Thunderdome 2015 » Printable Version of Topic » HBO still stuck in 20th century

Forum: Internet Links
Topic: HBO still stuck in 20th century
started by: Malcolm

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2014,11:34

< Don't use HBOGO says HBO >.

QUOTE

Tonight's @GameofThrones could take up to an hour to arrive. Can't miss a moment? Please plan to watch it live on @HBO at 9, or DVR it.

You suck ass. This is why people pirate your content. Jump into the goddamned modern age, shitheads.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 14 2014,12:35

I site this as an example of you complaining just to complain about something. Everyone knows that the vast majority of people that use HBOGo don't even have subscriptions to HBO. I would bet that of the people that use HBOGo, password borrowers outnumber actual subscribers by at least 3 to 1. I pay for HBO and have had no problem watching Game of Thrones. If Go doesn't work for me, I pull it up 'on demand'. Because I paid for it. I don't fault HBO for not keeping up with the demand of all the freeloaders. And if people who actually subscribed to HBO are upset because they couldn't stream it, well, stop giving out your damn passwords idiots. DVR the shit and you are all set.

People pirate their content because they are too cheap to pay for it. Not for any other reason.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 14 2014,12:44

I really have no problem with content being an hour late to the web or what-not. Why would you watch this crap on a web-device anyway? You need to watch it on a big screen. And if you can't watch it on a TV via regular HBO, you're probably stealing the Go service anyway.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 14 2014,14:09

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 14 2014,15:35)

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People pirate their content because they are too cheap to pay for it. Not for any other reason.

Untrue.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2014,14:45

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You need to watch it on a big screen.

You lucky bastard. HBOGO just updated their website.

QUOTE

Get unlimited access to all your favorite HBO® shows, hit movies, sports, comedy and more, plus bonus features and behind-the-scenes extras. It’s all free with your HBO subscription through participating television providers and available on your favorite devices.*

Subject to approval by thecatt

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 14 2014,14:48

(GORDON @ Apr. 14 2014,16:09)

QUOTE

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 14 2014,15:35)

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People pirate their content because they are too cheap to pay for it. Not for any other reason.

Untrue.

Agreed. It seems the most common reason is convenience, with money being a secondary reason and various principled causes a very distant third.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 14 2014,14:55

(TPRJones @ Apr. 14 2014,17:48)

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(GORDON @ Apr. 14 2014,16:09)

QUOTE

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 14 2014,15:35)

QUOTE

People pirate their content because they are too cheap to pay for it. Not for any other reason.

Untrue.

Agreed. It seems the most common reason is convenience, with money being a secondary reason and various principled causes a very distant third.

Convenience? Yeah, it's really convenient to not pay for content.

DVR, VCRs, HBOGO, etc. and the fact that the network airs their shit over and over on multiple streams says "convenience being the primary factor for piracy" is bullshit. (And I'm limiting this argument to HBO, not all piracy.)

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2014,14:59

< Convenience > that is impossible to get without piracy at the moment.

QUOTE

Popcorn Time is how consumers want to consume media. Click a button and the video plays. Netflix, Amazon and others are attempting to bring this sort of experience to the masses, and their growth numbers show consumers are latching on. Yet Hollywood is slow to embrace the future by keeping its best content away from these legit streaming services.

It will be months if not years for Netflix and Amazon Instant to gain access to most of the content currently available for streaming on Popcorn Time. And that’s why programs, services and the entire pirating industry is thriving.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 14 2014,15:04

I don't do cable. I'd be happy to pay for access to HBOGO if I could then watch it on my XBMC-driven media center.

I refuse to deal with their DRM bullshit, however, or sign up for an entire cable service package just for HBO. Am I willing to pay $120 a month just to watch Game of Thrones? No, but I'd be willing to pay something closer to $10 to $20. But that doesn't seem to be an option.

Most of the pirates I know personally are the older ones like me who can and would pay if the content were to be delivered in the way WE want it when and where we want it. But you have to take it how HBO will give it to you, and they aren't exactly flexible. So in my case it is MUCH more convenient to steal it. Tell me what address to set up an automatic monthly payment to cover that and I will.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2014,15:04

Also, my awesome Comcast DVR randomly decides to delete some of my saved recordings and not record things I explicitly schedule whenever they feel like it. I'm sure one of their competitors has better DVR technology. I'll find out when the FCC allows one to exist.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 14 2014,16:09

It's funny, I actually pay a lot more each month for free content (through < Subbable > and < Patreon >) than I do for commercial content.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 14 2014,16:10

(Leisher @ Apr. 14 2014,17:55)

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(TPRJones @ Apr. 14 2014,17:48)

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(GORDON @ Apr. 14 2014,16:09)

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(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 14 2014,15:35)

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People pirate their content because they are too cheap to pay for it. Not for any other reason.

Untrue.

Agreed. It seems the most common reason is convenience, with money being a secondary reason and various principled causes a very distant third.

I AM going to purchase GoT season 4 on BD, as soon as it becomes available to me. I will pay approximately $45 for it, which works out to about $4 per episode. I find that to be slightly expensive, but this show is worth it so I will pay it.

