm great at Sup Comm 2, personally. And to prove that Cake already beat me 1 on 1 tonight. We'll see what happens when I remember how to play. I don't think it will be that much different but we'll see.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2014,16:18
Ya, I've had about 10 practice games against hard AI and trying to copy/learn from him. You play your first game in however long and I barely beat you. A couple more games, I'm sure you'll be back.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 01 2014,16:30
This is a lot different from SC1, interface-wise. I'm pretty much lost at this point.How do you set your forces in formation?
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2014,18:56
I don't know. I never did that in SC1 though either.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 01 2014,19:09
(Cakedaddy @ Jan. 01 2014,21:56)
QUOTE
I don't know. I never did that in SC1 though either.
How did you move a mixture of units and make sure they got there at the same time, with shields spread out, artillery in back, etc?
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2014,21:59
I'm not sure I did. . . I was more about quantity than quality I think. But then, I never got as good at the game as you did.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 02 2014,07:28
I thought the FFA's were some of the better fun I've had. The game definetly balances itself out, if you start to pull ahead the other players make you pay. Like Leisher getting his 40 virgins at the expense of Cake's base, for example.
2v2 would be good too, if we get 4 players on at some point.
Edit: the internet says it's 72 virgins
Posted by Troy on Jan. 02 2014,08:18
Experimental list pulled from the SupCom2 wikiUEF Experimentals
The UEF is known for its brutal prowess, and shows it frequently on the battlefield by using advanced ways of old-school war tactics.
Fatboy II Experimental Assault Vehicle
The Fatboy II is a remake of the incredibly powerful original Fatboy from Supreme Commander 1. The design of the Fatboy has changed, now operating on 4 treads and losing its purpose as a mobile factory, and turning into a long-range offensive tank. The fatboy is primarily an assault unit. It has one of the longest ranges in the game, so put it behind your main force. Do note, it has more power and equal range to the UEF Poseidon Battleship, until the "Stacked Cannon" research upgrade for naval units.
AC-1000 Terror Experimental Assault Plane
This mighty gunship is inspired by the AC-130 Spectre used in modern warfare today. It slowly circles its enemies and possesses incredible fire-power, but has fairly low health and won't survive long against formidable Anti-Air defenses.
C-230 Star King Extreme Experimental Air Transport
The Star King is the UEF main way of transporting its experimental units across the battlefield. This very large transport can also transport up to 75 other additional units, but can get easily harassed or even destroyed by a group of Anti-Air fighters, so it should be escorted when delivering experimentals.
Air Fortress Experimental Mobile Factory
The Air Fortress is a more cost-effective air factory in the late game, producing the same air units as an air factory, at a fraction of the cost and time. It is also a mobile factory, meaning you can launch a surprise air assault very close to your opponents base.
Atlantis II Experimental Aircraft Carrier
The Atlantis II has made its comeback into Supreme Commander 2, from its predecessor the original Atlantis. It has the same purpose and abilities through, possessing the ability to submerge while it is amassing a large air force, and emerging to unleash that force onto an unprepared opponent.
Disruptor Station Experimental Quantum Distortion Artillery
The Disruptor is a very effective four-barrelled long-range artillery, possessing the ability to shock enemy targets upon impact of its 'quantum distortion' shells. Having four-barrels, it is a more cost-effective solution to sharp-shooting your opponent in comparison to an equal amount of Long-range Artilleries.
King Kriptor Experimental Assault Bot
The King Kriptor is the Universal Colossus inspired, UEF major experimental. It possesses much more fire-power than its inspiree, wielding multiple cannons and artillery to unleash havoc unto it's opponents. It compensates for this by having significantly less health, though will slightly beat it in a fight.
Noah Experimental Unit Cannon
The Noah is the most creative weapon in the UEF's arsenal, possessing the same range as the Disruptor, it can launch small armies across the map without having to build any transports. It also serves as an advanced factory, making the same land units as a UEF land factory, in a fraction of the time and cost.
Illuminate Experimentals
The Illuminate use the alien technology adopted from the Seraphim to great potential, flexing their great knowledge of quantum technology to great heights.
