Thunderdome 2015 » Printable Version of Topic

Forum: Internet Links
Topic: Ebola
started by: Vince

Posted by Vince on Oct. 03 2014,12:45

Interesting story < here > about some of the stuff we were guessing about in the other thread.

Wasn't the reusing of equipment that got the doctor infected. It was a regular hospital patient that only had a fever. Not the "obviously violently ill" patient like the CDC keeps telling us. On one hand, there's the "everyone has a fever over there", but the flip side of that is that this is an area where they should be best at recognizing the symptoms compared with most. Plus this was one of the doctors with a lot of experience with the disease.

The other thing that kind of boggles the mind is the CDC just wanting to send all of his coworkers home after they got back to the states and them quarantining themselves.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 03 2014,12:59

Some doctor on The Colbert Report explained all this quite well last night. The chances of you getting infected with ebola are less than the odds of you dying in a car crash or due to a random allergic reaction you have.

Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 03 2014,14:18

(Vince @ Oct. 03 2014,15:45)

QUOTE

It was a regular hospital patient that only had a fever. Not the "obviously violently ill" patient like the CDC keeps telling us. On one hand, there's the "everyone has a fever over there", but the flip side of that is that this is an area where they should be best at recognizing the symptoms compared with most. Plus this was one of the doctors with a lot of experience with the disease.

The other thing that kind of boggles the mind is the CDC just wanting to send all of his coworkers home after they got back to the states and them quarantining themselves.

I've not heard "obviously violently ill," I've heard "symptomatic."

At any rate, it seems time to stop travelers from West Africa from entering the US.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,14:25

(Malcolm @ Oct. 03 2014,15:59)

QUOTE

Well... that doesn't make sense. Contracting ebola doesn't have anything to do with the odds of getting in a car accident, and if more people get ebola, it changes the comparison.

The fact is, CDC doctors and shit are just guessing, because ebola has never been here before. Chances are, everything will be fine. Would not be the first time, however, that we knew all the facts and then there ended up being some unanticipated factor.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,14:28

(TheCatt @ Oct. 03 2014,17:18)

QUOTE

(Vince @ Oct. 03 2014,15:45)

QUOTE

I've not heard "obviously violently ill," I've heard "symptomatic."

At any rate, it seems time to stop travelers from West Africa from entering the US.

Read an article earlier that said it wouldn't work... it would keep us from solving the big picture problem, which is curing it in Africa, and to do that researches have to go to and from there.

Sounded like a load of shit to me, but that's what the article said.

I will see if I can find it.

*time passes*

Here it is. It is the CDC Chief using an argument that I find to be really fucking stupid.

< http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/ebola-us-border-111581.html >

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 03 2014,14:38

You expecting a mutation, Dr. G?

Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 03 2014,14:40

(GORDON @ Oct. 03 2014,17:25)

QUOTE

(Malcolm @ Oct. 03 2014,15:59)

QUOTE

Agreed. The CURRENT odds may be that low, but it's dynamic.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 03 2014,14:40

(GORDON @ Oct. 03 2014,16:25)

QUOTE

(Malcolm @ Oct. 03 2014,15:59)

QUOTE

I thought the same thing. The odds of dying in a car wreck in 1910 was a whole hell of a lot less than it is today. Same deal.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,14:44

(Malcolm @ Oct. 03 2014,17:38)

QUOTE

You expecting a mutation, Dr. G?

I would bet a dollar on it, but not much more. I don't think there will be a massive spread of the disease.... but I am not willing to bet my family's lives on it because shit happens. Closing the border border to people who have been to west africa recently is a fairly easy thing to do - we already have do-not-fly protocols in place that keep people from getting on planes to the US, and it is pretty easy to read passport stamps. It wouldn't be perfect, but is it really that much of an extreme measure?

How about a 21 day quarantine?

Anything would put voters at ease, the response is to do nothing. I would like a threshold number so we know when it was a mistake. 10 people infected? 50? When does it become a bad decision?

Posted by Vince on Oct. 03 2014,14:50

(GORDON @ Oct. 03 2014,16:28)

QUOTE

Here it is. It is the CDC Chief using an argument that I find to be really fucking stupid.

< http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/ebola-us-border-111581.html >

I'm not for sealing the border, but I think a 3 week quarantine from the impacted countries isn't a bad idea.

But the CDC is pretty stupid.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,15:00

(Vince @ Oct. 03 2014,17:50)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Oct. 03 2014,16:28)

QUOTE

Here it is. It is the CDC Chief using an argument that I find to be really fucking stupid.

< http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/ebola-us-border-111581.html >

I'm not for sealing the border, but I think a 3 week quarantine from the impacted countries isn't a bad idea.