However, I don't like being spoilered, and I like participating in the post-show discussions on the internet. I can't wait 6+ months for the BDs to be released in order to do that. I am not going to pay the $45ish for 3 months of HBO to watch the series, because then I am basically double-paying for the same content. I have no other avenue with which to watch the shows in a timely manner, legally, for the $45 total I want to pay. I have already paid $135 for the first 3 seasons, season 4 takes me up to almost $200, future seasons will add to that, etc etc. I am paying enough to watch the shows. I cannot watch it both timely and legally in this way, even though I will be paying for it.

So, I will continue to "acquire" the shows the day after they are aired so I will reduce the amount of spoilers to wh9ich I am exposed to as much as I can, and then I will purchase the blurays when they are released which assuages any guilt I may feel, and I will also purchase the seasons as gifts for friends.

Optimally, HBO would let me purchase the blu rays 6 months in advance as soon as the season starts, for $50 or so, and then allow me to stream the episodes as they air, and then send me the BD set as soon as it is released. Everyone makes money and customers are happy.

But nope. As the original post stated, HBO is firmly entrenched in 20th century marketing plans. That worked well for Blockbuster, after all. It may be "their show/their rules," but I don't need to follow their rules, and HBO is losing money, for no good reason, because of it.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 14 2014,16:48

(GORDON @ Apr. 14 2014,18:10)

QUOTE

Optimally, HBO would let me purchase the blu rays 6 months in advance as soon as the season starts, for $50 or so, and then allow me to stream the episodes as they air, and then send me the BD set as soon as it is released. Everyone makes money and customers are happy.

I could see Amazon offering something like this if they can get the rights. They currently throw and CDs you by up on their cloud player for you to access via the web. I'd go for that as well. Offer streaming only for cheaper. I'd like that as well.

Plus it would allow HBO to get their money up front before the season has finished airing yet. That sounds like a win for everyone.

But on the pirating question, I think more people do it because they're cheap. Not all, but the majority.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 14 2014,16:54

I agree. But the statement I was refuting was, "People pirate their content because they are too cheap to pay for it. Not for any other reason." That didn't leave any wiggle room, that was an absolute statement. I was refuting it. I am not too cheap to pay for it, but I am too frugal to overpay for it. I aint paying $90 to watch it now AND get the disks. I will get both for $45 instead of giving them $15 for streaming and $45 for the disks, which they wont let me do. I bet lots of peeps would do that if they could.

With some releases, Walmart allows you to preorder a movie a few weeks before it is released, and watch it immediately on Vudu (again, before the physical disks are released), then they will ship you the disk in a couple months when they get around to it. The rest of the world is moving on, and HBO is holding on to the 90's.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 14 2014,17:32

(GORDON @ Apr. 14 2014,17:09)

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(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 14 2014,15:35)

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People pirate their content because they are too cheap to pay for it. Not for any other reason.

Untrue.

Wait, yeah, I didn't read that either.

Soooo untrue.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2014,18:06

QUOTE

Plus it would allow HBO to get their money up front before the season has finished airing yet. That sounds like a win for everyone.

HBO has proven they will hold on to their exclusive content rights like grim death.

If I had shit like Popcorn Time coupled with a Netflix queue, I would pay a substantial amount for that. Content providers should be knocking down the door of every digital streaming service shoving their content out to the public. Maybe they can be tempted to pay for guaranteed access to HD viewing whenever the fuck they want so they don't pirate it. I don't and will not be forced to subscribe to HBOGO, Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, Amazon, and a dozen other streaming services to keep up to date on all the things I want. I'm annoyed enough Netflix can't stream the same things they physically ship on DVDs. That alone is beyond bullshit. I wonder which end is holding up stream/ship equality, Netflix or the content providers? I'm thinking not Netflix. Woohoo scratched DVDs.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 14 2014,18:10

Right, I want one damned service to rule them all.

Til then, fuck em.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2014,18:13

(TheCatt @ Apr. 14 2014,20:10)

QUOTE

Right, I want one damned service to rule them all.

Til then, fuck em.

One up. I want several services to choose from, so the streaming industry doesn't get Time Warner'd, and I want them all to have all the content. Actually, I suppose I'd settle for one provider if they had some Steam-like sales. But those would never generate any volume or cash.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 14 2014,18:27

I just want convenience. With my current setup (RSS -> utorent -> NAS folder) it's all automatic and the shows I want just appear ready to watch at will. No special software to be run or applications to install or hardware to switch to depending on which service the show is on. It's just there where I want it when I want it and I can watch it how I want it. I'd pay top dollar to any service that could legitimately give me that for all the content I am interested in. But no one can.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 14 2014,18:55

Hell, I'd even be willing to accept some adverts in the insanely stupid and intrusive way broadcast and cable TV do it now if the content was up to date and on demand.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 14 2014,19:14

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Convenience that is impossible to get without piracy at the moment.

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I refuse to deal with their DRM bullshit, however, or sign up for an entire cable service package just for HBO. Am I willing to pay $120 a month just to watch Game of Thrones? No, but I'd be willing to pay something closer to $10 to $20. But that doesn't seem to be an option.

Most of the pirates I know personally are the older ones like me who can and would pay if the content were to be delivered in the way WE want it when and where we want it. But you have to take it how HBO will give it to you, and they aren't exactly flexible. So in my case it is MUCH more convenient to steal it. Tell me what address to set up an automatic monthly payment to cover that and I will.