Urchinow Experimental Assault Block
The Urchinow may resemble a large sea shell, but is known to be a very powerful offensive unit. Possessing incredible fire-power in groups of three or more, Urchinows can be force to be reckoned with, having the capability of taking down an entire base on their own.
Wilfindja Experimental Sea Hunter
Lacking the use of a navy, the Illuminate make up for this loss with the use of the Wilfindja. This sea hunter is attacks its enemies with a series of drones, to quickly defeat even a sumerged naval unit with the advantage of firing at all angles against the ship.
Airnomo Experimental Air Defense
The Airnomo utilizes quick flying projectiles to tear apart any incoming enemy air force. Though it does have Anti-Ground weapons, it moves quite slowly and these 'arm cannons' are highly in-effective, so it is recommended you don't send it in alone.
Space Temple Experimental Teleporter
The Space Temple shows-off the Illuminates tenacity towards using teleporting technology. It can transport a massive land force across the map in no-time, but it's a two-way teleporter, so your enemy can use it to send a force right back at you.
Pulinsmash Experimental Mobile Unit Magnet
The Pulinsmash uses tremendous experimental technology to great effectiveness, harnessing the ability to generate a magnetic field to suck in two enemy units and smash them together. It can suck in both ground units and air units, but it cannot suck in experimentals. Due to its situational usefulness, many people avoid building this unit altogether. However, many people fail to consider the fact that against non-experimental aircraft these units are the best anti-air in the game, with a much better range then the Airnomo and more firepower in the late game since it ignores shields and health completely, instantly destroying the unit. This makes it an amazing late game counter to things like gunship spam.
Universal Colossus Experimental Assault Bot
The Universal Colossus in the successor to the Galactic Colossus of the first Supreme Commander . The massive assault bot still uses its predecessor's ability to suck in units with its 'globular grippers', but now has the ability to shoot the debris of units back at the opponent, and when combined with its central 'eye' beam, is a devastating force. The Colossus has one of the largest health reserves of any units or structures in the game, second only to the Cybran Monkeylord Experimental Spiderbot, wielding a massive 67,500 health points!
Loyalty Gun Experimental Conversion Ray
The Loyalty Gun uses the very effective capturing ability built with an engineer and ACU to new heights. This stand-alone long-range conversion ray, can capture units and structures from great distances, and can even capture Experimental Land units.feromegoero,tor,rtyyul;ktssettrhetttys
Darkenoid Experimental Giant Saucer
The successor to the Czar, the Darkenoid is an enemy base's greatest nightmare. When active, it fires both multiple light lasers, heavy bombs and the characteristic weapon of the Czar, the quantum beam. And when destroyed it still deals enormous damage. 1,000 tons of falling wreckage isn't anything to sneeze at.
Sooprizer Experimental Gunship
This giant gunship is the illuminate version of the soul ripper. The sooprizer is a powerful gunship, and a major experimental of the illuminate. It has considerably less frepower than the soul ripper, but compensates by having many more HP. It will beat the soul ripper in a 1on1 fight though. 10 sooprizers (are overkill) will thrash ANY base they come up against ( with the exception of a hard AI base, and my base.) Plus when the sooprizers die, they do a lot of damage, so even if the attack fails, a large portion of the opponents base will die.
Cybran Experimentals
Dr. Brackman has created some of the finest experimentals the game has seen, and is known for their great battlefield effectiveness.
Megalith II Experimental Megabot
The Megalith II is the next model from Supreme Commander 1's original Megalith, and combines its firepower with Supreme Commander 1's Monkeylord's lasers. It is the spearhead for Cybran land force, being researched early in the tech tree so quick and easy access.
Giant Transport Experimental Air Transport
The Giant Transport is the Cybran's equivalent to the UEF's Star King, having the same ability of transporting Experimental units over the battlefield, but with greater speed and more powerful Anti-Air, so it could go without that big of an escort.
Proto-Brain Complex Experimental Research Facility
The Proto-Brain Complex is a 'homage' to Dr. Brackman himself, apply his antic's of research on the battlefield, to greatly increase research development. It also has a stand-alone Proto-brain air unit, which is effective at defending it.
