Topic: arizona has trouble killing people
started by: Malcolm
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2014,09:49
< Two fucking hours >.QUOTE
"States have been scrambling over the past many months to find new sources of drugs. They have been experimenting," said Megan McCracken, of the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law's Death Penalty Clinic. "These procedures are unreliable and the consequences are horrific."
Thank fucking Christ the Grim Reaper isn't as incompetent as the government, or < this > might happen.
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Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne's office said Joseph Rudolph Wood was pronounced dead at 3:49 p.m., one hour and 57 minutes after the execution started.
...
Attorney general's spokeswoman Stephanie Grisham, who witnessed the execution, said Wood "went to sleep, and looked to be snoring."
"This was my first execution, and I was surprised by how peaceful it was," Grisham said in an email. "There was absolutely no snorting or gasping for air."
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An Associated Press reporter who witnessed the execution saw Wood start gasping shortly after a sedative and a pain killer were injected into his veins. He gasped more than 600 times over the next hour and 40 minutes.
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Attorney general's spokeswoman Stephanie Grisham, who witnessed the execution, said Wood "went to sleep, and looked to be snoring."
"This was my first execution, and I was surprised by how peaceful it was," Grisham said in an email. "There was absolutely no snorting or gasping for air."
...
An Associated Press reporter who witnessed the execution saw Wood start gasping shortly after a sedative and a pain killer were injected into his veins. He gasped more than 600 times over the next hour and 40 minutes.
Were they watching the same incident?
Posted by Vince on Jul. 24 2014,10:11
I'm starting to think we might need to go back to hanging. There were times when an overweight person had their head pop off, but that was more cruel to those watching than to the actual victim, I'd imagine.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2014,10:18
(Vince @ Jul. 24 2014,12:11)
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I'm starting to think we might need to go back to hanging. There were times when an overweight person had their head pop off, but that was more cruel to those watching than to the actual victim, I'd imagine.
Fuck hanging, fuck lethal injection, fuck the gas chamber. Bullets, motherfuckers.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 24 2014,10:43
I'm okay with that. Bloomberg will sic his angry moms on you though.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2014,10:45
(Vince @ Jul. 24 2014,12:43)
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I'm okay with that. Bloomberg will sic his angry moms on you though.
In terms of efficiency, effectiveness, speed, reliability, etc., I defy anyone to come up with something better than bullets. Computer controlled accuracy. Will not miss.
Posted by Troy on Jul. 24 2014,12:35
(Malcolm @ Jul. 24 2014,10:45)
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(Vince @ Jul. 24 2014,12:43)
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I'm okay with that. Bloomberg will sic his angry moms on you though.
In terms of efficiency, effectiveness, speed, reliability, etc., I defy anyone to come up with something better than bullets. Computer controlled accuracy. Will not miss.
I like that (probable) myth about the Chinese doing it and mailing a bill for the bullet to the family.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 24 2014,13:06
I'm actually not ok with the bullet. Yeah, it's cheap and effective, but our executions should be more civilized despite the crimes of the men and women we put down.
It's too messy.
Anyone remember how Payne Stewart died? His plane suffered a crack at high altitude and they everyone on board simply fell asleep until they died from the lack of oxygen. You're telling me we can't simulate that same experience to execute prisoners here?
Create a "suite" in death row. Inside have a king size bed with Egyptian sheets, nice furniture, a big screen TV, a movie collection, cable, a gaming console, etc. (No internet access though.) Tell them they get to stay there for their final days. The catch is that the room is a chamber where we can simulate the effects of that plane losing oxygen at altitude.
Kill them at any point you want. Comfortably. Without them suffering or having pain. No drugs needed. Witnesses can watch via closed circuit.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 24 2014,14:29
(Leisher @ Jul. 24 2014,15:06)
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I'm actually not ok with the bullet.
Yeah, it's cheap and effective, but our executions should be more civilized despite the crimes of the men and women we put down.
Yeah, it's cheap and effective, but our executions should be more civilized despite the crimes of the men and women we put down.
I remember my grandmother talking about walking to school as a little girl and walking past the courthouse with hanged criminals still being strung up out front. They'd leave them there overnight as a deterrent to others.
Probably not a real deterrent for hard core criminals (or those predisposed to becoming such), but I suspect it made quite an impact on those in between law abiding and sociopath or otherwise damaged individual.
I'm for doing it in a human way, but I think they should see it coming and know it's about to happen and there's nothing they can do to stop it. That's what most of their victims faced.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2014,14:40
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I remember my grandmother talking about walking to school as a little girl and walking past the courthouse with hanged criminals still being strung up out front. They'd leave them there overnight as a deterrent to others.
More than a bit fucked up. That'd make me mistrust and despise my government more than anything else.
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...but I suspect it made quite an impact on those in between law abiding and sociopath or otherwise damaged individual.
Yeah, that impact is, "If you're going to go something big, destructive, and illegal, remember to kill yourself at the end."
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I think they should see it coming and know it's about to happen and there's nothing they can do to stop it. That's what most of their victims faced.
I'm not overly concerned with how they exit the world, provided the state isn't being a complete bitch about it.
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You're telling me we can't simulate that same experience to execute prisoners here?
Bullets are cheaper. And no, not reliably given the fucktards employed by the US penal system.
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Yeah, it's cheap and effective, but our executions should be more civilized despite the crimes of the men and women we put down.
It's too messy.
It's too messy.
Fuck civility and fuck messy. You're ending someone's life, arguably the biggest possible "FUCK YOU" you can do to someone, and you're concerned with cleaning up after and being polite about it? Put aside whatever delicate sensibilities you've got about dignified death. The officials in Arizona were being dicks by virtue of their incompetence.