No. At the end of the day, it's about not paying.

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Also not a good excuse.

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Now that wins.

That's a good argument, and it doesn't fall back on the lazy "convenience" bullet point that a good PR person would tell you to avoid using.

Now I'm going to jump around slightly, please follow...

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I get that, and I'm down. However, at some point you've got to understand that eventually the people making the content have to get paid. The more money, the better the shows (in theory).

It's on the industry to figure that out. True.

However, do you truthfully believe that one service will, legally, provide an all in one stop for all our favorite shows?

As Malcolm states:

QUOTE

So I guess I just disagree with the argument of "convenience". Call it something else.

I honestly don't dislike your stance. I just don't like the unintended consequences. Gordo gets around them because he makes a purchase.

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it. Buy the products you enjoy or they won't be around for you to enjoy them.

I could start listing them all out, but you know the list.

So yeah, I don't think cheapness is the only motivation, but if you dig something a lot, throw them a bone before they're gone.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 14 2014,19:22

(Malcolm @ Apr. 14 2014,21:55)

QUOTE

Hell, I'd even be willing to accept some adverts in the insanely stupid and intrusive way broadcast and cable TV do it now if the content was up to date and on demand.

That is a major line, to me. The fact Hulu Plus gets away with a subscription fee AND commercials is what proves to me there is no god, but there may be a devil.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 14 2014,19:28

(Leisher @ Apr. 14 2014,21:14)

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No. At the end of the day, it's about not paying.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot You were all-knowing and can see into the souls of all men. Forgive me for doubting you, my Lord.

QUOTE

So I guess I just disagree with the argument of "convenience". Call it something else.

No. For me it is 100% about convenience. I don't give a shit about PR because I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm just informing you of my own motivations and those of some other people I know.

QUOTE

I get that, and I'm down. However, at some point you've got to understand that eventually the people making the content have to get paid. The more money, the better the shows (in theory).

It's on the industry to figure that out. True.

However, do you truthfully believe that one service will, legally, provide an all in one stop for all our favorite shows?

Oh, good, I'm glad by the end of your post you understand my point.

Do I think any service will do that? Yes, one day that is what will happen. The market demands it, and it is inevitable that the market will provide. Maybe later this decade if we are lucky, but probably not. And a lot of large companies are going to go out of business in the meantime.

For now I spend about $300 a month on video and audio content on average. I've paid for a lot of mp3s and videos through Amazon that I have never accessed and don't plan to because I don't want to use their bullshit download software, I just paid for it because I wanted to support the artists whose content I already enjoyed through other means. Most of that monthly budget ends up on Subbable and Patreon. If I could pay the makers of Game of Thrones without having to pay for the rest of a cable service I don't give a shit about I would. But I'm not willing to spend any of those dollars on dealing with bullshit.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 14 2014,19:39

QUOTE

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it. Buy the products you enjoy or they won't be around for you to enjoy them.

Oh, I do not disagree in the slightest. That is clearly true. But show me where I can legally buy Game of Thrones when it is fresh and new without also paying for 200 channels of ESPN and all the other shit cable companies force on you that you don't want. As I said I would gladly set up an automatic payment if I knew a reasonable portion of those dollars would end up with the makers of the program. But that can't be done.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 15 2014,08:31

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No. At the end of the day, it's about not paying.

Someone already beat me to a rebuttal.

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I forgot You were all-knowing and can see into the souls of all men. Forgive me for doubting you, my Lord.

Bull fucking shit. Every illegal download is not about avoiding payment and not everyone that does it is simply cheap. I have the means to pay, and I'm more than willing to fork out for things that are valuable to me. I bought Static X tickets this week. I got front row seats to Lewis Black next month. I got tickets to Motley Crue's (first) farewell tour. I dropped more than a bit of cash on the Wasteland art print simply because I like the game and want the current company to churn out decent ones in the future. I spent another fuckload of cash on a new desktop over the past month or two. I still pay Netflix to ship DVDs to me because I can't find certain shit anywhere else. I don't have a wife, kids, or a mortgage, I have a bit of disposable income.

QUOTE

The fact Hulu Plus gets away with a subscription fee AND commercials is what proves to me there is no god, but there may be a devil.

Proof how much people want shit on their schedule. They will pay with money and time on top of it.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 15 2014,08:40

QUOTE

But show me where I can legally buy Game of Thrones when it is fresh and new without also paying for 200 channels of ESPN and all the other shit cable companies force on you that you don't want. As I said I would gladly set up an automatic payment if I knew a reasonable portion of those dollars would end up with the makers of the program. But that can't be done.

Boom. It's not the fucking twentieth century anymore, but damned if you can tell by the way cable makes me buy shit. Thanks for making me pay for access to the Oprah Winfrey Network, Comcast. I'm pretty sure DirectTV doesn't include that bullshit in their sports package. Probably because they realized it's no longer 1983. Not my fault that the internet is killing traditional broadcast/cable TV the same way that shit killed radio.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 15 2014,12:07

QUOTE

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot You were all-knowing and can see into the souls of all men. Forgive me for doubting you, my Lord.