Kraken Experimental Giant Submarine
As the name implies the Kraken resembles the great mythological creature, and it is just as fearsome on the battlefield. It wields eight mighty tentacles, capable of engaging all forms of enemy targets. Pros: Can engage any unit that it can reach, high health; Cons: Weak weapon, limited to sea.
Magnetron Experimental Unit Magnet
The Magnetron uses similar quantum technology to that of the Pulinsmash, but to more defensive capabilities. It can be either set to pulling in units from fair distances away, or to push away invading land units for defense.
Bomb Bouncer Experimental Reflector Shield
The Bomb Bouncer is the Cybran's main way of securing Anti-Air defense, harnessing the power of 'bouncing bombs' launch at its massive reflector shield. It also has the power to unleash a devastating 'megablast' capable of destroying land and air units within its radius. Bomb bouncers are a great gunship counter, and their overcharge one-shots any units except experimentals and ACU's.
Cybranasaurus Rex Experimental Lizardbot
The Cybranasaurus Rex is the Cybran's major offensive experimental unit, but unlike the King Kriptor or Universal Colossus, it is down and low and can get up-close and personal to an enemy ACU. Though it is smaller than then the other major offensive experimentals, it doesn't lack any fire-power whatsoever. On another note, Cybranasaurus Rexes more firepower and more health than the other major experimentals, so they are a good unit to drop into an enemy's base where it stomps around crushing buildings until it is blown up. This is a very powerful assault unit. It is a building destroyer. Drop it in when you can.
Soul Ripper II Experimental Gunship
Arguably the most effective offensive unit in the game, the Soul Ripper II matches its predecessor's fire-power to great potential. With the ability of engaging land, naval and air units, groups of these devastating units is quite an incredible force indeed.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 02 2014,08:24
Shit, the Monkeylord isn't on this list, which means it doesn't include the DLC units. Oh well.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 02 2014,08:37
Gonna have to start skirmishing in my free time so i no longer need to waste time pondering upgrades and units and shit.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 02 2014,09:07
The games were fun. I think for co-op, we need to find the right mix of AI to make it challenging. For FFA, I'm a mere distraction.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 02 2014,09:22
I think 4 of us vs 2 Hard AI would be a solid goal. I was impressed with the AI's tactics, cheating be damned. In our first co-op AI-beat-down, it teched fast to nukes and head-shotted me 10m into the game. dick
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 02 2014,09:25
In SC1 sometimes the AIX (cheating) AI would fast track nukes and start launching them. I learned that just to be safe, 10 minute into the game I had to take my commander out in the middle of nowhere where he wouldn't be noticed, and set a big patrol circle. When the nukes started firing they would target where my commander IS.... not where he will be when the nuke strikes. So I would spend a couple hours worth of game with my commander out walking in a big circle while the enemy launches 75 nukes at him until I had enough of an army to invade his cheating-ass base.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 02 2014,10:23
I forgot about the Cybran's shields bouncing your shots. As you assault them, you are shooting yourself in the face.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 02 2014,11:08
(Cakedaddy @ Jan. 02 2014,10:23)
QUOTE
I forgot about the Cybran's shields bouncing your shots. As you assault them, you are shooting yourself in the face.
I didn't even know that unit existed. Building it for sure next time.
Also, will use less expensive experimental transports as front line combat units.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 02 2014,12:04
I think their shields do it by default. I pointed out my artillery shells bouncing off it it last night. I just didn't equate it to hitting myself in the face because it was long range. But I remember in SC1 trying to get into your base and taking out 15% of my assaulting squad myself.
Posted by Stranger on Jan. 03 2014,07:11
i've done some research on all the units in this game. I now know what units are good for AA, bombers, and how the experimentals are built. The other night I was randomly building any old unit and just throwing them into battle not knowing what they are good for. On top of that i don't think i was doing a good job researching what i really should have been.I found that i have been playing the Illuminate faction, they don't have any naval units. Instead most of their ground units have the ability to hover over water.
