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Forum: Internet Links Topic: Schools teaching "gender fluidity." started by: GORDON Posted by GORDON on May 16 2015,18:59
< http://www.foxnews.com/opinion....ls.html >QUOTE One of the nation’s largest public school systems is preparing to include gender identity to its classroom curriculum, including lessons on sexual fluidity and spectrum – the idea that there’s no such thing as 100 percent boys or 100 percent girls. Well if they say so. Posted by Vince on May 17 2015,04:39
This will be the up side to moving to a place between two towns where one has a population of about 350 and the other 1400. I don't think gay weddings and gender choice restrooms are going to be an issue.
Posted by Malcolm on May 17 2015,10:55
QUOTE “It’s only going to create more confusion in the minds of young people who don’t need any further confusion about sexual identity,” he said. < Goddamn, I hate that word >. QUOTE ...the idea that there’s no such thing as 100 percent boys or 100 percent girls. With the glaring exception of physical biology in the vast majority of cases, that's not entirely insane. This is. QUOTE I must confess that I’m a bit old school on sex education. I believe that God created male and female. My reading of the Bible does not indicate there were dozens of other options. As is this. QUOTE “The larger picture is this is really an attack on nature itself – the created order,” said Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council. An attack on nature itself? Oh, motherfucking please. If there's anything that's an attack on nature, it's monogamy. QUOTE “At the end of this is the deconstruction of gender - absolutely,” she told me. “The majority of people pushing (this) are not saying that – but that clearly is the motivation.” Holy shit. Run for the fucking hills. That fails to register any sort of alarm in me. Dripping faucets warrant more attention. QUOTE And the Family Research Council’s Sprigg said there’s a pretty good reason why they can’t produce a textbook about fluidity. “It’s an ideological concept,” he told me. “It’s not a scientific one.” You can produce plenty of text books on ideological concepts. You can also drag your kids out if you want. QUOTE However, Torre told me that parents will indeed be able to opt out of those classes “including the sexual orientation and gender identity lessons.” That'd be School Board spokesman John Torre. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,07:15
Oh no! Children who feel like they aren't exactly like everyone else might not be properly shamed into repressing their personal identity and hiding their true selves from everyone around them like they live in the fucking body snatchers movie! That would be awful!Where will we get our highly-effeminate-and-clearly-in-denial Republican congressman if they aren't taught to hate their freaky little selves like God intended? Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,09:55
Pffft... can we have a program including D&D player curriculum also? How about the Jewish curriculum for all those poor Jewish kids that feel "apart". People with facial birthmarks? Biracial kids ALWAYS feel like they don't belong during parent teacher night with their two parents of different colors. I know there's already a class for the band members, but that really doesn't help the NON band member students learn to accept their band member fellow students for the nerdy band members they are!
Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,10:03
I get your point, but it's not at all parallel. We are already teaching these kids in great detail every year that there are exactly and only two ways to be and everyone else should just stuff down any doubts about themselves and shut up and go to the right bathroom / locker room / gym class / whatever because the sexual binary is the end-all and be-all of gender expression.If we weren't already covering that curriculum in excruciating detail for their entire education, then what you said would be relevant. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,10:27
Sorry, I just think the gender identity question is bogus. Not that people or kids with the disorder should be taunted or picked on any more than any other kid that's different is taunted or picked on. But this seems to be the only place in nature or anywhere else that we approach the situation like this. Until they can explain it in some way that makes sense, I have a hard time believing that the 99.99999998 % of the human body in question is what is wrong in being a male body rather than the 0.00000002 percent that happens to reside in the brain that thinks it should be a female body.And thinking that everyone else (the overwhelming majority) must suck it up if they are uncomfortable when someone with the other gender is in the stall next to them is really jacked up thinking. If I have a router that somehow ended up with the firmware from a microwave oven, I don't turn the router into a microwave over. I work on reflashing the firmware so it knows it's actually a router. Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,10:37
QUOTE If I have a router that somehow ended up with the firmware from a microwave oven, I don't turn the router into a microwave over. I work on reflashing the firmware so it knows it's actually a router. The human mind doesn't work like a circuit. Thank jeebus. QUOTE But this seems to be the only place in nature or anywhere else that we approach the situation like this. Until they can explain it in some way that makes sense, I have a hard time believing that the 99.99999998 % of the human body in question is what is wrong in being a male body rather than the 0.00000002 percent that happens to reside in the brain that thinks it should be a female body. I'll repeat this: what fuck bits biology assigns you at birth can be completely distinct from how your brain gets wired. The brain has an < unbelievably large effect > < on the body >. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,10:41