No. For me it is 100% about convenience. I don't give a shit about PR because I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm just informing you of my own motivations and those of some other people I know.

Oh, good, I'm glad by the end of your post you understand my point.

That's a snarky and defensive response. I didn't realize I was in the DailyKos forums suggesting that maybe Obama isn't awesome.

Granted, you probably thought I was judging you, but I'm not. I'd be a hypocrite to do so. In fact, I never said "don't do it".

However, instead of a wall of text to defend my position and yada yada yada, I simply have one question for everyone here: Are you stealing?

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 15 2014,12:16

Nope. The original owner still has their files.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 15 2014,12:28

The last episode of Game of Thrones was most pirated thing ever (as far as they know). Don't read the article because there are episode spoilers, but here's the relevant bit:

< http://www.nerdist.com/2014....e-a-lot >

QUOTE

According to The Hollywood Reporter, “at the time of the record torrent, 145,594 had a complete copy and continued to upload, while 47,824 were still downloading the file.” BitTorrent, one of the most popular torrent platforms on the web, explained that this bested their current record-holder, the previous season of Game of Thrones‘ finale, which saw 171,572 users sharing the episode online and was downloaded approximately 1.5 million people.

Serious question, though: why did everyone insist on stealing it when HBO has already openly admitted to not caring about HBO Go password sharing? (When are you going to allow people subscription options for the Go platform as a standalone, HBO? Eh?) Surely connection to an HBO Go account must be fewer degrees than it takes to get to Kevin Bacon, right?

Offhand, I honestly can't think of anyone I know who would have an HBO Go password for me to use.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 15 2014,13:01

That's a good point. We all have them. We just don't want to share it with you. :-)

And as that article suggests, HBO has publicly given the green light to password sharing.

Posted by Troy on Apr. 15 2014,13:09

You can't like, "own" an HBOGO password, man. It's for the people.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 15 2014,15:09

Is Gordon the only one here who doesn't have one? What a LOOOOOSERRRR!!!!!

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 15 2014,15:29

I get free HBO for another year plus. I'm thinking of downloading this illegally just to piss them off. If you don't care about password sharing, then make it public access.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 15 2014,17:08

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 15 2014,18:09)

QUOTE

Is Gordon the only one here who doesn't have one? What a LOOOOOSERRRR!!!!!

I can't think of anyone that I KNOW pays for HBO.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 15 2014,17:35

(Malcolm @ Apr. 15 2014,18:29)

QUOTE

I get free HBO for another year plus. I'm thinking of downloading this illegally just to piss them off. If you don't care about password sharing, then make it public access.

Sweet. Hook us up with your HBOGo pw! Oh wait, we just torrent the stuff.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 15 2014,17:47

I don't think I'd even use HBO Go.... I haven't seen an app for it on my PS3 and I only watch GoT on my 60" tv.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 15 2014,22:07

All this typing and all I'm reading is "I don't want to pay for it".

TPR: I don't want to buy cable and HBO. So I steal it.
Gordon: I pay $4 per hour of GoT, I don't want to pay any more. So I steal it.
Malcolm: HBO offers a free service to their subscribers and their friends/family. It should be fist fucking free for everyone and it's not so I'm complaining. I would steal it, but I'm already getting it for free. Fist fuckers.

You can dress it up all you want. But bottom line, you are too cheap to pay for the content, so you are stealing it (or complaining about it).

Perhaps all the other content providers in the world should shut down and all content should go to HBO, and HBO should enter the 21st century and have it instantly available to me, anytime I want it, everywhere I want. And it should be free. Until then, they are just asking to be stolen from. Until that happens, it's presented in a way I don't like. It costs more than I want to pay. It's not on my 60" tv. I'm just going to steal it.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,05:01

I disagree with your assessment of the conversation thus far.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 16 2014,07:17

QUOTE

But bottom line, you are too cheap to pay for the content, so you are stealing it (or complaining about it).

I just put up a list of half a dozen things I bought over the past few months. Not everything's a nail, hammer.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 16 2014,09:42

I'm having to side with Cake on this. We can justify the "why" of the pirating, but it's still pirating and the root cause is because NOT pirating the material in question seems like a waste of money. One man's frugal is another man's cheapskate.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,09:42

(Leisher @ Apr. 15 2014,14:07)

QUOTE

That's a snarky and defensive response. ... Granted, you probably thought I was judging you, but I'm not.

Well, when literally the very first thing you do is flat out accuse me of lying to you and being a cheap asshole, it's hard to have a reasonable discussion about motivations.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,09:44

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,00:07)

QUOTE

All this typing and all I'm reading is "I don't want to pay for it".

TPR: I don't want to buy cable and HBO. So I steal it.

Then clearly reading is not a skill you poses.

QUOTE

You can dress it up all you want. But bottom line, you are too cheap to pay for the content, so you are stealing it (or complaining about it).

You can dress it up all you want, but bottom line is you are too much of a judgmental prick to actually read what people are posting.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,09:45

Doing what you are doing with GoT could be compared to buying a car. You want to drive the 2015 Ford F150 now. You like it. It's a good truck. But, you don't want to pay full price for it. You want to pay what you would pay in 2017 after the 2015 has sat on the lot for two years. So, you take the truck now, and drive it. Enjoy all of it's features and conveniences. Then, two years from now, you return to the dealership and pay them the marked down price of a 2015 vehicle that has sat on the lot for two years. Then you have them throw in some extra features like fog lights and free maintenance on top of it.

