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Forum: Internet Links Topic: Salon wants the government to sieze amazon and goo started by: GORDON Posted by GORDON on Jul. 09 2014,13:49
gle.Because They Didn't Build That. < http://www.salon.com/2014....ig_tech > Posted by Vince on Jul. 09 2014,14:17
One big piece they miss is that TCP/IP was developed by Xerox because the "publicly funded" network protocol sucked beyond belief and Xerox was hot and heavy to get something moving and got tired of waiting on the government and their promised Obamacare of networking protocols.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 09 2014,17:02
QUOTE DARPA then contracted with BBN Technologies, Stanford University, and the University College London to develop operational versions of the protocol on different hardware platforms. Four versions were developed: TCP v1, TCP v2, TCP v3 and IP v3, and TCP/IP v4. The last protocol is still in use today. Where's Xerox in this mix? QUOTE IBM, AT&T and DEC were the first major corporations to adopt TCP/IP, despite having competing internal protocols Not even beta testers. Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 09 2014,17:28
QUOTE Xerox Network Services (XNS) is a protocol suite developed by Xerox within the Xerox Network Systems Architecture. It provided general purpose network communications, internetwork routing and packet delivery, including higher level functions such as a reliable stream, and remote procedure calls. XNS predated and influenced the development of the Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) networking model. XNS was developed by the Xerox Systems Development Department (later known as the Xerox Office Systems Division) in the early 1980s, based heavily on Xerox Parc's earlier (and extremely influential) PARC Universal Packet (PUP) protocol suite done there in the late 1970s; some of the protocols in the XNS suite were lightly modified versions of the ones in the PUP suite. XNS was intended to be a commercial descendant of the research/development oriented PUP. The protocol suite specifications were placed in the public domain. Being in the public domain, XNS became a canonical local area networking protocol in the 1980s, copied to various degrees by practically all networking systems in use into the 1990s. It had little impact on TCP/IP, however, which was designed earlier. During the 1980s XNS was used by 3Com and, with modifications, by a number of other commercial systems which became more common than XNS itself, including Ungermann-Bass Net/One, Novell NetWare, and Banyan VINES. Sounds like Vince was thinking of this Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 09 2014,17:51
Yeah. There were many internal/local protocols. That was one. I've generally heard Standford credited for TCP/IP.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 09 2014,18:07
Let's check these arguments, one by one:QUOTE Big Tech was created with publicly developed technology. While Google might owe its fortunes to the internet and world wide web, I'm pretty sure they've developed a fuckload of technology that's killed problems the public didn't do shit for. Read up on Google's implementation of terabyte scale DB tables. "The public commons" didn't dent that fucker. Toss in all the webcrawling and search R&D they've done. QUOTE Big Tech’s services have become a necessity in modern society. Sweet. Where's my ironclad guarantee for all my necessities? Even if I had one, I'll take private corporations over public/governmental entities. Why? The author makes my point later on. QUOTE They’re at or near monopoly status – and moving fast. That's a problem, not something we're trying to build a solution around. Although that'd be hilarious if there was a law that said, "Once you hit X% of the market share, you're nationalized." QUOTE They abuse their power. Yeah. Gov't never does that. QUOTE They got there with our help. The argument ... "Contrary to popular misconception, Big Tech corporations aren’t solely the products of ingenuity and grit. Each has received, and continues to receive, a lot of government largess." ... just holy shit. Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Google, Sun. All around today chiefly due to government subsidies. QUOTE The real “commodity” is us. Until consumers learn to surf the web without being perma-logged in to Gmail. QUOTE Our privacy is dying … or already dead. Yep, let's give up. Making this a public utility fixes it how? QUOTE Freedom of information is at risk. Yep, that's why I'd like to keep it away from the government. Corporations are slightly more up front about being in it for the money. Politicians morally grandstand. QUOTE The free market could become even less free. Maybe we ought to work on introducing some real goddamn fucking competition. If MS could keep from shooting itself in the foot, leg, torso, and head in the search game, Google might have some. QUOTE They could hijack the future. The fact that "could" is in here means this isn't a convincing argument. Posted by Vince on Jul. 10 2014,03:26
(Malcolm @ Jul. 09 2014,19:02) QUOTE QUOTE DARPA then contracted with BBN Technologies, Stanford University, and the University College London to develop operational versions of the protocol on different hardware platforms. Four versions were developed: TCP v1, TCP v2, TCP v3 and IP v3, and TCP/IP v4. The last protocol is still in use today. Where's Xerox in this mix? Interesting. The more you look into the origins of TCP/IP and the internet, the more origin stories you find. From < here: > QUOTE Theory Five - Ethernet and Xerox Palo Alto
And then we come to the theory advanced by the person who headed the Arpanet project itself, Bob Taylor. Quoting Bob, "I believe the first internet was created at Xerox PARC, circa '75, when we connected, via PUP, the Ethernet with the ARPAnet. PUP (PARC Universal Protocol) was instrumental later in defining TCP. For the internet to grow, it also needed a networked personal computer, a graphical user interface with WYSIWYG properties, modern word processing, and desktop publishing. These, along with the Ethernet, all came out of my lab at Xerox PARC in the '70s, and were commercialized over the next 20 years by Adobe, Apple, Cisco, Microsoft, Novell, Sun and other companies that were necessary to the development of the Internet." John Shoch, who worked with Robert Metcalfe on the Ethernet developments at Xerox Parc, and who is at great pains to stay out of debates about who started the Internet, has concluded that PUP (the Parc Universal Protocol) was the first complete, operational set of Internet protocols. Schoch was also involved in the development of TCP/IP at a later date. To quote Shoch, "Starting around 1974, Xerox PARC designed and deployed an internet architecture called PUP; it was up and running on multiple machines and networks when TCP was just a design for byte stream protocols. Input from Xerox' operational experience helped convince the TCP working group to add the IP packet layer!" Findings on Xerox Parc origins theory This might in fact provide another answer for us - the first Internet connection may not have involved TCP/IP or government funding at all, and may be solely the result of commercial research. Posted by Vince on Jul. 10 2014,03:28
(TheCatt @ Jul. 09 2014,19:28) QUOTE QUOTE Xerox Network Services (XNS) is a protocol suite developed by Xerox within the Xerox Network Systems Architecture. It provided general purpose network communications, internetwork routing and packet delivery, including higher level functions such as a reliable stream, and remote procedure calls. XNS predated and influenced the development of the Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) networking model. XNS was developed by the Xerox Systems Development Department (later known as the Xerox Office Systems Division) in the early 1980s, based heavily on Xerox Parc's earlier (and extremely influential) PARC Universal Packet (PUP) protocol suite done there in the late 1970s; some of the protocols in the XNS suite were lightly modified versions of the ones in the PUP suite. XNS was intended to be a commercial descendant of the research/development oriented PUP. The protocol suite specifications were placed in the public domain. Being in the public domain, XNS became a canonical local area networking protocol in the 1980s, copied to various degrees by practically all networking systems in use into the 1990s. It had little impact on TCP/IP, however, which was designed earlier. During the 1980s XNS was used by 3Com and, with modifications, by a number of other commercial systems which became more common than XNS itself, including Ungermann-Bass Net/One, Novell NetWare, and Banyan VINES. Sounds like Vince was thinking of this Yes. Thanks. I knew they were in there for something. |