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Create a "suite" in death row. Inside have a king size bed with Egyptian sheets, nice furniture, a big screen TV, a movie collection, cable, a gaming console, etc. (No internet access though.) Tell them they get to stay there for their final days.
I'll take a bullet to the skull over this any day of the week.
Posted by TPRJones on Jul. 24 2014,14:48
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You're ending someone's life, arguably the biggest possible "FUCK YOU" you can do to someone...
Am I the only person that sees life in prison without chance of parole as a much bigger punishment than death? I mean, with death it's over and done with before too long. Life in prison without parole is a lifetime of despair and torture, much more drawn out and much more punishing. IMO.
Just wondering if I'm alone on that one.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2014,14:50
(TPRJones @ Jul. 24 2014,16:48)
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You're ending someone's life, arguably the biggest possible "FUCK YOU" you can do to someone...
Am I the only person that sees life in prison without chance of parole as a much bigger punishment than death? I mean, with death it's over and done with before too long. Life in prison without parole is a lifetime of despair and torture, much more drawn out and much more punishing. IMO.
Just wondering if I'm alone on that one.
Given the world's most perfect prison and the willingness of the legal system to lock up the most deserving motherfuckers and throw away the key, maybe. Life imprisonment gets less preferable to death the closer your environment gets towards your personal idea of hell.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 25 2014,06:59
(TPRJones @ Jul. 24 2014,16:48)
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Am I the only person that sees life in prison without chance of parole as a much bigger punishment than death? I mean, with death it's over and done with before too long. Life in prison without parole is a lifetime of despair and torture, much more drawn out and much more punishing. IMO.
Just wondering if I'm alone on that one.
Just wondering if I'm alone on that one.
I would be okay with that if prisons were more like prisons. No cable TV, gym spas, etc. Also if "life without the possibility of parole" actually meant that (barring an overturned conviction). Under those conditions, I'd find prison preferable.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 25 2014,07:48
(Vince @ Jul. 25 2014,09:59)
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(TPRJones @ Jul. 24 2014,16:48)
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Am I the only person that sees life in prison without chance of parole as a much bigger punishment than death? I mean, with death it's over and done with before too long. Life in prison without parole is a lifetime of despair and torture, much more drawn out and much more punishing. IMO.
Just wondering if I'm alone on that one.
Just wondering if I'm alone on that one.
I would be okay with that if prisons were more like prisons. No cable TV, gym spas, etc. Also if "life without the possibility of parole" actually meant that (barring an overturned conviction). Under those conditions, I'd find prison preferable.
While I agree with you TPR, Vince is also correct. Prisons are no longer about punishment or reform, and are merely a halfway house to store criminals until their sentence is up.
Foreign prisons are prisons. Our prisons are places people go to get free food, healthcare, education, and a workout program.
Death row inmates should have a miserable existence. They should be fed, given one hour of yard time a day (but only with other death row inmates), access to a library, and I'd allow them access to FOX or CNN.
There is far too much freedom in our prison system.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 25 2014,09:15
Leisher has become... like DTMan's Gandhi or something."While I agree with you, so-and-so is also right."
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 25 2014,09:52
Execution should be messy and fucked up and in no way sanitary, and the man who passes the sentence should be the one swinging the sword. It is a sentence of the same act that probably got them there to begin with, but for some reason a thing that is immoral for an individual to do is just fine for a government to do. Plus, the government has a poot record of murdering the correct person to begin with.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 25 2014,09:59
(Vince @ Jul. 25 2014,12:15)
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Leisher has become... like DTMan's Gandhi or something.
"While I agree with you, so-and-so is also right."
"While I agree with you, so-and-so is also right."
One of the biggest problems plaguing the human race right now is that we've lost the ability to compromise or see the similarities within our arguments and find common ground there.
Everyone wants to make everything black and white. Shit is rarely ever black and white.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 25 2014,10:17
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...but for some reason a thing that is immoral for an individual to do is just fine for a government to do.
Hey, you can't expect the government to be held responsible for anything. It's someone else's fault.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 25 2014,10:17
I agree with you Leisher. Just giving you shit :-)
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 25 2014,10:19
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Everyone wants to make everything black and white. Shit is rarely ever black and white.
You're obviously not viewing reality through the correct screen.
Posted by TPRJones on Jul. 28 2014,10:22
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Foreign prisons are prisons. Our prisons are places people go to get free food, healthcare, education, and a workout program.
If by "workout program" you mean "dick in the ass", then I guess I can see your point.
As far as I know only the very rich that get prison time go to this place you are describing. I thought the rest were overcrowded and shoved in two to a bed and that the rate of prison rape was way up. It doesn't sound at all pleasant to me.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 28 2014,10:26
I really have no idea what prison is really like.And I plan/hope to keep it that way.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 28 2014,10:48
State joints are always worse than federal in terms of shit the other inmates can probably do to you and get away with.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 28 2014,11:08
Prisons aren't fun places, but what makes them most undesirable isn't the prison itself, but rather the other prisoners.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 28 2014,11:15
(Vince @ Jul. 28 2014,13:08)
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Prisons aren't fun places, but what makes them most undesirable isn't the prison itself, but rather the other prisoners.
Except for the dudes who are kings among inmates.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 28 2014,13:29
I don't understand what you're saying.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 28 2014,13:33
(Vince @ Jul. 28 2014,15:29)
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I don't understand what you're saying.
There are prisoners who live very cushy lives in jail. Anyone with proper mafia or gang connections, for instance.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 28 2014,15:14
Oh. Yeah, I don't disagree with that.