But the CDC is pretty stupid.

To me they sound arrogant. If they hadn't been making mistakes all along I would be less uneasy.

History shows again and again how nature points out the follies of man. Ebola!

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,15:03

And I never said seal the border. No one has said seal the border. We're just saying restrict travel from the fucking region with the rampant plague that makes you shoot blood from your eyes, ears, and asshole. It doesn't sound unreasonable, to me. Maybe I am just a panic-stricken moron.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,15:27

Someone on Fark pointed out that the same people who say a half degree rise in temperature by the end of the century is going to kill us all are the same ones saying no one in america is going to die of ebola. Applies to fark people, not here.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 03 2014,15:54

QUOTE

...and if more people get ebola, it changes the comparison.

I have little to no medical training. Unless the means of transmission changes, even I know how to avoid getting sick. I have enough clothing and duct tape to MacGyver up a cleansuit. Someone might die, but I will guarantee you're talking a single digit death toll, if that.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 03 2014,19:03

(GORDON @ Oct. 03 2014,16:44)

QUOTE

Anything would put voters at ease, the response is to do nothing. I would like a threshold number so we know when it was a mistake. 10 people infected? 50? When does it become a bad decision?

I've been trying to figure out where my trigger should be for getting out of town. Already told my boss if it looks like a pandemic then I'm bouncing.

I've survived being unemployed before. I've never survived being dead.

Trick is to set your thresholds before you have a chance to convince yourself that it isn't that bad yet.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,19:07

It'll be greater than four. Four Americans were killed at Benghazi and most people don't believe any mistakes were made by the government, so the ebola death number will be greater than that before people get angry.

(Wonder if the filmmaker is still in jail that obama called out)

Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 03 2014,19:29

I have no significant worry of pandemic from this thing. But I'd still prefer we took some precautions.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2014,19:44

(TheCatt @ Oct. 03 2014,22:29)

QUOTE

I have no significant worry of pandemic from this thing. But I'd still prefer we took some precautions.

This seems like a reasonable answer.

Why does it make some people so angry?

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 03 2014,19:57

QUOTE

Maybe I am just a panic-stricken moron.

I do not consider you a moron. The rest of it, however, might be true.

If you live in a third world country and someone in your immediate family has Ebola and is being taken care of at home and you don't have any special knowledge or medical supplies to do it right and are spending the entire time of their infection right there with them, then the odds of you getting it as well are one in seven.

Change any of those factors - send them to hospital, use modern sanitation, limit your exposure, use gloves and disinfectants and avoid direct contact with infected blood - and your odds of getting Ebola plummet tremendously. And that's for people who have someone in their family that has it.

Of the "100 people exposed" to the sick guy in Texas, extremely bad luck might mean one of them will get ill. But even that is unlikely. That's hardly going to make for a very good pandemic. If an evil genius tried to end the world with an Ebola outbreak the other evil geniuses would all laugh at him.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 04 2014,02:43

(TheCatt @ Oct. 03 2014,21:29)

QUOTE

I have no significant worry of pandemic from this thing. But I'd still prefer we took some precautions.

My biggest worry is that I'm in a call center where most people are hourly (thus they tend to come in even when they're fairly sick) and we're all in pretty close proximity without individual cubes. It would be a pretty easy place to get contaminated.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 04 2014,10:38

Gloves, goggles, long pants, mask, long sleeves. Done. You're protected. Make sure you don't fall into a puddle of blood or mucous.

Hell, a $1.50 disposable rain poncho will do the trick.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 07 2014,06:46

Saw an interview with one of the doctors from Samaritan's Purse (the group with the infected doc mentioned earlier in the thread). Turns out they aren't certain that the doc got Ebola from the regular hospital. They are just "pretty sure" of that at this point.

One thing the doctor did say which you aren't really hearing much of is that this time with the outbreak in Africa, it's spreading much further and faster than ever before. He didn't mention the expanded time between infection and showing symptoms this time around (was around 7-10 days, now it's 21 days) which I'm sure is allowing it to travel further before the carrier gets laid up. All he said was, "something's different this time".

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 07 2014,07:20

QUOTE

All he said was, "something's different this time".

Not different enough to make it airborne. < Real > < diseases > to worry about.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 07 2014,07:45

(Malcolm @ Oct. 07 2014,09:20)

QUOTE

All he said was, "something's different this time".

Not different enough to make it airborne. < Real > < diseases > to worry about.

Mortality of bubonic plague is 1-15%

1918 flu was 20% (and Ebola has been much more active in recent years)

Ebola's best rates right now are about 50% in areas with better than average health care. 90% has been closer to the running average.