See, you use that word "disorder" like it applies here. There's a fundamental problem where this is a topic of discussion that you and I will never come even close to agreeing on.QUOTE Until they can explain it in some way that makes sense... I believe this is perhaps an issue that you will never be able to understand where they are coming from. Much like how my grandfather could never understand why people insisted that the races should be treated equally even if they are sometimes different in the particulars. I'm not calling you racist, I'm saying your fundamental world view is no longer compatible with what appears to be a future trend and you are as unwilling to move forward as he was when the same thing happened to him. People are neither routers or microwave ovens. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,10:47
Okay, let's try a political approach instead. Do you believe it is the place of the government to tell people how they should live their lives? Or do you believe that each individual has the right to pursue their happiness (as long as it doesn't conflict with the rights of another, yadda yadda)?If your answer is the former then we will never agree on anything. But I believe your answer is the latter. If that is so, who are you to interfere with someone pursuing their happiness just because you don't personally understand? They don't need your permission to be who or what they want to be. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,11:14
I do not believe it's the place of the government to tell people how they should live their lives. I also don't think it's the place of the government to tell people how they should feel about sharing their public bathroom with someone who is physically of the opposite sex.People that are anorexic and see their bodies as too fat when their ribs, hips and cheekbones are about to poke through the skin, people that hit the gym nonstop and look perfectly fit but are juicing because they don't think they look fit enough, people that have all sorts of body image issues are not enabled by society (not the government here, but society). However on this one body image issue, if we aren't supportive of what appears to be some sort of mental delusional issue then society is wrong? I really have no problem with guys wear dresses and G-strings if that's their thing. I resent being told that not enabling them in their delusions is somehow immoral. The saddest part here is if science came out today and said they have a treatment that would properly align that part of the brain in these people and they would accept the gender they were born into, the political climate today would crucify those scientists. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,11:26
That doesn't sound like a cure, it sounds like brainwashing. You would have a hard time convincing me otherwise, I would need to see clear evidence that identifies the specific cause and why that mental quirk is a "disorder" where all the others that make up our personality and define who we are are not disorders.
Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,11:27
QUOTE However on this one body image issue, if we aren't supportive of what appears to be some sort of mental delusional issue then society is wrong? Gender is not solely related to your body. I don't know how many more ways I can say that. QUOTE The saddest part here is if science came out today and said they have a treatment that would properly align that part of the brain in these people and they would accept the gender they were born into, the political climate today would crucify those scientists. 1) You're assuming that's even possible. 2) You're assuming they're "misaligned" somehow. Let's play this another way. There's nothing in nature that says there's a higher power, but 99% of the world believes in one. Why isn't that some form of mental illness? Hell, we've got an < entire field of study devoted to that >. Numbers don't mean shit in this case. A gender comprised entirely of one or two people is no less valid than a gender composed of one or two billion. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,11:30
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,12:41) QUOTE See, you use that word "disorder" like it applies here. There's a fundamental problem where this is a topic of discussion that you and I will never come even close to agreeing on. QUOTE Until they can explain it in some way that makes sense... I believe this is perhaps an issue that you will never be able to understand where they are coming from. Much like how my grandfather could never understand why people insisted that the races should be treated equally even if they are sometimes different in the particulars. I'm not calling you racist, I'm saying your fundamental world view is no longer compatible with what appears to be a future trend and you are as unwilling to move forward as he was when the same thing happened to him. People are neither routers or microwave ovens. I don't think you're calling me a racist, but unless your grandfather thought being black was possibly a mental disorder that could be fixed, it's really not the same. Minority babies and the mentally retarded with intact reproductive systems were no longer compatible with the future trend in the 20's and 30's until as a society we realized the means to the end were really, really monstrous. Not saying your a eugenicist (or monstrous), but sometimes we don't realize the damage we might be doing until we later realize we may have misunderstood the problem. Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,11:32