Getting to watch and enjoy GoT right now, and participate in all the water cooler discussions comes at a premium price of paying for HBO right now. Then later, you pay a little more for the extra features and convenience of watching it when ever you want on your 60" TV. But, you are stealing the premium service of watching it right now and participating in the conversations. You are stealing. You water it down by eventually giving HBO some money. But you aren't paying full price for what you are using. You are enjoying your NEW show, but then later, paying the USED show prices and calling it even. I really wish I could do that at the car dealership. I'd save a ton of money.

Malcolm. I never said you people steal everything. I'm just saying that the stuff you have that you didn't pay for, is stolen because you were too cheap to pay for it.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 16 2014,09:46

(Malcolm @ Apr. 16 2014,09:17)

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But bottom line, you are too cheap to pay for the content, so you are stealing it (or complaining about it).

I just put up a list of half a dozen things I bought over the past few months. Not everything's a nail, hammer.

To be fair, most of the stuff you listed that you'd paid for can't be pirated. But to put you to the test... that new desktop system that you dropped the cash on... did you buy a licensed copy of the OS for that guy?

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,09:49

Stealing a file is not like stealing a car. The core component of theft is not that you now have something you didn't have before, it's that you've taken away someone else's access to the thing they owned. That is not an element of copying. Copying is not theft.

That's not to say it's morally correct or doesn't cause harm. It does cause harm and it's not a right thing to do. But it's a hell of a lot different from the crime of theft and to define it as such is disingenuous.

If we could copy a car as easily as we copy files, we'd all be driving Porches.

QUOTE

Getting to watch and enjoy GoT right now, and participate in all the water cooler discussions comes at a premium price of paying for HBO right now.

No, it involves more than that. It involves the premium price of a cable service I also don't want anything else on. It's like being forced to buy everything on the menu at the restaurant just because you want an order of fries. That's a stupid way to run a restaurant.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 16 2014,09:49

So, I pay for cable, but I don't really watch it. The kids do sometimes.

But I download shows that are on cable TV (Breaking Bad, Naked and Afraid, etc).

Is that stealing/being cheap?

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,09:52

(TPRJones @ Apr. 16 2014,12:44)

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(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,00:07)

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All this typing and all I'm reading is "I don't want to pay for it".

TPR: I don't want to buy cable and HBO. So I steal it.

Then clearly reading is not a skill you poses.

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You can dress it up all you want. But bottom line, you are too cheap to pay for the content, so you are stealing it (or complaining about it).

You can dress it up all you want, but bottom line is you are too much of a judgmental prick to actually read what people are posting.

Please highlight the parts of your post that show that you aren't stealing it because you don't want to pay for it.

QUOTE

I'd be willing to pay something closer to $10 to $20. But that doesn't seem to be an option.

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delivered in the way WE want it when and where we want it

QUOTE

it is MUCH more convenient to steal it.

You talk about some grand scheme of paying for it, but, you just can't. People want to sell their products how THEY want, at the price THEY set. And that's just not cool with you. So you steal it. I mean, what part of that isn't an accurate summary of what you said?

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,10:01

(TPRJones @ Apr. 16 2014,12:49)

QUOTE

Getting to watch and enjoy GoT right now, and participate in all the water cooler discussions comes at a premium price of paying for HBO right now.

So you just steal the fries because the restaurant is selling something in a way that you don't want to buy it. Ever go to a steak house and buy ONLY a steak? You can't. You're going to pay for a vegetable and potato as well as for the labor to cook it. You are getting the product grouped with what THEY want it grouped with and served the way THEY want it served at the price THEY want to sell it.

And no, that's not an exact comparison. It's an analogy. Much like you bringing fries into the conversation. Fries that can't be copied.

Here's another thought.
"Since it's free over here, I'm only willing to pay $X. But since I can't, I steal it."

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,10:02

You are oversimplifying and you know it. Considering that I delete it after I watch it, it would be equally valid - and just as reductionist - to say that I merely borrow it and there is no wrong being done at all.

Of course what I'm doing is wrong, but it is not theft.

But more on point, I'm not doing it because I'm too cheap. There are plenty of other reasons to do it, and I've explained in detail exactly why I do it. But you don't give a shit, you think you know it all already.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,10:12

(TheCatt @ Apr. 16 2014,12:49)

QUOTE

So, I pay for cable, but I don't really watch it. The kids do sometimes.

But I download shows that are on cable TV (Breaking Bad, Naked and Afraid, etc).

Is that stealing/being cheap?

It's stealing, but not being cheap. Assuming it's not being aired anywhere, not on DVD yet, etc. But, I guess it's always available on demand on itunes (or most shows seem to be). So, since there is a way to view it without pirating, it's stealing, and I guess you are too cheap to buy it from itunes. But then, had you DVRed it, you could have watched it whenever, so, no harm done?

This is somewhat gray, I guess.