Until we know what IS different, guesses about what ISN'T different are just that. Guesses. Not that I think it's likely that it's airborne, but we're being extremely reckless. British Airs and France have placed travel restrictions on flights. Guess who doesn't have an Ebola case in their countries currently?

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 07 2014,08:14

QUOTE

Mortality of bubonic plague is 1-15%

When treated.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 07 2014,08:34

(Malcolm @ Oct. 07 2014,10:14)

QUOTE

Mortality of bubonic plague is 1-15%

When treated.

Yeah, and that of Ebola has been between 50-90% when treated.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 07 2014,17:27

(Vince @ Oct. 04 2014,04:43)

QUOTE

It would be a pretty easy place to get contaminated.

Do you often have other people's blood and mucus put into your open wounds or mucous membranes at your place of employment? Because that sounds nasty.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 07 2014,17:42

Ever see one of those videos that shows how a person's sneeze will pretty much fill up a room with mucous droplets?

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 07 2014,17:57

True, but still, ick. They really should sneeze into their sleeve or something.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 07 2014,18:19

Yeah, they should.

Just saying.

I was thinking today how interesting it would be.... since the ebola survival rate has been pretty much 0 in the past, what if it will remain dormant in your system even if you survive it? What if you become a permanent carrier, and we just don't know it yet? Just one of those unknown unknowns I mentioned earlier.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 07 2014,18:42

(GORDON @ Oct. 07 2014,19:42)

QUOTE

Ever see one of those videos that shows how a person's sneeze will pretty much fill up a room with mucous droplets?

That. And a simple cough travels about 5 feet. I think the sneeze is 13-17.

Saw a news article where they were quoting one of the early Ebola doctors saying he wouldn't rule out the notion that this strain is living a short time air borne because this one is traveling much faster and further than the Ebola he studied was capable of doing. He said this one is passing way too easy.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 07 2014,18:47

Even at it's historical worst, 10% of those infected survived it. Usually it's better than that. It's never been pretty much 0.

Two strains have been found to persist in semen for several weeks in survivors, but not forever. So there's a window of time afterwords that can be of concern. More studies need to be done. But there haven't been any cases on record of infection due to interaction with a survivor long-term, so I bet such a study would find that after at most a few months the virus is completely gone. But that's just speculation based on currently known history.

Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 08 2014,14:41

< Additional screening at 5 US airports >

Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 09 2014,14:39

< LOL >

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 10 2014,05:37

To me this whole thing appears to be filled with stupid but I will just address a few lines of it:

< http://www.foxnews.com/opinion....utbreak >

QUOTE

When a wildfire breaks out we don't fence it off. We go in to extinguish it before one of the random sparks sets off another outbreak somewhere else.

Since he decided to use that metaphor, I will respond in kind: people who fight wildfires build fire breaks all the time.

QUOTE

We don't want to isolate parts of the world, or people who aren't sick, because that's going to drive patients with Ebola underground, making it infinitely more difficult to address the outbreak.

Yes, we do. Why wouldn't we? Who cares if they go underground? There isn't even any more of the cure in the USA, the first guy who got ebola used it all up. I know it is a radical suggestion but keep the people with the deadly, organ-melting disease way the fuck away from me.

QUOTE

It could even cause these countries to stop working with the international community as they refuse to report cases because they fear the consequences of a border closing.

Don't care. Fuck them and the border. When they can keep their citizens from bathing in each others diseased bodily fluids, then we can talk about border crossing privileges.

Anyway. My point is, I don't agree with his reasons.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 10 2014,07:03

Those are all some of the most stupid suggestions I've ever heard and have to wonder who's telling these guys to say this stupid shit or threatening them. No one is suggesting we don't help these countries. They're suggesting we restrict the casual travel in and out of them, at least to the US. It's just plain stupid.

Apparently the mothers back in the old days that had their kids go play with the kid that developed chicken pox so their kids got infected were doing it wrong. They should have kept their kids AWAY from the infected kids, because that's how you spread a disease.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 10 2014,08:45

(Vince @ Oct. 10 2014,10:03)

QUOTE

Apparently the mothers back in the old days that had their kids go play with the kid that developed chicken pox so their kids got infected were doing it wrong. They should have kept their kids AWAY from the infected kids, because that's how you spread a disease.

"The Great Brain," by J.D. Fitzgerald, if I recall the author's initials correctly. Stories about a christian family in a very Mormon town in the 1800's. I read those books to my kid a couple years ago. They spread the chicken pox among their kids in exactly that way because getting it as kids would be fine, but getting it as an adult could be fatal.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 10 2014,09:08

Yeah, I knew they used to do that and the why. When I was in college I had class with a guy that got it as an adult. He was out for quite a while. Bad stuff for an adult.

Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 10 2014,10:38

I loved those books as a kid.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 12 2014,06:03

Medical person that was involved with the treatment of Thomas Duncan becomes 2nd person in US to get Ebola. I'll feel somewhat better if it turns out they were involved in his first visit to the ER when they thought there was no way he had Ebola.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 12 2014,06:50

Well crap...

QUOTE

UPDATE (9:20 a.m. EDT): CNN reported new details Sunday morning on the health worker infected with Ebola in Texas: The victim is a female nurse, and Texas Health Resources chief clinical officer Dan Varga said she was involved in Thomas Eric Duncan’s second visit to the hospital, meaning that she was wearing full protective gear when she interacted with Duncan, the first person diagnosed with the virus in the U.S.

A “close contact” of the nurse has been “proactively” isolated as well, Varga said.

The fact that the nurse was apparently wearing the full gown, gloves, mask and shield meant to prevent Ebola transmission when she was treating Duncan adds a new layer of concern as the virus has been characterized as “difficult to catch” by news outlets and the government.

In addition to speaking with CNN, Varga issued a statement Sunday morning, confirming that the nurse is in “stable” condition.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 12 2014,07:33

The number of cases in the U.S. doubled in just under two weeks.

By that rate, we'll all have Ebola in a bit over a year!

Posted by Troy on Oct. 12 2014,07:46

Yeah that sucks though. As if we didn't know that treating the disease is dangerous in the third world, let alone here.

Someone posting earlier about a really tough strain - long incubation time and now any contact surface? Home Security guy on Meet the Press is blaming it on following procedure right or not. Implies health care workers being sloppy.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 12 2014,08:34

It very well may be user error with the protective suit. The nurse in Spain thinks she may have touched her face after removing her gear, but before washing her hands. That makes me wonder how long this stuff can live on a surface like that? If someone goes into Walgreens or Rite-Aid and sneezes or coughs on a box of Thermaflu because that's what they think they have coming on, how long can it live on all the contaminated surfaces at that point? Someone else comes in and touches the box and wipes their nose and now they could have it.

Another thing I was thinking about is how many cases do you guess it'd take before the powers that be lose their ability to accurately track the people a patient may have had contact with? The first patient had them monitoring about 40 people? Is that right? If that holds true for the average, with 10 people you're tracking 400 people. With 100 cases, 4,000. I think at that point they've lost any notion of being able to even monitor its spread until after the fact, much less contain it.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 12 2014,19:07

< Idiots >

QUOTE

But, according to Frieden, “at some point, there was a breach in protocol, and that breach in protocol resulted in this infection.” Investigators with the CDC are now looking into what that breach could have been. They are focusing the investigation on the kidney dialysis process, the removal of Duncan’s respiratory equipment, and the removal of the worker’s protective gear.

Here's the type of arrogance that's going to kill people. Until you know how she got it, please stop saying with certainty how you think she got it. Maybe there was a breach in protocol. Or maybe you're just not as clever as you think you are.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 13 2014,10:55

< Republicans did that shit >.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 13 2014,11:03

(Malcolm @ Oct. 13 2014,12:55)

QUOTE

< Republicans did that shit >.

I saw that. Then another story was blaming the NRA.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,10:08

So the 2nd person has it, which I predicted would be a problem. Going from 1 to 2 means at least an algebraic spread which will be difficult to contain.

< http://www.foxnews.com/politic....r-virus >

Head of the CDC is being pressured to step down due to being a fucking moron.

The 2 people infected were hospital workers, and "insufficiently following protocols" has been blamed. So... this means they were swapping spit with the patient? I was told he only way to spread it was with fluid exchange. If so, they really need to examine their protocols. One would think "Don't tongue the bleeding asshole of an ebola patient" would be really near the top of the page on the list of things to not do.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,10:20

I heard the CDC chief say that in retrospect he wishes that he'd sent a team out to Dallas when the first patient was diagnosed. I was like, "Ye... what? You didn't send anyone to assist the hospital?"

So they keep talking like these nurses were at fault for breaking "protocol", but apparently no one ever trained them on what the protocol was and the hospital did not have the proper personal protection gear (Malcolm's above proscribed solution is apparently not up to code and not too far from what they were actually using).

At this point I think anyone believing the CDC's assurances and placing their health in the CDC's hands for all of this are the same type that showed up at the Superdome when Katrina was coming in.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,10:23

Oh, and the 2nd nurse to get it flew the day before symptoms appeared from Cleveland to Dallas and the plane stayed in use.

What makes me most uneasy is that Obama cancelled a fund raiser. What do they know that we don't? Obama has NEVER given a crap about the optics of stuff like that.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,10:25

Hmmm.

