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Forum: Internet Links Topic: Kids with active fathers are better started by: GORDON Posted by GORDON on May 10 2014,11:36
Had to shorten the thread title, but it applies. TFA is about how kids with fathers who play an active role in their lives are much more likely to graduate college.< http://www.news.com.au/lifesty....6755837 > I like stories that confirm my biases. QUOTE Many feminists have been on a crusade to get fathers to behave more like mothers, yet it seems dads actually do some vital work by counterbalancing the helicopter parenting (read: helicopter mothering) that seems to dominate American middle-class homes these days.
Posted by TPRJones on May 12 2014,09:02
While I don't disagree at all with their conclusions on the nature of fatherhood, I must say that "graduated college" is an extremely useless measure if you are trying to measure success at life these days.How many of those college grads are living back in mom and dad's basement at some point after graduation? I bet it's a big percentage. That's hardly what I call successful. Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2014,09:14
(TPRJones @ May 12 2014,11:02) QUOTE While I don't disagree at all with their conclusions on the nature of fatherhood, I must say that "graduated college" is an extremely useless measure if you are trying to measure success at life these days. How many of those college grads are living back in mom and dad's basement at some point after graduation? I bet it's a big percentage. That's hardly what I call successful. Think of how nice that psychology degrees looks hanging over the couch down there, though. Sure, it might take you a couple months of saving from the barista job you landed to get it framed, but don't you feel better knowing a four-year degree has secured your future? And with only a measly $10-20K price tag. Such a bargain. Posted by TheCatt on May 12 2014,09:34
(TPRJones @ May 12 2014,12:02) QUOTE While I don't disagree at all with their conclusions on the nature of fatherhood, I must say that "graduated college" is an extremely useless measure if you are trying to measure success at life these days. How many of those college grads are living back in mom and dad's basement at some point after graduation? I bet it's a big percentage. That's hardly what I call successful. In aggregate, < it's seems to be a pretty useful indicator. > Posted by TPRJones on May 12 2014,09:37
Meh, even according to that article it's not really a measure of success as much as a measure of a lower average level of failure.QUOTE “There’s a reason we call this report ‘The Rising Cost of Not Going to College,'” says Paul Taylor, executive vice president of special projects at the Pew Research Center.
“The driver of that widening is not so much that today’s college graduates are doing better than yesterday’s college graduates are doing; it’s that today’s high school-only graduates are doing worse than yesterday’s high school-only graduates" Posted by TheCatt on May 12 2014,09:42
(TPRJones @ May 12 2014,12:37) QUOTE Meh, even according to that article it's not really a measure of success as much as a measure of a lower average level of failure. QUOTE “There’s a reason we call this report ‘The Rising Cost of Not Going to College,'” says Paul Taylor, executive vice president of special projects at the Pew Research Center. “The driver of that widening is not so much that today’s college graduates are doing better than yesterday’s college graduates are doing; it’s that today’s high school-only graduates are doing worse than yesterday’s high school-only graduates" At this point you're just making up words and using apocryphal data. If success isn't avoiding failure, then what is it? Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2014,10:14
(TheCatt @ May 12 2014,11:42) QUOTE If success isn't avoiding failure, then what is it? Not failure != success in the same way not negative != positive. Posted by TPRJones on May 12 2014,10:14
QUOTE If success isn't avoiding failure, then what is it? That's some low standards right there. How about measuring average income or level of happiness or other such things? The assumption that "college grad = success" is just silly. By that definition all < these poeple > end up in the fail column. Not to mention most welders, plumbers, and auto mechanics. Posted by Leisher on May 12 2014,10:31
The attitude towards college in this country is horseshit. We've made ourselves slaves to these institutions of "higher learning".
Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2014,10:40
QUOTE We've made ourselves slaves to these institutions of "higher learning". That the biz world continues to support. Posted by GORDON on May 12 2014,10:43
(Malcolm @ May 12 2014,13:40) QUOTE QUOTE We've made ourselves slaves to these institutions of "higher learning". That the biz world continues to support. To make themselves feel better. A significant portion of billionaires lately never finished college, did they? Posted by TheCatt on May 12 2014,11:02
Yay anecdotes!
