|
Forum: Internet Links Topic: politics and neuroscience started by: Malcolm Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,10:30
< Heh >.
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,10:33
TFA managed to stick to the facts until the second to last paragraph:QUOTE An evolutionary bias against disgusting things makes a lot of sense -- avoiding rotting corpses and dirty toilets keeps us from getting sick. But it seems that being reminded of this deeply ingrained fear can also make us fear "the other," leading to xenophobia and other more conservative philosophies, studies say. I know "Remember to be xenophobic!" was right at the top of the latest "Conservative Talking Points" newsletter. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,10:38
QUOTE conservative I believe it's being used in the classical sense here, with respect to societal change. QUOTE Conservatism as a political and social philosophy promotes retaining traditional social institutions in the context of the culture and civilization. ... Xenophobia is the unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Sticking to tradition simply because you don't like or are frightened by new things is a good way to be described as xenophobic. Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,10:39
What does fear have to do with it?
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,10:42
(GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,12:39) QUOTE What does fear have to do with it? Fear and disgust prevent change or even proper interaction with objects. You generally shy away from things you label with either of those qualities and your analytical brain never gets to chew on them because of the overwhelming emotional response to avoid it. I suspect it's the root cause of most phobias in a great many people. Fear generally lives inside disgust. Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,10:45
I dislike the taste of spinach. I think it is disgusting. I have no fear of spinach.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,10:59
(GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,12:45) QUOTE I dislike the taste of spinach. I think it is disgusting. I have no fear of spinach. You'll go out of your way to avoid it and not consume it because you don't want to deal with the bad taste? Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,11:21
(Malcolm @ Oct. 30 2014,13:59) QUOTE (GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,12:45) QUOTE I dislike the taste of spinach. I think it is disgusting. I have no fear of spinach. You'll go out of your way to avoid it and not consume it because you don't want to deal with the bad taste? Just saying "fear" has nothing to do with it. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,11:38
(GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,13:21) QUOTE (Malcolm @ Oct. 30 2014,13:59) QUOTE (GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,12:45) QUOTE I dislike the taste of spinach. I think it is disgusting. I have no fear of spinach. You'll go out of your way to avoid it and not consume it because you don't want to deal with the bad taste? Just saying "fear" has nothing to do with it. Maybe that's a bit of a strong word. Substitute "entrenched avoidance" if you want. Point being, you're letting your aesthetics (taste) take over the decision process. Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,12:04
And yet I don't. I know spinach is good for me, so on italian night I eat a serving of it. I don't have any kind of fight or flight response when confronting spinach, I don't get an adrenaline boost, I don't have any kind of anxiety about it, and I don't have nightmares about it. It's a simple taste bud response, or brain interpretation of the taste buds, or whatever.I submit that one can dislike, or have distaste for, lots of things and ideas without actually fearing them. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,12:37
One wonders where the distaste comes from.
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,12:50
I probably got sexually molested by spinach as a young child and i repressed the memory.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,12:57
QUOTE I don't have any kind of anxiety about it You don't think about the shitty taste of spinach when you eat it? Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,12:59
(Malcolm @ Oct. 30 2014,15:57) QUOTE QUOTE I don't have any kind of anxiety about it You don't think about the shitty taste of spinach when you eat it? I would have a pretty flat EKG while eating it. I typically just eat the serving in one big bite to get it over with. Or mix it in with the sauce. Posted by Vince on Oct. 30 2014,13:41
(GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,12:33) QUOTE TFA managed to stick to the facts until the second to last paragraph: QUOTE An evolutionary bias against disgusting things makes a lot of sense -- avoiding rotting corpses and dirty toilets keeps us from getting sick. But it seems that being reminded of this deeply ingrained fear can also make us fear "the other," leading to xenophobia and other more conservative philosophies, studies say. I know "Remember to be xenophobic!" was right at the top of the latest "Conservative Talking Points" newsletter. I think nature trains us to be conservative (with a small "c" ) and to some extent xenophobic. How many cultures were wiped out when they made contact and mingled with another culture that brought the some sort of pox? I'm sure the Jews in the days of the Old Testament had no idea about parasites, but sticking to the old ways about not eating pork and all the rules about washing served them well and kept them in good health compared to many of the tribes around them. The animals and peoples that are open to trying new things either made some pretty significant observations/discoveries or didn't last too long. I wouldn't guess it's a dominant trait. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,13:56
QUOTE The animals and peoples that are open to trying new things either made some pretty significant observations/discoveries or didn't last too long. Uh ... no. Many animals have strong exploratory instincts. Nature also equipped them with the means to communicate those explorations to others. Posted by Vince on Oct. 30 2014,14:47
Yeah, I remember that herd of liberal white tail deer that was really curious about the wild coyotes and decided to go play with them and join their pack. It was so sweet and beautiful!