Go to Walmart today, or tomorrow.... don't feel like going back into town today, but also don't want to be behind the shit-is-going-to-hit-the-fan curve.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,10:28

I have time. Everybody who gets infected on that plane aren't going to show symptoms for 2-3 weeks.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,10:43

No, I think that's "up to" 3 weeks. I think they can start showing symptoms in as little as 48 hrs in some cases.

Posted by Troy on Oct. 15 2014,10:47

Fuck. Wife and I are having a talk about this tonight. Barebones plan is all that is needed, but better to be thinking about it than not.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,10:50

(Troy @ Oct. 15 2014,13:47)

QUOTE

Fuck. Wife and I are having a talk about this tonight. Barebones plan is all that is needed, but better to be thinking about it than not.

I don't think I would trust "camps" or whatever. Best plan, to me, is to be able to hole up at home with enough food and water to last a month, and probably have a gun so you can keep it.

Posted by Troy on Oct. 15 2014,10:52

Luckily I married into NC mountain folk.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 15 2014,10:54

QUOTE

The nation's largest nurses' union described how Duncan was left in an open area of the emergency room for hours. National Nurses United, citing unidentified nurses, said staff treated Duncan for days without the correct protective gear, that hazardous waste was allowed to pile up to the ceiling and safety protocols constantly changed.

Fucking seriously? "To the ceiling" sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. The rest is madness. You can insulate yourself against this disease for as little as $20 in a goddamn near flawless manner.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,11:10

(Troy @ Oct. 15 2014,12:47)

QUOTE

Fuck. Wife and I are having a talk about this tonight. Barebones plan is all that is needed, but better to be thinking about it than not.

This is what I'm wrestling with. I think it's too easy to end up with a creeping threshold for deciding when it's time to do something. To keep saying to yourself, "if it gets worse than this, then we're going to have to do something", but each time that next thing happens to move the goalposts again. So I'm trying to figure out ahead of time where the threshold should be for "this is going to become an 'oh shit' moment for a lot of people", before it actually becomes an "oh shit" moment for me and the wife.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,11:16

(GORDON @ Oct. 15 2014,12:50)

QUOTE

(Troy @ Oct. 15 2014,13:47)

QUOTE

Fuck. Wife and I are having a talk about this tonight. Barebones plan is all that is needed, but better to be thinking about it than not.

I don't think I would trust "camps" or whatever. Best plan, to me, is to be able to hole up at home with enough food and water to last a month, and probably have a gun so you can keep it.

I think you'd need a lot more than a month's worth honestly. Hell, even after the smoke clears in your area you're probably talking at least a month before anyone's willing to venture into what was a hot zone before with food and supplies for anyone left alive there.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 15 2014,11:25

I will go into ground zero of an ebola-infected zone you got. Provided I got my $20 of biohaz gear.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,11:33

I get dibs on Malcolm's food!

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 15 2014,11:47

(Vince @ Oct. 15 2014,13:33)

QUOTE

I get dibs on Malcolm's food!

Until I come back, uninfected, and reclaim my pantry.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 15 2014,11:59

Even if it does spread further, I predict that the flu will still kill at least 100 times more people on US soil in the next 12 months than ebola does.

Anyone want to make that into a bet?

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,11:59

(Malcolm @ Oct. 15 2014,14:25)

QUOTE

I will go into ground zero of an ebola-infected zone you got. Provided I got my $20 of biohaz gear.

The problem is always other people, though. If they think you have a snickers bar in your pocket they are going to rip through your visqueen and duct tape to get at it.

Maybe more than a month. I think there would start being food drops by then, is what I based it on.

Hopefully my local authorities will know the right time to enforce a 100% quarantine. Let the infected households die before they infect their neighbors, then burn their houses down when it's all over. One month of "don't leave your house or you will be shot on sight" and the problem takes care of itself.

Posted by Troy on Oct. 15 2014,12:01

Your guys' view of anarchy sure is ordered and structured.

Posted by Leisher on Oct. 15 2014,12:02

Even knowing what we know about the disease, if you had been on that flight, how normal would your routine be right now?

If you're a parent or married, how far would you go to keep from potentially infecting loved ones?

Would you work from home for the next 3 weeks?

This CDC chief is a moron, but how has nobody questioned his majesty yet? How come more people aren't talking smack about the dude that died? He's the one who lied about his condition in the first place.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,12:04

(Troy @ Oct. 15 2014,15:01)

QUOTE

Your guys' view of anarchy sure is ordered and structured.

In my immediate area I think there are enough men with guns to keep things under control if suddenly there was no one to collect taxes. I don't live in a city, though.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,12:06

(Leisher @ Oct. 15 2014,15:02)

QUOTE

How come more people aren't talking smack about the dude that died? He's the one who lied about his condition in the first place.