I look forward to playing some more of this game tonight if anyone else is interested.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 03 2014,12:13
I haven't studied shit, and I don't plan to either. I've got other games to play. So continue to expect me to be your cannon fodder. It's like I'm a Marine!I'll be on tonight.
Posted by Stranger on Jan. 03 2014,12:38
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... We can be on a team Leisher. We will just focus on Cake and then get Gordo when he tries to backdoor one of us. Cause Gordo likes to go backdoor as we all know
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 03 2014,12:43
Oy vey.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 03 2014,12:47
If you focus me, then Troy with his lame op early experimental faction will take you out.
Posted by Stranger on Jan. 03 2014,12:50
i know we only played one FFA game, but if my memory serves me correctly didn't you (Cake) destroy Troy very early? i'd say you have a pretty good early game build also.And i know when Gordo beat me he had what i think was Minor Exp coming at me, so he was strong early also.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 03 2014,12:52
The first person to attack me in any game can expect a commander bomb.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 03 2014,13:02
(Stranger @ Jan. 03 2014,15:50)
QUOTE
i know we only played one FFA game, but if my memory serves me correctly didn't you (Cake) destroy Troy very early? i'd say you have a pretty good early game build also.
And i know when Gordo beat me he had what i think was Minor Exp coming at me, so he was strong early also.
And i know when Gordo beat me he had what i think was Minor Exp coming at me, so he was strong early also.
No no no....
I had three.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 03 2014,15:48
In that game, Troy tried to expand the map too early. He was building for resources, I was building for early damage. Then Gordon said "Oh, hello Troy" and that was my queue to make my attack because I gambled that Troy had sent all of his units to Steve. I took one of his bases easily, and the second took heavy damage. He was too spread out and couldn't protect. Meanwhile, I'm still cranking out level 1 bots. I attack again and pin his commander down. Meanwhile, Gordon is attacking me with friggin' experimentals. Those things he killed you with since you let him turtle the whole game! Troy is a quick study and won't make those mistakes again. And also, I will have some fighters on patrol waiting for the next Commander bomb.So, take me out early. I'm up for the challenge! But just know, there are two more that won't think twice about taking you out!
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 03 2014,15:49
And ya, by two more, I meant Troy and Gordon. Leisher just plays in his own little sand box in the corner building who knows what. . .
Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 03 2014,17:18
Sounds like Leisher and I playing an RTS against each other would lead to flourishing civilizations and world peace.I have never won any multiplayer RTS game. But I make some very nice buildings.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 03 2014,17:39
QUOTE
Sounds like Leisher and I playing an RTS against each other would lead to flourishing civilizations and world peace.
I just don't understand why there has to be so much violence.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 03 2014,17:41
(Leisher @ Jan. 03 2014,20:39)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Sounds like Leisher and I playing an RTS against each other would lead to flourishing civilizations and world peace.
I just don't understand why there has to be so much violence.
You sound like my wife playing Civilization.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 03 2014,17:46
(TheCatt @ Jan. 03 2014,20:41)
QUOTE
(Leisher @ Jan. 03 2014,20:39)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Sounds like Leisher and I playing an RTS against each other would lead to flourishing civilizations and world peace.
I just don't understand why there has to be so much violence.
You sound like my wife playing Civilization.
My wife played Grand Theft Auto once. During her 20 minutes playing all she did was get in a car and drive around while obeying all traffic laws.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 03 2014,22:22
Still digging this game over any other multi at the moment... BUT, I just got onsite for a 2.5 week trial, so my playtime is curtailed for a bit.
Maybe Cake can find a counter to my spiders by then.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 04 2014,00:47
The only counter is. . . not to play.And I have a counter. So, bring it.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 10 2014,11:38
My kid's copy came in the mail today.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 10 2014,14:06
I'm sure he's already better than Catt, TPR, and I...unless he plays SC2 the same way he played LoL. If that's the case, I'll wipe the floor with him.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 10 2014,14:38
I had a 'bash Gordon's kid' post too. But that's just mean. It's not his fault Gordon's his dad. It would be like teasing a retarded kid. Not that Gordon's kid is retarded. But, he IS Gordon's offspring. . . man, this isn't coming out at ALL how I meant it to. . . .