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,15:01
Deer are bright enough to keep the fuck away from carnivorous things with big teeth. They've been prey long enough. But they're also bright enough to forage for food in locations previously unknown to them and go back with other deer. Things like mice and snakes are genetically predisposed to taking chances exploring new places heretofore uncharted. Which is how they end up in toilets.
Posted by Vince on Oct. 30 2014,16:11
Deer aren't that bright. In Fairfield Bay where my parents used to live, no hunting was allowed. Where my dad owns his woodland, we do hunt. In Fairfield Bay, the deer are a nuisance. They have no flight reflex. It reached the point where before they moved my mom actually had to bump a doe with her car to get her to move out of the road. She was standing there staring at her for about five minutes even though my mom was blasting the horn and hanging her head out the car window yelling and shooing.At my dad's place, they're a lot more skittish because the deer without a decent flight response get culled out pretty quick and aren't given the opportunity to spread their seed for many hunting seasons the way the more cautious ones are. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,17:22
Fine. Evolution gave deer a free pass and they've inexplicably survived.
Posted by Vince on Oct. 30 2014,18:00
Actually, I was talking about the evolutionary process and the flight response of wildlife (in this case deer). Not really sure where you were going.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,18:23
QUOTE The animals and peoples that are open to trying new things either made some pretty significant observations/discoveries or didn't last too long. I wouldn't guess it's a dominant trait. This is very much a dominant trait. It's how creatures find new food sources during really shitty times. The ones that don't have this tend to die off. Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,18:42
Have there been any predators east of the Mississippi that have preyed on deer in the last thousand years, besides humans? Serious question. I can't think of any.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,18:58
Coyotes, bears, bobcats, wolves, cougars, gators.
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,19:14
(Malcolm @ Oct. 30 2014,21:58) QUOTE Coyotes, bears, bobcats, wolves, cougars, gators. Almost all of those things tend to hunt smaller prey unless it is dead. When were there last any wolves in the Appalachains? Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,21:36
(GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,21:14) QUOTE (Malcolm @ Oct. 30 2014,21:58) QUOTE Coyotes, bears, bobcats, wolves, cougars, gators. Almost all of those things tend to hunt smaller prey unless it is dead. When were there last any wolves in the Appalachains? < Now >. Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2014,22:32
QUOTE Beginning in 1991, red wolves were also released into the Great Smoky Mountains National Park in eastern Tennessee.[40] However, due to exposure to environmental disease (parvovirus), parasites and competition (with coyotes as well as intraspecific aggression), the red wolf was unable to successfully establish a wild population in the park. Low prey density was also a problem, forcing the wolves to leave the park boundaries in pursuit of food in lower elevations. If they had to leave the Smoky Mountains because of low prey density, then they aren't eating deer. Posted by Vince on Oct. 31 2014,05:03
(GORDON @ Oct. 30 2014,21:14) QUOTE (Malcolm @ Oct. 30 2014,21:58) QUOTE Coyotes, bears, bobcats, wolves, cougars, gators. Almost all of those things tend to hunt smaller prey unless it is dead. When were there last any wolves in the Appalachains? Coyotes are more scavengers than hunters. They rarely are found killing anything bigger than themselves even when in a pack. Only black bears East of the Mississippi and they mostly eat berries and roots. Occasionally they go after fish. A fawn might be targeted, but I doubt they'd be able to do anything with a bigger animal. Plus the fawns defensive measure is to drop and blend while mom draws off the predator. That's probably the only reason a black bear would be able to catch a fawn. Bobcats might go after a turkey. Again, one might go after a fawn, but adult deer would be a bit much for them. Besides, bobcat tend to hunt by sound and sight and deer aren't very noisy generally speaking. Wolves aren't much of a concern east of the Mississippi in any numbers. I hear cougars are making a comeback east of the river. They will probably begin to be an issue for the deer again at some point. Gators will kill deer, but they're more like a spider than a wild hunter. They'll eat whatever comes along within reach. Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 31 2014,09:49
< Yeah, totally >.QUOTE Only black bears East of the Mississippi and they mostly eat berries and roots. I think black bears are quite capable of taking down a deer. Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 30 2014,15:49
(Vince @ Oct. 30 2014,16:47) QUOTE Yeah, I remember that herd of liberal white tail deer that was really curious about the wild coyotes and decided to go play with them and join their pack. It was so sweet and beautiful! It's not deer and wolves, but somewhat close. I should note these are polar bears that just woke up from hibernation, i.e. are starving. Additionally, it's a learned behaviour because it only used to be one dog and one bear. The bear brought back friends every year. Total fatalities: 0. |