QUOTE Not saying your a eugenicist (or monstrous), but sometimes we don't realize the damage we might be doing until we later realize we may have misunderstood the problem. But the potential damage from telling people they must fit in exactly one of two specific, unchanging boxes, that's acceptable risk? QUOTE I don't think you're calling me a racist, but unless your grandfather thought being black was possibly a mental disorder that could be fixed, it's really not the same. You have to be shitting me. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,11:38
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,13:26) QUOTE That doesn't sound like a cure, it sounds like brainwashing. You would have a hard time convincing me otherwise, I would need to see clear evidence that identifies the specific cause and why that mental quirk is a "disorder" where all the others that make up our personality and define who we are are not disorders. Fair enough. I will need to see clear evidence that this is something other than a form of xenomelia before I will likely believe it to be something else. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,11:39
(Vince @ May 18 2015,13:30) QUOTE ...sometimes we don't realize the damage we might be doing until we later realize we may have misunderstood the problem. Yes! Exactly. And in the last decade society has realized that treating people that don't fit the sexual or gender binary as monsters or deficient is wrong. It has led to countless lives of misery and fear for those that didn't fit the exact standards of society on these points. Society finally realized how much damage it was causing and has turned towards acceptance of those born differently instead of shaming them and treating them as pariahs. So you do understand after all. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,11:41
QUOTE I will need to see clear evidence that this is something other than a form of xenomelia before I will likely believe it to be something else. Fine. But without such evidence and until that question is settled wouldn't it be better to err on the side of allowing them the freedom to not be despised and mistreated by the people that think like you do but aren't so polite about it? EDIT: And I've included sexual orientation in the last couple of posts just because it's generally related and also more common. But transgender kids have it much worse on average. Just a few years ago a transgender teen is over 12 times more likely to end up homeless and living on the streets sucking cock for sandwiches because their parents didn't understand than someone who is merely gay. They were 16 times more likely to commit suicide to escape the mistreatment they get from the part of society that thinks it's a "disorder". So even if it is a disorder - a point I do not surrender - clearly the way the disorder was treated in the past was NOT a treatment. Things are getting better. Now transgender kids are only 10 times more likely to suicide and 8 times more likely to be kicked out by their family and become homeless. Yay for acceptance! Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,12:00
(Vince @ May 18 2015,13:38) QUOTE (TPRJones @ May 18 2015,13:26) QUOTE That doesn't sound like a cure, it sounds like brainwashing. You would have a hard time convincing me otherwise, I would need to see clear evidence that identifies the specific cause and why that mental quirk is a "disorder" where all the others that make up our personality and define who we are are not disorders. Fair enough. I will need to see clear evidence that this is something other than a form of xenomelia before I will likely believe it to be something else. Again, you're shitting me. Transgenderism != hacking off a limb. Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,12:12
Thrugh my childhood, 20's, and most of my 30's, I was just going along happily coexisting with gays and trannies and whatever else was out there. never had a raised hand or a harsh word for them.But the last few years I am being treated like a "cis scum" enemy because.... I'm not even sure why. Is there a pill I can take to not be cis scum? Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,12:15
QUOTE But the last few years I am being treated like a "cis scum" enemy because.... I'm not even sure why. This has affected your every day life in what way? Are the trans folk standing outside your door and picketing? Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,12:18
(Malcolm @ May 18 2015,15:15) QUOTE QUOTE But the last few years I am being treated like a "cis scum" enemy because.... I'm not even sure why. This has affected your every day life in what way? Are the trans folk standing outside your door and picketing? No, but I am having a lot of anger directed toward me on the internet. I don't own a business and I didn't say anything on local TV so no one is picketing me yet. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,12:29
QUOTE No, but I am having a lot of anger directed toward me on the internet. Your experience online is not unique. It's not even uncommon. For every trait about you (or anyone else), out there online is a group of people dedicated to hating you for that trait. Welcome to the internet, the place where regardless of who you are there is some place out there where you can be thoroughly hated. Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,12:35
I acknowledge that. I also acknowledge that I don't like that aspect of humanity. If I say that people should be nice to the gender fluid I am a good guy, but if I say that everyone should be nice to everyone, including cis scum, then I am problematic and such hate speech shouldn't be tolerated.
Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,12:45
And I'd wager I can find people making the exact opposite statement as well.If you point is that some people are shitty then I whole-heartedly agree. If your point is that white males are now being treated worse then others online I disagree. Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,12:55
Every day on the internet I see another reason why internet anonymity should be stripped away. Back to the original post, I wonder what the school board means by "no such thing as 100% girl or 100% boy." I would seriously like to see their arguments and metrics for basing an entirely new class based on that statement. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,13:02
First you'd have to define the words "girl" and "boy" in a way that you can get the majority of people to agree with. If you stick with just penis or no penis the percentage of people who don't fit into those right is fairly small, but our society clearly has a LOT more assumptions about gender than penis or no penis. For example if you add in boy = beard and girl = tits it gets messier. But if you start to get into pink = girls or science = boys or whatever then it gets a hell of a lot messier.
Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,13:04
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,16:02) QUOTE First you'd have to define the words "girl" and "boy" in a way that you can get the majority of people to agree with. If you stick with just penis or no penis there percentage of people who don't fit right is small. But if you start to get into pink = girls or science = boys or whatever then it gets a hell of a lot messier. Exactly right. That's why I'd like to see their "mission statement" or whatever it is on which schools base specific courses of study. They pretty much have to know what they are teaching ahead of time before they start teaching it, don't they? "No such thing as 100% girls or 100% boys" is a bold statement, and I want to see what they are basing it on. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,13:11
QUOTE They pretty much have to know what they are teaching ahead of time before they start teaching it, don't they? I can tell you from working in the educational industry that, no, most of the time there's no specific agreement already in place on the details like that. Sometimes some people involved have their own ideas on those details but haven't really hashed it out with the other people involved yet. Most of the people involved most of the time, though, are just pulling it out of their ass as they go. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,13:22
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,13:41) QUOTE EDIT: And I've included sexual orientation in the last couple of posts just because it's generally related and also more common. But transgender kids have it much worse on average. Just a few years ago a transgender teen is over 12 times more likely to end up homeless and living on the streets sucking cock for sandwiches because their parents didn't understand than someone who is merely gay. They were 16 times more likely to commit suicide to escape the mistreatment they get from the part of society that thinks it's a "disorder". So even if it is a disorder - a point I do not surrender - clearly the way the disorder was treated in the past was NOT a treatment. Things are getting better. Now transgender kids are only 10 times more likely to suicide and 8 times more likely to be kicked out by their family and become homeless. Yay for acceptance! I wondered why you were lumping them together. Studies show that suicide rates are the same for both pre and post op transsexuals. So obviously having the body they relate to (or rather, thought they related to before they transitioned) isn't helping them. But I was specific to gender identity because I don't know how it's moral to tell half a class that they're going to have to suck it up and be uncomfortable with an opposite sex person in their bathroom as opposed to telling the ONE person to suck it up because they can't make half the class uncomfortable to accommodate them. Or you could fix the issue entirely by letting the gender confused kids use the faculty bathroom. Let these whacko loons accommodate them and see how long this continues to be an issue. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,13:39
(Vince @ May 18 2015,15:22) QUOTE Studies show that suicide rates are the same for both pre and post op transsexuals. So obviously having the body they relate to (or rather, thought they related to before they transitioned) isn't helping them. If that higher suicide rate is due to how society treats them then this is not surprising. Only those that can completely "pass" with no suspicion based on their hands being too big or having an adam apple or a deep voice can get accepted. Those that aren't perfect still the same negative treatment by society as before, even post-op. QUOTE Or you could fix the issue entirely by letting the gender confused kids use the faculty bathroom. I don't think telling them they're so unwanted that they can't even use the facilities with the other kids isn't going to make them better. Just worse. If bathrooms are your concern, then build all the bathrooms to be used by one person at a time and make them genderless. That's the only solution that will let people be what they are without forcing some other kid to see something they don't want to. Shit, I didn't want to see all that cock in the locker room in high school, but no one asked me. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,14:10
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,15:39) QUOTE Shit, I didn't want to see all that cock in the locker room in high school, but no one asked me. EXACTLY! It's called life. I'm not talking about the bullying and physical abuse here. Just the crap you have to do that you may not be 100% comfortable with. And for the record, that's why I was A-OK with being a band geek. No swinging cocks involved in that class. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,14:13
So it shouldn't matter what locker room or bathroom they use, then. Might as well let them use the one they want.
Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,14:19
Personally, I see myself as 100% boy. I have a wiener, and I want to put it into a lot of the cooters I see. I want nothing to do with other wieners, ever. I sort of feel like I am missing out on not wanting to play with other wieners, because as Oberyn Martell put it, I am missing out on half the pleasure of the world. But I am who I am, and they don't have a pill to change it, yet.Am I abnormal, because those people say no one is 100% boy? Should I feel bad about it? Will I be hazed because I don't want to play with other wieners? Obviously the previous paragraph is sarcastic, as it applies to a grown-ass man, but my son is growing up in this new world, and while I am sorry the pendulum has been on one side of its arc for a long time now, and no one should get shit for their sexual preferences or identities, I don't want him getting abused when the pendulum swings hard the other way. If he is told he is abnormal because he only likes girls, I am going to have a problem with that. Which is why I want to know what their metrics are when they make such a statement. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,14:31
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,16:13) QUOTE So it shouldn't matter what locker room or bathroom they use, then. Might as well let them use the one they want. So for the sake of the one in 1000 (if the gender confused is that high a number) half the rest should suck it up so that one's feelings aren't hurt? Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,14:44
No, as long as everyone is already sucking it up anyway lets let the kids most in danger of suicide have a break.
Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,14:58
If we apply that rule of thumb to every reason people give for committing suicide we're going to be living in an even more confused and fucked up world.If a person commits suicide, you're dealing with a mental illness. Depression along with whatever else is going on there. A mentally healthy person doesn't intentionally kill themselves no matter how bad their lives are (see Joseph Merrick). Catering to the mentally ill is not going to make for a better world. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,15:22
Fair enough.Just don't mistake transgender suicide as some sort of proof that being transgender is a mental problem. It's much more likely that the suicide is directly related to the societal reaction to being transgender coupled with the young ages of those that are most frequently persecuted for it. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,15:48
Heheh... don't worry, I think the suicide is an entirely different mental problem ;-)Seriously, I don't know what causes someone to be transgender, but it presents the same way a number of other nonreality based delusional ailments present, so that's why I look in that direction. I think it's the humane thing to do to make them as comfortable as you can while not doing so at the expense of anyone else. But at the same time let's not just say "oh, they were born with the wrong body" and be done with it. Don't let political correctness do to this what the Catholic Church did to astronomy back in the day. I just think doctors in 100 years are going to look back and say, "Did it never occur to you to look under the sheet and think maybe it's not the body but the brain?" You may be right and I may be wrong, but no one is served by ignoring the question. Well, no one that's actually suffering is served, let me put it that way. When I was getting sober, the hardest and scariest part was questioning everything I thought to be true about myself. As I tore down layer after layer I started to fear there would be nothing left by the time I was done. It's natural. Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,17:01
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,15:11) QUOTE QUOTE They pretty much have to know what they are teaching ahead of time before they start teaching it, don't they? I can tell you from working in the educational industry that, no, most of the time there's no specific agreement already in place on the details like that. Sometimes some people involved have their own ideas on those details but haven't really hashed it out with the other people involved yet. Most of the people involved most of the time, though, are just pulling it out of their ass as they go. No, most teachers only have to stay a few pages in the book ahead of the students. Even that's unusual dedication. QUOTE Personally, I see myself as 100% boy. I have a wiener, and I want to put it into a lot of the cooters I see. 100% "boy" or "girl" is a clumsy way to state things. "Male" and "female" would be better. The proper way would be "heterosexual" and "homosexual." Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,17:08