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 10 2014,15:23
I'm just surprised you all acknowledge he's actually mine.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 10 2014,15:30
I can't believe you just typed that. . . .
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 10 2014,17:29
I can't believe he overlooked that you never said "biological dad".
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 10 2014,18:56
That's better.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 10 2014,22:41
Stranger = (MadM right?)Anyway, Stanger did a killer job tonight despite me being completely incoherent on the comms. Mad props for that.
I can only image him hearing PPPGMMMSK#K)$)(!!! and then random pings appearing on the screen.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 11 2014,00:08
He was FAR more productive than I expected him to be. Last time we played, he was asking the most newbish questions. . .I'd be interested in a 1v1 between him and Gordon to see who would win.
And, I'm giving up on the strong late game army. I'm going to counter your early OP armies with an early OP army.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 11 2014,12:58
In SupCom1 I could counter early OP armies by building early OP defense/turtling. I have not yet figured out if that is possible in 2... so far, not possible. The level 1 defense turrets are weaker than their 1 counterparts, and it is not possible to build walls.So far, early impressions is that 2 has much less depth than 1. Granted, am still far from having that be my final answer. It just feels like they made everything twice as easy to kill and simplified the resource gathering aspect, and called that the solution to marathon games.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 11 2014,14:16
I liked being able to upgrade factories and having more "levels" of units too. But 2 seems to be a little more freely flowing and dynamic. Have sunk a LOT more hours on Sup Com: FA, to be sure.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 11 2014,14:37
I did pretty well at the tutorial. Might quit while ahead.
Posted by Stranger on Jan. 11 2014,18:44
aww shucks.. ya'll are too nice.But really I learned a lot from a night me and Cake duo'd. I got some good inside tips. And even tho I couldn't make out much of what Troy was saying his mass armies inspired me to duplicate that as good as I can.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 12 2014,09:58
I went googling for a complete breakdown of the differences between 1 and 2.This guy is pretty harsh on 2... a lot of the things he criticizes about 2 would have someone else saying, "You say that like it is a bad thing."
QUOTE
Where to start? I agree, Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance was way better than Supreme Commander 2. Me and my buddies still have 8 player LAN parties all the time playing that game, none of us play Supreme Commander 2 anymore. The biggest difference between Supreme Commander 1 and 2 is the economy and the scale.
In Supreme Commander everything was expressed in rates of how fast energy and mass were coming in, and when you built things it built at a rate instead of paying the bulk of the resources up front. Unfortunately this would stall a lot of players because they would start building tons of things and their rate of resources needed would far exceed the amount of resources that were coming in and nothing would get built and they wouldn't know how to recover. Maps were huge and you could have up to 1000 units. There was no tech tree like the one in Supreme Commander 2, you didn't upgrade your units on the fly, you had to build more advanced factories to build more complex units. Units often had firing ranges beyond their line of sight which meant using radar was critical. Scout units and intelligence were also crucial. Above all Supreme Commander 1 was a game about economics. Players had to intellegently use their resources to claim more resources until they could overcome their enemy, or if you had a weaker economy, identify a critical weakness through intelligence and use certain units to exploit that weakness and destroy the enemy's commander.
Maps were huge, I mean HUGE. 81x81km, playing Supreme Commander 2 feels like playing in a kids sandbox compared to the vast world of Supreme Commander 1. In Supreme Commander 2 they dumbed down everything. You have to buy everything with the resources up front, if you find a weakness in your strategy you can quickly use the tech tree to adapt, you can adapt any unit to any role with enough points on the tech tree. You can't buy anything on credit meaning you have to micromanage even more. Maps were scaled down to tiny sizes, the unit count is lower. Games play out fast favoring tactics over strategy. The game pace is fast often finishing in under half an hour when in Supreme Commander 1 games could for several hours.