He's a cocksucker but I get the "motivated self interest" of his actions. He's scum for infecting his family, though. The fault lies with our government at a national level for not preventing it, and that time is past. It's time to start thinking about what to do on a personal level.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 15 2014,12:07

QUOTE

Even knowing what we know about the disease, if you had been on that flight, how normal would your routine be right now?

Unless he coughed less than six inches from my face or I fell in a puddle of blood spontaneously spurted from his arteries, I wouldn't be worried. Maybe get one of these.

QUOTE

The most common diagnostic methods are therefore real-time PCR and ELISA detection of proteins, which can be performed in field or mobile hospitals.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,13:15

(Troy @ Oct. 15 2014,14:01)

QUOTE

Your guys' view of anarchy sure is ordered and structured.

I think things would go to shit pretty quick. It would require the national guard and body collection and disposal teams in full hazmat suits (not this stupid shit the CDC thinks you need to survive it).

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,13:20

< Umm... what? >

QUOTE

Dr. Tom Frieden, director for the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), said during a telephone press briefing Wednesday that you cannot get Ebola by sitting next to someone on a bus, but that infected or exposed persons should not ride public transportation because they could transmit the disease to someone else.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,13:40

(TPRJones @ Oct. 15 2014,13:59)

QUOTE

Even if it does spread further, I predict that the flu will still kill at least 100 times more people on US soil in the next 12 months than ebola does.

Anyone want to make that into a bet?

You're probably right. But if you're wrong it'll be like "Wile Coyote leave a crater" wrong. I don't think we'll really know for a couple more months. So far it looks like it's as hard to pass before symptoms appear as they claim. Once sick, it seems to be easier to pass than they claim seeing as we've had two health care workers infected (so far) from just the one patient.

If they don't get a handle on this in the hospitals, Ebola may kill more people with the flu simply by being in the area and hospital workers not showing up for work. If you see what I'm saying. Hospital personnel are starting to get understandably agitated.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,13:45

The second closest hospital to me where I took my mother in law yesterday had ebola signs up in the lobby, about how if you are showing X symptoms, notify staff immediately.

And I was flirting with one of her doctors a few days ago and I made an ebola joke and her response made it obvious she had read up on procedures recently.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 15 2014,14:14

(Vince @ Oct. 15 2014,15:20)

QUOTE

< Umm... what? >

QUOTE

If they sneeze on some metal hand rails, it's still transmission.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 15 2014,16:57

Ebola can survive at room temperature for about five days if suspended in blood. So technically yes you can get it from a handrail that someone coughed blood on but only if you rub that blood into a cut on your hand or directly into your eyes, mouth, nose, genitals, or anus after touching it. Even if you touch the microscopic blood bits that have ebola in them, the odds are small that you'll infect yourself with it before rubbing it off on some other surface. And you can't get infected from just one or even a hundred individual viruses. Like other viruses it takes several thousand or million to get enough of a foothold to get you.

So transmission on a bus is unlikely unless there's a lot of blood being flung around (beware the bleeding epileptic ebola patient!), but certainly not impossible. Still the way he said that was really dumb.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,17:12

(TPRJones @ Oct. 15 2014,19:57)

QUOTE

So technically yes you can get it from a handrail that someone coughed blood on but only if you rub that blood into a cut on your hand or directly into your eyes, mouth, nose, genitals, or anus after touching it.

Is this how the nurses got it?

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 15 2014,17:25

Not really sure, but from what I gather they probably got it from improper handling of infected protection gear. If so, then essentially yes. With the difference being that the infected item was known to be infected instead of being a random unknown encounter. If that's all true then there's really no excuse, they should have known better.

Although I haven't seen where the CDC is forthcoming with details, so that's mostly built on speculation I must admit.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 15 2014,17:58

QUOTE

Dennis Miller is telling Bill O'Reilly that the NBC Medical Chief needs to be fired because she was home on ebola quarantine and she left her apartment to go get soup.

Wow. Medically it is entirely possible to do that with complete safety if proper precautions are taken. But politically that is plain stupid with all the panic floating around. She probably should be let go just for PR reasons.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 15 2014,18:30

(GORDON @ Oct. 15 2014,19:12)

QUOTE

(TPRJones @ Oct. 15 2014,19:57)

QUOTE

Is this how the nurses got it?

They got it by being stupid. Biohaz protocol is not difficult in a controlled environment for a disease like this. Chalk it up to incompetence.

Rubbing it into your eyes isn't totally out of the question, but I say that as a contact lens wearer.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,18:40

I am starting to think Malcolm is trying out for the CDC chief's job.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,19:00

Chick who flew from cleveland called the CDC "several" times to tell them she had been close to ebola patients, and now had a fever. CDC cleared her to fly.