Which all leads to another question. I DVR the program, then burn that to a DVD. Did I just pirate it? I could have left it on the DVR forever. Bought more hard drives to expand my DVR capabilities. Instead, I put it on another storage media. Hmmm. Are DVRs pirating?

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,10:16

(TPRJones @ Apr. 16 2014,13:02)

QUOTE

I have reread your posts and I honestly don't see how I'm not summarizing what you posted. HBO doesn't give it to you the way you want, when you want, and at the price you want, so you steal it. What points did I miss?

And no, you aren't stealing anything physical. You aren't stealing the DVD off the shelf. You are stealing the audio/visual etc that they created. That's in your mind now, and you didn't pay for it. How did you not just steal that from them?

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 16 2014,10:17

QUOTE

I'm just saying that the stuff you have that you didn't pay for, is stolen because you were too cheap to pay for it.

And I repeatedly have pointed out that price isn't an issue for me if I think I'm getting a decent deal on something of value. That does describes neither Comcast's nor HBO's means providing of content in this day and age. They go out of their way to make sure I watch shit how they want. They can bite me.

Scenario 1: I get to watch content however I want, on demand, available for download with a Popcorn Time-like UI. Know what happens when I get to watch shows? I buy shit like t-shirts and other bits of merchandise.

Scenario 2: Content providers decide to be a dick because they know I want to watch a particular show. They control access to new episodes like draconian overlords. I might go to the trouble of grabbing it from the world o' torrents, or I might move on to something Netflix already has in stock.

HBO is clearly voting for scenario 2 because they don't want my money. If they did, they'd let me watch what I want when I want on what I want, period. That shit is included in my cable bill and they aren't delivering on what their website says is their goal.

QUOTE

did you buy a licensed copy of the OS for that guy?

... the MSDN alliance means I don't have to, but my copy is legit, it's got a real reg key and all that bureaucratic shit.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 16 2014,10:21

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,12:12)

QUOTE

Which all leads to another question. I DVR the program, then burn that to a DVD. Did I just pirate it? I could have left it on the DVR forever. Bought more hard drives to expand my DVR capabilities. Instead, I put it on another storage media. Hmmm. Are DVRs pirating?

I know with cassettes and music the SCOTUS said as long as it's for your personal use, it's not. As long as you've paid for the original source.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,10:40

(Vince @ Apr. 16 2014,12:21)

QUOTE

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,12:12)

QUOTE

I know with cassettes and music the SCOTUS said as long as it's for your personal use, it's not. As long as you've paid for the original source.

Under copyright law you have a fundamental and unabridgeable right to convert the copyrighted material you have purchased from one form to another. Such as from an 8-track to a cassette. Or from a DVR to a DVD. As long as you don't broadcast it or distribute it for money.

Although under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act it is now illegal for you to exercise that fundamental and unabridgeable right without written consent from the copyright holders.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,10:41

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,12:16)

QUOTE

HBO doesn't give it to you the way you want, when you want, and at the price you want, so you steal it. What points did I miss?

I honestly don't know how Malcom or I can explain it any more clearly.

Note that at no point do I claim that what I'm doing is right or legal. Although I won't go so far as to agree to call it theft (that is a fundamentally wrong word for it as it is a much lesser crime in essence) I will agree that it is wrong. But I assure you that it is 100% NOT because I am unwilling to pay for HBO. I will be completely happy to set up a subscription to HBO right now if you can tell me how to do so without subscribing to an entire cable package. Because I would be happy to pay for HBO to support their making of Game of Thrones, so it's not about money. But even if I did get that opportunity to pay for it I still wouldn't use it the way it was intended. I'd be paying for it to provide that monetary support the show deserves and then acquiring the content in the much more convenient way that I am set up to receive it.

But now insert the part where you quote this post and say that clearly it's about the money and I'm cheap. Go ahead, you know you want to. Even though you are wrong.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 16 2014,10:47

(TPRJones @ Apr. 16 2014,12:40)

QUOTE

Although under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act it is now illegal for you to exercise that fundamental and unabridgeable right without written consent from the copyright holders.

Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, as long as I'm not distributing it to others (for free or for profit), the copyright holder can suck it.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,10:55

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,12:16)

QUOTE

You are stealing the audio/visual etc that they created. That's in your mind now, and you didn't pay for it. How did you not just steal that from them?

I will say it again. The fundamental evil of the crime of theft is not that you now have something you should not have access to, it is that you have deprived someone of something they used to own. When your house is robbed, you are not angry that some other person now has a TV just like yours you are angry that they have removed your TV from your possession. Copying is a fundamentally different - and lesser - crime and should not be classified as stealing. We need a new word to fit this new thing that didn't exist 40 years ago.

If you really can't see the difference between someone copying your file and someone stealing your car then I don't think we can have a rational discussion.

EDIT: I just realized I never spelled it out when I explained about how much I pay for stuff I never access at Amazon, but to make it clear I have paid for every season of the Game of Thrones released on Amazon in digital format. I'm not willing to put up with their DRM shit so I have never and probably will never access those files. But I have paid for them in order to support the makers of the show. I'd much rather just pay for HBO but as previously discussed that is not an option without getting cable which I refuse to do. None of this will matter I'm sure, but I felt it should be mentioned.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,11:27

The RIAA and MPAA have spent a lot of money on marketing calling it "theft" and convincing judges that one song copied = $500,000 in losses which makes it a jailable felony, but in reality it is just copyright violation, a misdemeanor. I think Troy is a lawyer, he can tell me if I am wrong.