Posted by Leisher on May 12 2014,11:05
I remember years ago Fortune 500 polled the CEOs of those corporations, and in a landslide the CEOs cherished military service over college. Why? Actual experience over theory. HR people are the reason college is so coveted in corporations. They're part of the problem. I remember hiring my IT Support Specialist and working with our HR person. She was adamant that a college degree was the main criteria for candidates. I had to sit her down and explain to her about how certifications make the IT world turn (for the most part). I was reminded of that story again recently during a company function when the president was talking about the key folks who got our company to where it is today, and almost to a man, none had been to college until later in their careers. Posted by GORDON on May 12 2014,11:05
And the plural of anecdote is data?
Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2014,11:08
QUOTE I had to sit her down and explain to her about how certifications make the IT world turn (for the most part). I'm certified in jackshit. My degrees are considered perma-certs for the most part. The degrees, in turn, are not a measure of knowledge or creativity, but how much debt I'm not afraid to rack up and how much bullshit I can put up with while paying. Oldest nephew is going to college next semester. I told my brother not to send him my way for advice. Posted by GORDON on May 12 2014,11:13
Don't get me wrong, I think that certain jobs DO require a shitload of training, and a degree is the way you show you received that training.My bias comes from the fact that I agree with Leisher 100% that HR people are a big part of the problem, and the fact that I have had 2 managers in the IT industry whose degrees were in mining technology, and the other in animal husbandry. Somehow this made them qualified for management positions where my years of experience did not. And no, I am not bitter, I don't even give a shit at all, but I have seen and learned enough to know that for most people a college degree isn't indicative of shit. And dont even get me started on those with liberal arts degrees. Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2014,11:26
QUOTE I think that certain jobs DO require a shitload of training, and a degree is the way you show you received that training. Some jobs do, and degrees are a way. Posted by GORDON on May 12 2014,11:29
(Malcolm @ May 12 2014,14:26) QUOTE QUOTE I think that certain jobs DO require a shitload of training, and a degree is the way you show you received that training. Some jobs do, and degrees are a way. Absolutely. Posted by Malcolm on May 12 2014,11:38
(GORDON @ May 12 2014,13:29) QUOTE (Malcolm @ May 12 2014,14:26) QUOTE QUOTE I think that certain jobs DO require a shitload of training, and a degree is the way you show you received that training. Some jobs do, and degrees are a way. Absolutely. I'd argue that most jobs don't, and degrees are far from the best way. Posted by GORDON on May 12 2014,11:42
(Malcolm @ May 12 2014,14:38) QUOTE (GORDON @ May 12 2014,13:29) QUOTE (Malcolm @ May 12 2014,14:26) QUOTE QUOTE I think that certain jobs DO require a shitload of training, and a degree is the way you show you received that training. Some jobs do, and degrees are a way. Absolutely. I'd argue that most jobs don't, and degrees are far from the best way. Mostly agree. I want my doctors to have attended a shitload of school, though, as they say, "You know what they call the guy who graduated last in his class in medical school?" Engineers should have a lot of schooling. Biologists. Chemists. Basically, any job that you can't do with just a liberal arts degree. But even those jobs... I don't really know why a botanist needs to have 24 credit hours in the humanities in order to be a botanist. Posted by Leisher on May 12 2014,11:51
QUOTE I want my doctors to have attended a shitload of school, though, as they say, "You know what they call the guy who graduated last in his class in medical school?" Engineers should have a lot of schooling. Biologists. Chemists. Basically, any job that you can't do with just a liberal arts degree. But even those jobs... I don't really know why a botanist needs to have 24 credit hours in the humanities in order to be a botanist. Throw teachers in there too, and then pay them more. The vast majority of jobs in any company don't need a college degree to be done successfully. Posted by GORDON on May 12 2014,11:52
(Leisher @ May 12 2014,14:51) QUOTE QUOTE I want my doctors to have attended a shitload of school, though, as they say, "You know what they call the guy who graduated last in his class in medical school?" Engineers should have a lot of schooling. Biologists. Chemists. Basically, any job that you can't do with just a liberal arts degree. But even those jobs... I don't really know why a botanist needs to have 24 credit hours in the humanities in order to be a botanist. Throw teachers in there too, and then pay them more. Know what? I almost mentioned teachers... but the teachers in my local school are just teaching what the state of Ohio tells them to teach, so i don't even know why they need a degree, any more. Any person who is good at communicating with kids can do this job. Posted by Leisher on May 12 2014,12:02
QUOTE Know what? I almost mentioned teachers... but the teachers in my local school are just teaching what the state of Ohio tells them to teach, so i don't even know why they need a degree, any more. Any person who is good at communicating with kids can do this job. The government's attempts to absolutely destroy our education system shouldn't be a reflection on the teachers themselves. Topic for a different thread though. |