< http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-nurse-called-cdc-several-times/ >

Seriously, tell me again how these people aren't criminally clueless.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 16 2014,03:48

I think the CDC's been watching the potential victim's Facebook status, so they have it under control.

Posted by Troy on Oct. 16 2014,07:52

What can you say? It's like one of those Outbreak movies.

Actually, the government/CDC in those movies usually looks like they are competent but just can't keep up with the spread. We can't even get competent in real life.

I agree with what others have said, 2-3 weeks from know we'll know if this is actually something to worry about. One N1, Two N2s, ?? N3s.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 16 2014,08:07

I've got the entire eastern part of the country to buffer me.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 16 2014,08:21

Sadly, I was a lot less worried about it before I saw the CDC fly into action. Still not willing to restrict travel from the west African countries where it's ballooning up, but they ARE talking about limiting the travel of the healthcare workers that come in contact with the patients here in the states.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 16 2014,08:22

CDC probably picks their workers from the same pool of savants the cops seem to get their recruits from.

Posted by Troy on Oct. 16 2014,08:25

Fuck Cops, and the Government... also Ebola - Malcom

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 16 2014,08:28

(Troy @ Oct. 16 2014,10:25)

QUOTE

Fuck Cops, and the Government... also Ebola - Malcom

The government looks to go out of its way to hire the most incompetent, clueless employees possible.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 16 2014,09:04

You won't find me defending the CDC. While what they've done is correct in medical terms and fine if you presume that the local health professionals are actually competent, they've been totally blowing it from a public relations standpoint and ultimately as a branch of the government that's an important part of what they are supposed to do. You'd almost think they are trying to make people panic more instead of less.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 16 2014,09:33

On the up side, they've spent a lot of money building bike paths in our cities.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 16 2014,10:31

(Troy @ Oct. 16 2014,10:52)

QUOTE

That's funny, I have been thinking for the last couple days about the movie Outbreak. The doctors in that movie were totally awesome and made the CDC look really competent and I wonder if that is why we are so surprised, now. We thought they had their shit together, and it turns out their just a bunch of political bureaucrats.

They should totally put Rene Russo in charge of the CDC and Dustin Hoffman in charge of USAMRID. Infect Kevin Spacey and have Donald Sutherland arrested. Peeps would be all USA USA at that point.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 16 2014,10:41

Speaking of the breakdown of civilization, anarchy, and quarantine:

What would be required to take a month and make it an "financial freebie" month? All businesses close. No stock markets. No banks. No bills are due... everyone gets a free month (this one is difficult because someone needs to be in the power plant). No school. No flights. No busses. 24 hour curfew for 30 days. Everyone gets to skip a mortgage payment without penalty. The point being, everyone can stay home for a month and neither catch nor carry this disease. Another problem would be pregnant women and medical emergencies.... maybe let hospital staff out and about but only with full biohazard gear.

Anyway, in a month this would all sort itself out. Those with it would die, and there would be no more spread.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 16 2014,10:43

QUOTE

What would be required to take a month and make it an "financial freebie" month?

An act of god. Check that. Several acts of several gods working together.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 16 2014,10:49

You know, we could also cure the AIDS epidemic by killing everyone currently infected. Just saying.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 16 2014,10:50

(GORDON @ Oct. 16 2014,12:49)

QUOTE

You know, we could also cure the AIDS epidemic by killing everyone currently infected. Just saying.

Unless the virus jumps from apes to people again.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 16 2014,10:52

(Malcolm @ Oct. 16 2014,13:50)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Oct. 16 2014,12:49)

QUOTE

You know, we could also cure the AIDS epidemic by killing everyone currently infected. Just saying.

Unless the virus jumps from apes to people again.

Well of course I meant kill all the apes, too.

Posted by Troy on Oct. 16 2014,11:04

Burn it all down. Make it a parking lot.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 16 2014,11:05

(GORDON @ Oct. 16 2014,12:52)

QUOTE

(Malcolm @ Oct. 16 2014,13:50)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Oct. 16 2014,12:49)

QUOTE

You know, we could also cure the AIDS epidemic by killing everyone currently infected. Just saying.

Unless the virus jumps from apes to people again.

Well of course I meant kill all the apes, too.

Apist. < Caesar > is pissed.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 16 2014,13:12

Especially apes with tats.

Posted by thibodeaux on Oct. 17 2014,05:38

"Ebola Gay."

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 17 2014,06:19

My kid goes bowling with this school group on Fridays. He didn't want to go tonight. I asked why. He said because there would be ebowla, there.