Now, there is an aspect to this discussion that we have left unsaid because it is a given, but is really the crux of the argument. Cake is suggesting that a million people are clamoring for a way to legitimately stream the episodes in a timely manner but are just too cheap to pay HBO the way HBO wants to charge for it. The problem is, HBO is requiring you to pay for a whole lot of other things HBO doesn't own in order for you to watch the show, even though you have your own method to watch it.

I have mentioned HBO costs $15 a month, or something like that. I never mentioned you can't get HBO without getting basic cable which, I don't know, call it another $45 a month. HBO Go is their internet service. Now, lots and lots of people have internet service without having basic cable. There is no reason at all why they shouldn't be allowed to pay for and use HBO Go without paying for the entire basic cable package with ESPN and Oprah Winfrey Channel and Lifetime. It is like having a restaurant that will only allow you to come and pay for food if you buy a Ford SUV that will only take you to that restaurant, even though you already have a motorcycle. In this case, the restaurant is owned by Ford, just as HBO is owned by Time Warner, a major cable TV company. HBO requires you to blow their parent company (in places where TW has the cable tv monopoly, of course) in order to purchase their product.

There is way more to this conversation than "we are all just cheap and dont want to pay for it." In a world where our lawmakers were not bought and paid for, what HBO and TW are doing is < arguably against the law. >

I am not trying to say we are fighting on moral grounds, but there is no way in hell it should be allowed that in order to purchase product X you should also be forced to purchase unrelated service Y that you just do not need. Since there is a free and completely safe alternative out there, then HBO will just continued to get screwed out of millions of dollars of revenue that could, as it was stated earlier, go into making more great seasons of everyones favorite show. But nope. That is where a lot of people righteous indignation comes from... "Why won't HBO let me pay them for this product?" As it has been stated from the beginning, HBO is stuck on 90's marketing and think it will work forever.

So I watch the show in my way, and I pay for the blurays, and I sleep well at night.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,11:33

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with it. They are providing entertainment. You are getting that entertainment without paying for it. You are stealing that entertainment. Just because it's not tangible doesn't mean it's not theft. You can call it something different (a word to describe acquiring ideas without paying for them), but the principle is still the same.

And to say "I'm willing to pay for it, but not their asking price" is stupid. HBO sets the price and the terms. It's their product. You are arguing that you aren't too cheap to pay for it, because you'd give them a dollar for something they have priced at $5. In order for you to have HBO, you have to have cable. Those are their terms. That's the price. You may not think it's worth that price. That's fine. But that's what they have it priced at. You don't think it's worth all that. You don't want to have to buy cable to get HBO. So what? Those are their terms. If you don't like it, don't buy it! But to then steal it and say "I would pay less for the content so I'm not stealing it" is, well, not valid?

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,11:36

It's a good thing Time Warner doesn't buy the Visio TV company. I would hate to have to buy a new TV just to watch the show.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,11:45

Here's some potential irony for everyone.

I believe, and I could be wrong, that HBOGo is a trial run for them giving all of you THIEVES! what you want. Streaming on demand HBO without buying cable. Right now, the only way to get HBO is via cable. That's just how it was all setup. But, they know this is not the future. So, as a FREE add-on, they now give all HBO subscribers streaming access to all their content. There was no price increase. There was no announced price DEcrease that was then canceled because they added HBOGo. So, it's just free. UI tweaks are made. Platforms are added. Everything moving along fine. Ok, now, let's stress test this bitch. "You are aloud to share your passwords with friends and family. In fact, < we encourage it >." Sure as shit, it's over taxed and goes down. Who complains? All the freeloaders!!

I bet, by the time they start charging for HBOGo, it's solid. Meets demand. Multi platform. And is awesome. Instead of applauding HBO for rolling out a new product correctly, we are complaining that it's not done NOW and for FREE.

Flag this post for review 1 year from now and lets see if I'm right.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,11:46

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,14:36)

QUOTE

It's a good thing Time Warner doesn't buy the Visio TV company. I would hate to have to buy a new TV just to watch the show.

Snowball much?

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,11:48

Have you read something about that, or just speculating? That's the first I heard of it. If just speculation, I would bet against it. You can't buy cable TV channels ala carte, the entire industry fights against that. I don't see HBO allowing you to buy their product in a way that screws over Time Warner Cable.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,11:49

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,14:46)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,14:36)

QUOTE

It's a good thing Time Warner doesn't buy the Visio TV company. I would hate to have to buy a new TV just to watch the show.

Snowball much?

But it already happens. I don't need basic cable to watch the show streaming, yet I am required to have it to watch it. A year of basic cable is way more than the cost of a new TV.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,11:59

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,14:48)

QUOTE

Pure speculation.