QUOTE When I was getting sober, the hardest and scariest part was questioning everything I thought to be true about myself. This isn't about cleaning a chemical out of your system or psyche. QUOTE ... but it presents the same way a number of other nonreality based delusional ailments present, so that's why I look in that direction. People who think they can communicate with higher powers (i.e. pray) exhibit symptoms of schizophrenia. QUOTE I just think doctors in 100 years are going to look back and say, "Did it never occur to you to look under the sheet and think maybe it's not the body but the brain?" So, what's the right way to be born? If someone suddenly turns gay after some massive head trauma, sure, I'd look in that direction ... though, I've never heard of anything remotely like that happening. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,17:09
QUOTE I just think doctors in 100 years are going to look back and say, "Did it never occur to you to look under the sheet and think maybe it's not the body but the brain?" While I think in 500 years people are going to look back and think our ideas of gender, gender roles, and the concept of binary sexuality are quaint and misguided. Can you can guarantee that looking into the mental aspects won't be an excuse to lock 'em up in insane asylums and throw away they key? Again? Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,17:11
QUOTE This isn't about cleaning a chemical out of your system or psyche. Actually, it kind of is. Most MTFs report a positive swing in mood once they get their testosterone factories removed. Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,17:12
QUOTE Can you can guarantee that looking into the mental aspects won't be an excuse to lock 'em up in insane asylums and throw away they key? Again? You should address that question to Malcolm, he said something earlier about how much the brain controls the body. Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,17:18
(GORDON @ May 18 2015,19:12) QUOTE QUOTE Can you can guarantee that looking into the mental aspects won't be an excuse to lock 'em up in insane asylums and throw away they key? Again? You should address that question to Malcolm, he said something earlier about how much the brain controls the body. The brain does. I have yet to see a well adjusted closeted gay person. Trying to suppress your sexuality is a complete bitch. If we had a way to do it that was less subtle than castration, don't you think we'd be breaking it out on every pedophile in the population? Come on, I want to see the bio-psych magic bullet to cure that shit. Gayness ought to be easy to detect after that. Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,17:38
You fuckers actually have me doing independant research on this shit. Fuck you all.This guy at Oxford says over and over in a paper from 2008 that confused gender identity is a "disorder." < http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/131/12/3115 > QUOTE No-one, wrote Frank Beach, a notable contributor to the experimental study of hormones and sexual behaviour, ever died from lack of sex. But the personal, social and legal aspects of sexual behaviour are a pervasive pre-occupation in all humans. The variety and vagaries of sex can have severe implications, and the existence of homosexuality and disorders of gender identity demand some sort of explanation (Bancroft, 2008). Neuroscience can ask itself, therefore, why it has contributed so little to understanding human sexuality. One reason is our overall ignorance about the brain, which hinders attempts to relate particular patterns of brain activity to an observable behaviour in a way that contributes to understanding. Another is the effect of sexual mores on the study of sexuality itself: studying sex is still considered a slightly risqué career, and made difficult by the politics, constraints and prejudices of human societies. It took the AIDS epidemic to convince many governments and funding bodies that studying sex was important and respectable. Most of our information on the neurobiology of sex comes from animal studies (Becker et al., 2005), but nearly all of what we know about variations in human sexuality, including hetero- and homo-sexuality, and disorders of gender identity (transsexualism), comes from clinical material, anecdotes or even fiction (the three overlap). That's just the first paragraph. Lots of interesting stuff follows but I don't want to quote the whole thing. Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,17:40
Someone show me what the model brain looks like. I'm 99.9% certain I'd qualify for at least one mental disorder myself. I'm at least semi-functional.
Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,17:43
(Malcolm @ May 18 2015,20:40) QUOTE I'm 99.9% certain I'd qualify for at least one mental disorder myself. I'm 99.9% certain no one here would argue with that ;-) Posted by GORDON on May 18 2015,17:50
This guy at NYU points out that the confusion is known as "Gender Identity Disorder," and there is currently no known treatment for it.< http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/opus....lopment > QUOTE A small percentage of our population feels that their “brain” is one gender while their “body” is another, a phenomenon known as Gender Identity Disorder (GID). This variation from the norm creates immense discomfort and inhibits some children from developing a strong, confident sense of self (Hepp, Kraemer, Schnyder, Miller & Delsignore, 2005). In fact, past research has demonstrated that when is GID experienced in childhood, it has been correlated with low self-esteem and has been disruptive of healthy identity development (Hepp et al., 2005). Recently, inclusion of GID in the upcoming DSM-V has been a subject of debate. As the DSM currently stands, GID is considered an illness that can be “treated,” and many psychologists argue that considering only one form of gender identity development to be “healthy” may define gender in a heteronormative way (Zucker, 2006). The lack of understanding about the true causes and considerations involved in GID only leaves room for discriminatory, stereotyped classification of individuals developing gender identities. Society passes judgment in the face of uncertainty and the mystery of sex and gender is no exception. However, a neurological understanding of gender identity as it relates to sexual identity may allow both clinicians and the public increased exposure to constructs related to sex and gender. By increasing public knowledge about gender identity development beyond the hetero-normative tradition, we may be able to improve social acceptance for both children and adults diagnosed with GID, who do not fall in the traditional gender paradigm. Goes on to say that kids have it rough, and a lack of awareness of self can cause other psychological problems. Posted by Vince on May 18 2015,19:03
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,19:09) QUOTE Can you can guarantee that looking into the mental aspects won't be an excuse to lock 'em up in insane asylums and throw away they key? Again? No more than you can guarantee that looking into the physical body aspects won't be an excuse for medical surgical experimentation like they did... oh wait... Posted by Malcolm on May 18 2015,19:17
(Vince @ May 18 2015,21:03) QUOTE (TPRJones @ May 18 2015,19:09) QUOTE Can you can guarantee that looking into the mental aspects won't be an excuse to lock 'em up in insane asylums and throw away they key? Again? No more than you can guarantee that looking into the physical body aspects won't be an excuse for medical surgical experimentation like they did... oh wait... If someone wants to hack off their balls, it's their body, and they can. You've got quite a lot of proof to present to show they're mentally deficient or otherwise adversely affected by ... something, I don't even know what. < Here's what happens > when you treat sexuality society doesn't approve of as a disease. If we're calling transgenderism a mental illness, I guess all plastic surgery is symptomatic of < BDD > and prayer means you're schizophrenic. Posted by TPRJones on May 18 2015,20:10
(Vince @ May 18 2015,21:03) QUOTE (TPRJones @ May 18 2015,19:09) QUOTE Can you can guarantee that looking into the mental aspects won't be an excuse to lock 'em up in insane asylums and throw away they key? Again? No more than you can guarantee that looking into the physical body aspects won't be an excuse for medical surgical experimentation like they did... oh wait... Okay, but one way of approaching it means you are telling people they have to deny what they feel is right about who they are. The other way is enabling them to achieve what they feel they should be. Until there is evidence to the contrary I will lean towards the one that lets them do what they choose is right for themselves. Posted by Vince on May 19 2015,03:24
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,22:10) QUOTE Okay, but one way of approaching it means you are telling people they have to deny what they feel is right about who they are. That's about all that any treatment for a mental disorder is. As I've said all along, my issue is we are all acting like everyone has to celebrate who they think they are when that may or may not be helpful. We wouldn't do that with schizophrenia or social withdrawal or any other psychological disorder. I just think we might want to commit ourselves to learning more and honest pursuit of answers before we start handing out party poppers for transgender coming out parties. Posted by Vince on May 21 2015,12:10
< I don't know why, but I laughed really hard. >
Posted by Malcolm on May 24 2015,11:47
John Nash (the dude from A Beautiful Mind) died in a car accident. He had an interesting theory on mental illness.QUOTE Nash has suggested hypotheses on mental illness. He has compared not thinking in an acceptable manner, or being "insane" and not fitting into a usual social function, to being "on strike" from an economic point of view. He has advanced views in evolutionary psychology about the value of human diversity and the potential benefits of apparently nonstandard behaviors or roles.
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