Supreme Commander 2 is an odd game. People who loved Supreme Commander 1 hate Supreme Commander 2. Those who hated Supreme Commander 1 probably didn't try Supreme Commander 2. Supreme Commander 2, to fans of Forged Alliance, is a stupid, dumbed down real-time tactics game. Matches play out as matches of cheap tactics to accumulate research points, your commander acts like a character from DOTA and if you can get more research points and get to your build the fastest you can annihilate your enemy within minutes.
Supreme Commander was a game of gathering intelligence, economic control, flexing muscle, speculation, ruse, careful planning, guerilla tactics, fierce resource management, heavy analysis of unit strengths and weaknesses. Supreme Commander 2 destroyed everything that was good about Supreme Commander 1 and changed the game completely.
Worst $50 I've ever spent. The fact me and my friends still play FA to this day speaks volumes. Sometimes we just sit down and watch replays of games past, even though they can be hours long because they are that entertaining. No other game has had me sweat bullets quite like a lan match of FA. Building plans to defend your commander and infilitrate the weaknesses of your enemy, it was real time STRATEGY at its finest at a huge scale. Sorry, I'm ranting. Supreme Commander 2 is not a terrible game, it's a decent real time strategy game by every other standard, but it doesn't hold a candle to FA.
I pretty much agree... as I have already said, 2 feels like a simplified version of 1. I thought that was nicer than saying "dumbed down," even though that is what I meant.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 12 2014,10:15
In the end I like both. I'd probably have just as much fun multi-ing Starcraft 2 with you guys too.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 12 2014,11:26
Someone make the call so I can install SC if necessary.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 12 2014,12:47
JFC People, I DID THE TUTORIAL
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 12 2014,14:09
Was just saying that SupCom is more complex. I can see how 2 might be preferable for a lot of you simpletons.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 12 2014,14:55
Well, we don't want to play any games where you don't already know the tricks and shortcuts.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 12 2014,16:16
Yeah, that's how I am.And googling the game today I definitely did not learn any tricks or shortcuts, so don't worry about that.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 12 2014,16:17
I prefer the shorter SC2 games. Games that last hours can be fun, unless you are the one taken out first. Then you either wait for hours, or you go play something else. Or, you start a game with the second person that gets killed. And then your game runs longer than the first game being played by others. So now they can wait for you, or they start their own game, etc.Both game, hell, ALL RTS games are about economy. Whoever can crank out the units/tech the fastest wins.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 12 2014,16:58
QUOTE
I prefer the shorter SC2 games. Games that last hours can be fun, unless you are the one taken out first. Then you either wait for hours, or you go play something else. Or, you start a game with the second person that gets killed. And then your game runs longer than the first game being played by others. So now they can wait for you, or they start their own game, etc.
I agree, but don't.
The short games are nice, yes. However, everything seems so ridiculously rushed in SC2. You were talking strategy the other night, and discussing "end game". I was thinking, "This whole game is the end game." You could almost call SC2 "Frantic Micro Managing Was Simulator." I think it's a big too fast.
That being said, I agree about the long games. They can get out of control where they take a whole night, but you know what? Every now and then, that wouldn't be bad.
I think what we need to do is figure which game we like better, then tinker with the rules customization to fit what we want. I'd enjoy a game where I don't feel like I have to simply rush early units because if you don't you're fucked because all our games are becoming boring early rush fests.
I'd like strategy to matter at some point or the chance to try a new strategy. The problem is adding rush timers just means that instead of getting wiped out in 5 minutes, a rush of experimentals will hit you in 15.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 12 2014,17:16
I am trying different strategies to survive the other guy's early rush without resorting to an early rush myself, but no luck yet. Have only done about 10% of the experimenting I need, though.And, all the strategy guides I have found so far are all emphasizing different ways to do an early rush. Haven't found a "how to turtle" yet.
Almost seems like the winner of these games is evident in the first 10 minutes, a large percentage of the time.
Posted by Leisher on Jan. 12 2014,17:38
Exactly. It's like the only strategy that works is Patton's.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 12 2014,17:46
Dunno, I haven't played a RTS game in the last 10 years where early harassment wasn't a must-do. It's a pretty big failure on my part if I don't scout you for 15 minutes and then am surprised when I get a nuke to the face for my slothful ways. Some of you guys like to rush nukes, or air force, or whatever. Unfortunately, the counter for that is to harass you early and not let you get off the ground. A more balanced approach from the beginning might be in order.
