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Forum: Internet Links Topic: Zuckerburg ends Islamic terrorism started by: Leisher Posted by Leisher on Mar. 30 2016,06:43
< "Love will defeat terrorism." >That's one of those statements that would leave you blankly staring at a person wondering how they survived this long. History has already shown us how to beat Islamic terrorism. Simply introduce them to our culture. Soon they'll be buying used panties from vending machines, making blurred out porn, and hunting whales to extinction. Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 30 2016,07:06
He's right in that responding to terror attacks with fear is a mistake.The second part is hippie crap, though. You are absolutely right, Leisher. The real ultimate forces that will stem the tide of terrorism are not policing or firepower, they are Levi's and KFC. Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 31 2016,07:23
(TPRJones @ Mar. 30 2016,07:06) QUOTE The real ultimate power that will stem the tide of terrorism is not flipping out or killing people, it is Levi's and KFC. Couldn't have said it better myself. Posted by GORDON on Mar. 31 2016,07:59
In other words, the only way to make some people not murder and rape is fast food.These sound like good people. Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 31 2016,08:03
It's not a sure thing, though. The corollary to that fact is that the only way we can lose is if we strip away enough of our social and economic freedoms to erode the infectious power of our culture. For every law like the Patriot Act we marginally decrease the odds of having Starbucks and TGI Fridays opening branches in Tehran and winning the war on terror.QUOTE In other words, the only way to make some people not murder and rape is fast food. Also blue jeans, smartphones, and pop music. When it comes to killing people for not believing the same thing as them, the only real difference between Christians and Muslims is that the Christians were tempered by the tide of freedom that washed over Europe and the U.S. during industrialization, which has started to turn into a movement towards general tolerance of others. Muslims are still where the Christians were back in the 1700s, just with access to modern explosives. They'll eventually succumb to the same moderating forces if we don't fuck it up ourselves in response. Posted by GORDON on Mar. 31 2016,09:33
(TPRJones @ Mar. 31 2016,11:03) QUOTE When it comes to killing people for not believing the same thing as them, the only real difference between Christians and Muslims is that the Christians were tempered by the tide of freedom that washed over Europe and the U.S. during industrialization, which has started to turn into a movement towards general tolerance of others. Muslims are still where the Christians were back in the 1700s, just with access to modern explosives. They'll eventually succumb to the same moderating forces if we don't fuck it up ourselves in response. And if the stone-age native Americans had been left alone in the 1500's, they may have developed their own vaccinations for diseases that would have kept them from getting wiped out by smallpox when they encountered 17th century technology. The problem is, we can't wait hundreds of years for the savages to catch up. Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 31 2016,10:05
QUOTE And if the stone-age native Americans had been left alone in the 1500's, they may have developed their own vaccinations for diseases that would have kept them from getting wiped out by smallpox when they encountered 17th century technology. Actually, no. The new world never developed the same high levels of disease as Europe for several reasons. Not having big cities due to differing tech levels is indeed one. But just as vital is the lack of good domesticable herbivores in the new world. The llama is just about the only one and they don't typically live in nearly as close proximity to humans as was being done in European agriculture. And there's where all those diseases came from; every disease the Europeans carried to the new world is something we got from pigs, cows, sheep, etc. More on point, though, is I'm not suggesting that we wait for Muslims. And I'm not suggesting that it's okay that they are three centuries behind. I'm just saying that the only way to fix the problems will be to either turn every third-world Muslim country entirely into slagged glass or to wait until their children decide to put down arms in exchange for big macs and lattes. Nothing else is going to work; all middle roads just drag things out longer until one of those eventual endings is reached. EDIT: Well, except, of course, for the third ending where the terrorists win because we give up all our freedoms to big brother and our culture loses all value as a weapon because our crap has become unpleasant enough that no one wants it anymore. That is also a possible ending ... except that it's more of a middling until the next round of revolutions and new freedoms a few generations down the road. But I'm rambling. Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 31 2016,10:32
(TPRJones @ Mar. 31 2016,10:05) QUOTE Actually, no. The new world never developed the same high levels of disease as Europe for several reasons. Not having big cities due to differing tech levels is indeed one. But just as vital is the lack of good domesticable herbivores in the new world. The llama is just about the only one and they don't typically live in nearly as close proximity to humans as was being done in European agriculture. And there's where all those diseases came from; every disease the Europeans carried to the new world is something we got from pigs, cows, sheep, etc. Smallpox is transmitted by human contact only, and didn't wipe out the Native Americans because it had been in the Americas since 1515 and the fatality rate among the unvaccinated is between 30-50%. Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 31 2016,11:22
Huh. < Declared eradicated in 1980, smallpox was an acute, self-limited human illness with no known non-human reservoir. > Interesting. With such a high burn rate and no reservoir how in the world did it stay around for thousands of years?
Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 31 2016,11:43
(TPRJones @ Mar. 31 2016,13:22) QUOTE Huh. < Declared eradicated in 1980, smallpox was an acute, self-limited human illness with no known non-human reservoir. > Interesting. With such a high burn rate and no reservoir how in the world did it stay around for thousands of years? It's been around since BC times. Best guess: recent mutation... QUOTE Four orthopoxviruses cause infection in humans: variola, vaccinia, cowpox, and monkeypox. Variola virus infects only humans in nature, although primates and other animals have been infected in a laboratory setting. Vaccinia, cowpox, and monkeypox viruses can infect both humans and other animals in nature. ... although that's not quite certain. But that has a snag: QUOTE A second estimate has placed the separation of variola from Taterapox at 3000–4000 years ago. This is consistent with archaeological and historical evidence regarding the appearance of smallpox as a human disease which suggests a relatively recent origin. However, if the mutation rate is assumed to be similar to that of the herpesviruses, the divergence date between variola from Taterapox has been estimated to be 50,000 years ago. While this is consistent with the other published estimates, it suggests that the archaeological and historical evidence is very incomplete. Better estimates of mutation rates in these viruses are needed. QUOTE There are no credible descriptions of smallpox-like disease in the Americas before the westward exploration by Europeans in the 15th century AD. ... During the Middle Ages, smallpox made periodic incursions into Europe but did not become established there until the population increased and population movement became more active during the era of the Crusades. By the 16th century smallpox had become well established across most of Europe. I think that's why. Your population density has to reach a certain critical mass before you can drop the virus in the environment and have it spread viciously. Then there's the protection the less horrible version grants us: QUOTE In the United States and South Africa a much milder form of smallpox, variola minor, was recognized just before the close of the 19th century. Contracting v. minor is like an inoculation against the more evil v. major strain. Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 31 2016,20:51
(TPRJones @ Mar. 31 2016,11:22) QUOTE Huh. < Declared eradicated in 1980, smallpox was an acute, self-limited human illness with no known non-human reservoir. > Interesting. With such a high burn rate and no reservoir how in the world did it stay around for thousands of years? I think immunity to poxviruses fades over time, so it's possible to become reinfected and contagious for brief periods -- just not usually fatal. Posted by GORDON on Apr. 01 2016,05:09
Every book I've read on the subject (a grand total of two) said 90% of the native American population was wiped out when the Europeans unknowingly brought over smallpox. Y'all might get famous if you can prove them all wrong.Not knowing the nature of infectious diseases, some natives even thought the Europeans might have invisible disease canons that could fire over the horizon since it was spreading from village to village even though no dirty white man had visited there.... just the natives who met the Europeans and were spreading the word of their arrival. Also spreading their smallpox. Posted by Alhazad on Apr. 01 2016,05:31
(GORDON @ Apr. 01 2016,05:09) QUOTE Every book I've read on the subject (a grand total of two) said 90% of the native American population was wiped out when the Europeans unknowingly brought over smallpox. Y'all might get famous if you can prove them all wrong. Sorry for the confusion. My point was that it wasn't just smallpox -- they were killed by a whole buffet of diseases we brought them, including influenza and the motherfucking Black Death. Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 01 2016,06:59
And those other ones do fall under what I was talking about above; the fact that the Europeans had all those diseases to bring with them was not just because cities but just as much because livestock.Smallpox, however, not so much. Apparently. Posted by GORDON on Apr. 01 2016,07:47
I may be misremembering, transposing "smallpox" when the reference literature said "diseases" in general. It's been a while.At any rate, the civilized world can't wait for the muslim world to catch up when, as someone else said, unlike in the past, today's barbarians have access to bigger bombs. The world's armies need to surround the area, hermetically seal it, evacuate every child, and glass it. Nobody gets the "holy" land. No more pilgrimages to Mecca. It's a diseased swamp, nothing good comes from it, and the world would be better off without it. I'd be willing to pay $5/gallon of gas for that. Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 01 2016,07:52
If you do that you'll just get a generation of orphans that end up being resentful and angry, and probably already brainwashed to be religious anyway because they start really young with that stuff. Wouldn't work.
Posted by GORDON on Apr. 01 2016,08:58
(TPRJones @ Apr. 01 2016,10:52) QUOTE If you do that you'll just get a generation of orphans that end up being resentful and angry, and probably already brainwashed to be religious anyway because they start really young with that stuff. Wouldn't work. Yeah but they'd be raised by people in the first world with access to KFC and blue jeans so they will be fine. Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 01 2016,09:06
Depends on your cutoff age. I'd say it would have to be two or less for that to work. Any more than that and they've started to form attachments.
Posted by GORDON on Apr. 01 2016,12:04
So... everything from before about KFC and stuff was bullshit? Once you're programmed, there's no help for you?
Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 01 2016,12:10
(GORDON @ Apr. 01 2016,14:04) QUOTE So... everything from before about KFC and stuff was bullshit? Once you're programmed, there's no help for you? Nah. It's just not a smart bet to take at that point. Posted by GORDON on Apr. 01 2016,12:15
I know.I'm still willing to try my way. Erase them from history. Assimilate the innocent. Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 01 2016,12:22
< Damnatio memoriae > doesn't work.
Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 01 2016,12:38
(GORDON @ Apr. 01 2016,14:04) QUOTE So... everything from before about KFC and stuff was bullshit? Once you're programmed, there's no help for you? Not at all. You just need to have parents to rebel against and growing access to western culture. But put those same kids in foster homes because you killed their parents, and now they'll have to rebel against their new home instead by turning back to the old ways. Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 01 2016,12:40
(GORDON @ Apr. 01 2016,14:15) QUOTE I'm still willing to try my way. Erase them from history. Assimilate the innocent. But I thought the new definition of "Muslim" didn't allow for any innocence? Why the sudden weakness? Posted by GORDON on Apr. 01 2016,14:13
Because children are innocent.
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