Posted by Troy on Oct. 17 2014,10:04

Your kid is gonna be that guy who walks around recess with hand sanitizer bottles in holsters. Don't let him be that guy.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 17 2014,10:05

(Troy @ Oct. 17 2014,13:04)

QUOTE

Your kid is gonna be that guy who walks around recess with hand sanitizer bottles in holsters. Don't let him be that guy.

I'm really working on it. His mother already has him wound up tight as hell.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 17 2014,10:18

One other thing to consider about the CDC is that their mandate and power as a governmental institution is pretty limited. They don't have the power to come in and take over a hospital or what have you. Their power is almost purely advisory unless specifically requested to render aid, and even then they probably don't have the manpower on hand to do anything too major.

That's why they issue advisories and opinions and go with the assumption that the local medical staff are competent enough to do as recommended. Because that's what they're allowed to do.

Perhaps they should have more power for emergencies? I don't know, in general I'm not a big fan of giving federal agencies authority to go out and stomp on local autonomy. But some people are.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 17 2014,10:21

If CDC doesn't have power to come in, FEMA certainly does, and FEMA can use the CDC as a resource.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 17 2014,11:01

< The solution >? More oversight.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 17 2014,11:08

Well Obama needs to have SOMEONE to throw under the bus.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 17 2014,11:11

< Ridley Scott > and ebola.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 17 2014,11:16

< May I recommend > some equipment to draw blood, a super soaker, and a trip to Congress?

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 17 2014,12:58

(TPRJones @ Oct. 17 2014,13:18)

QUOTE

Watched an episode of House during lunch today when there was smallpox in the hospital and the CDC came in and took over and locked it down.

Are you saying House is inaccurate?

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 17 2014,14:10

(GORDON @ Oct. 17 2014,12:21)

QUOTE

If CDC doesn't have power to come in, FEMA certainly does, and FEMA can use the CDC as a resource.

FEMA can't come in unless the state in question makes an official request. Remember how everyone yelled at Bush for FEMA not going into New Orleans after Katrina even though they couldn't because the governor of Louisiana hadn't asked them to?

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 17 2014,14:41

(TPRJones @ Oct. 17 2014,17:10)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Oct. 17 2014,12:21)

QUOTE

If CDC doesn't have power to come in, FEMA certainly does, and FEMA can use the CDC as a resource.

Yes, I do remember that, now that you mention it.

I have become accustomed to Obama just doing whatever he wants in spite of the law. The CDC would have closed the border from west Africa if Obama told them to. I see all of this as his failure.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 20 2014,03:44

(TPRJones @ Oct. 17 2014,12:18)

QUOTE

That's why they issue advisories and opinions and go with the assumption that the local medical staff are competent enough to do as recommended. Because that's what they're allowed to do.

Looking at the testimony from the head of the CDC last week, they don't even seem to be doing that very well. The hospital staff made some mistakes, but they were also given piss poor advice as well. And to assume every US hospital staff if proficient with level 4 containment protocols indicates that too many in the CDC are products of academia and have never spent much time in a US hospital seeming what they deal with every day. It ain't level 4 containment illnesses.

I'd feel better if the CDC brought in someone from Doctors Without Borders that actually have had to deal with this on a daily basis while helping over there to advise them.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 20 2014,08:55

Agreed, something along those lines would have been perfect.

But the CDC is kind of dumb when it comes to messaging. You know, like NASA public relations.

Posted by TheCatt on Oct. 20 2014,13:21

< Ebloa hard to spread. >

I have a doctor appointment Wednesday. Got asked about Ebola exposure.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 20 2014,13:27

Yesterday at an amusement park. They play music videos for you to watch while on queue. Toto's "Africa" came on. The kid and I were changing the lyrics....

First line:

"The infected cry out in the night..."

Chorus:

"I got ebola down in Aaaafrica!"

And lots of other stuff that I can't remember any more. Something about breaking quarantine to get soup.

Funnier in the moment.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 20 2014,17:25

"It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you. It's nothing that a hundred CCs of antibodies could ever do."

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 20 2014,17:29

"Gonna break quarantine to go down and get some sooo-o-o-ooooooo-o-o-ooooooup."

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 20 2014,17:49

"I dodged the docs down in Africa..."

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 20 2014,18:57

"I got that strain down in Africa..."

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 23 2014,18:22

Yes New York, it's really us.... Barnaby and Ebolius.

< http://www.theguardian.com/world....ospital >

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 23 2014,18:27

QUOTE

“It is our understanding very few people were in direct contact with him,” de Blasio told a news conference before the diagnosis was confirmed.

Like qualified medical screeners?

Posted by Vince on Oct. 24 2014,06:36

I'll be curious to see how they react now that it's happening among the "real people" in NY rather than those stupid rednecks in Texas.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 30 2014,10:18

< Jim Carrey on Letterman >.