Edit: Also in the 3v2 situations, we were rushing early for good reason, trying to cut one head off before the hydra became too unwieldy, if you will.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 12 2014,17:50
(Troy @ Jan. 12 2014,20:46)
QUOTE
Edit: Also in the 3v2 situations, we were rushing early for good reason, trying to cut one head off before the hydra became too unwieldy, if you will.
That's a winning strategy for any situation, though. Because we didn't build early for a rush, we got rushed.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 12 2014,18:12
Probably going to get off early tonight. Could be up for gaming.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 12 2014,19:49
Just won against 2 allied "Normal" AI."Hard" AI just cheated. Early air rushes which I was just barely able to defend against, then at exactly minute 15 I started getting hit by both his long range artillery, but also incoming nukes. Hadn't even begun the shield or nuke defense research yet, much less had anti-nukes built. Cheating bitch.
The 2 normal AI I was able to keep in check for a long while, then when their nuke volleys started I was ready for them, but eventually they were literally firing 5 nukes at once about every 30 seconds, and I couldn't keep up with nuke defense. They nuked me back to a hidden corner where I changed to massive land unit production, and was able to win the game with the giant mech units that aren't Krogoths.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 12 2014,22:49
When playing against the computer (I've held a normal AI off for 30+ minutes, but lost), I have learned that it's not the early rush that wins, it's the inability to defend against it.In a 1v1, Troy rushes me, and I hold him off. I collect all the metal he's bringing me just outside my maid base. That gives me a production boost (because we all knows it's about the metal) that allows me to continue holding him off. Meanwhile, we are both upgrading our tech. He hits experimentals early, but they are weak. Probably the weakest experimentals in the game. I can kill them with hordes of level one units, not to mention the upgraded units I can bring out. Then my long range artillery starts, AND my experimentals, which are stronger, start.
So, in a 1v1 with Troy, he HAS to rush me early. My late game is stronger. But it's also not impossible to hold him off. So the victor isn't decided 10 minutes in when two players are equal. If I guess wrong and build a bunch of subs to defend against his nonexistent navy, I'm fucked. But if I'm just as good at resource management as he is, I can hold off his early rush.
Like he said, they would double rush me, which would end it for us because Gordon and Leisher < Troy and Stranger. But, in game two, I had enough early defenses built up to hold off their first attack, allowing you and Gordon to swing around the other path and take Stranger out. Then their game was over. So, it wasn't so much the early rush that lost either game for anyone, it was the better strategy. We guessed wrong the first game, they guessed wrong the second. Then we guessed wrong the third game.
The 3rd party argument for SC1 was the epic scale and huge maps. We have been avoiding those in SC2. Perhaps we should be trying some. The other thing we can try is a build up time. No attacking/scouting until 15 minutes. However, in my opinion, this gives late game teams (the blue faction) a huge advantage. If left alone to tech up, their tech is better.
Anyway, point is. . . I think either version of the game is susceptible to the early rush defeat. You HAVE to prepare for it. A huge map will help slow the game way down too. It will take a while for someone to build up a force, and get it to you. An early rush squad on a large map is defeated before they get half way to their target because the enemy has had so much more time to prepare for it. A small map, the early rush is far more effective.
Lastly, I've been tweaking the AI. I start with a 'Hard' AI and dumb him down. I've been able to beat a 40/40/5 AI attacking strongest. I keep increasing his 'bonuses' to see how far I can go.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 12 2014,23:20
45/45/7And make sure you change maps so you don't just learn the map and the AI strategy on it.
Posted by Troy on Jan. 13 2014,06:28
Dunno if anyone else noticed, but killing things and tech are related. If I rush you and you wipe a bunch of my units I just gifted you a few levels of tech, sometimes substantially. On that water map I went up +6-7 points of tech when you guys charged into my defensive line.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 13 2014,06:32
Explain?
Posted by Troy on Jan. 13 2014,07:45
You get research points for killing things.