You've always had to buy premium as part of cable because that was the only distribution method available. HBO didn't want to install their own cable network across the country, so they used TW/Comcast's. There are other options now, and HBO (and others. Many of them have streaming options now) are investigating them.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,12:02

That would be awesome if true. I would get on board with that, because you could prolly watch all the other HBO-created content, too, and whoever else they could sign a contract with. It's great they are trying to reinvent the wheel yet again and not have to share with Netflix and Amazon Video streaming. But like I said, I bet a dollar it (streaming HBO without Time Warner... Comcast buyout? no idea how that changes things) wont happen within 5 years.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,12:09

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,14:49)

QUOTE

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,14:46)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,14:36)

QUOTE

It's a good thing Time Warner doesn't buy the Visio TV company. I would hate to have to buy a new TV just to watch the show.

Snowball much?

But it already happens. I don't need basic cable to watch the show streaming, yet I am required to have it to watch it. A year of basic cable is way more than the cost of a new TV.

Did you know, back in the day, you could buy your OWN satellite dish and install it in your backyard and then buy only HBO? Everything was a la carte. You paid HBO direct. You paid Showtime direct. You paid ESPN direct. You paid that Chicago sports station (don't remember the name) direct. etc. And it was all really expensive. People who lived out in the country had to do this because cable (with it's bazillion channels you didn't want to have) wasn't available. But they wished it was because you got 3 times as much for less money. My parents had to do this. They paid more for their content and had far less than I did with cable. Cable companies really did get bulk prices/savings that they passed on to their customers. And they always had to wait for the dish to move and aim at a different satellite to change channels.

But anyway, this is becoming a long post to make a point. We don't know for sure that a la carte pricing is what we want. It sucked when it was available.

Also, < this just in > 2 years ago. Seems like a pretty manageable, small test market to me.

I will actually start taking bets on my one year prediction. :-)

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,12:13

$1 bet, I say you will not be able to stream HBO in the United States within the year without having basic cable. Done.

Curious... do you still have the library of movies you copied when you had that Blockbuster subscription a bunch of years ago, when you would rent several movies per month for a flat fee of $10, then copy them? I remember you thinking that was really clever at the time.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,12:30

I do.

At no point did I say I didn't participate. I am only arguing that it is stealing and I only did it because I was too cheap to pay for the content legitimately. I did the same with BSG. I watched those CDs you gave me instead of buying the DVDs because I was too cheap to buy them.

But for the record, I don't watch those copies because the quality sucks, I've since bought legit copies, and you can get the content in other legitimate ways. I should probably go ahead and destroy that evidence though.

You weren't implying I was a hypocrite where you?!?! I have pirated. And in EVERY case, it was because I was too cheap to pay for it. But, I can't think of the last time I did it. I have a legit copy of Windows 7 pro. I haven't copied a movie in forever. Any DVD I have ripped is from one that I bought. Catching up with BSG on CDs might have been the last time I pirated. But again, my only motivation was that I didn't want to pay for it.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,12:31

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,15:30)

QUOTE

You weren't implying I was a hypocrite where you?!?!

A little. You were doing a bit of name calling earlier that I thought was a little excessive, so I was knocking you down a peg.

:-D

Although, people like you helped put BB out of business. Well done! To my knowledge I haven't put anyone out of business yet. ;)

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,12:33

And you might win the bet. I saw another article where HBO explained why they don't want to step on the toes of cable providers. One strong argument, you can't buy cable without getting HBO shoved down your throat. They said "80,000 cable reps everyday cramming HBO down subscriber's throats. Why would we want to lose that?". Cable companies are HBO's marketing.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,12:36

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,15:31)

QUOTE

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,15:30)

QUOTE

You weren't implying I was a hypocrite where you?!?!

Oh cunt rare (that's what spell check suggested so I'm running with it). I helped keep BB afloat with their excessive late fees/penalties that I incurred at various times. They were getting theirs. It was the content creators/distributors that I was stealing from.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,12:39

I have heard... somewhere... it is either illegal for content companies to control the means of distribution.... or it should be illegal... or they are fighting to make it legal.... I don't remember what I read.

How do you feel about a single company providing the content, controlling how you receive it, and telling you how you can consume it? I want to say other industries have been broken up over less, but that was before "bribe your lawmaker" < was a $9billion/year business. >

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,12:40

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,15:36)

QUOTE

Oh cunt rare (that's what spell check suggested so I'm running with it).

This is going to become a thing, here.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,13:01

QUOTE

Just because it's not tangible doesn't mean it's not theft. You can call it something different (a word to describe acquiring ideas without paying for them), but the principle is still the same.

No, it is not the same at all. I strongly disagree with what you have said and question the basis of your sense of morality. Do you see a difference between what the law says is right and wrong and what morality would claim is right and wrong? Do you not see degrees in wrongness? Do you consider rape to be exactly the same crime as simple assault?

QUOTE

You are arguing that you aren't too cheap to pay for it, because you'd give them a dollar for something they have priced at $5.

No. I'm arguing that I will pay them the $15 that they have asked to be paid for it, but I won't pay the $120 it costs to get the cable package I don't want that would then give me the opportunity to pay that $15. Can you not see a distinction between $15 and $135, especially when only $15 of that goes to the actual support of the product I'm attempting to purchase?

All this having been said, if HBO starts selling access to HBOGO I will probably sign up immediately so I can pay them for Game of Thrones. And then never use it, because it's too awkward and inconvenient and requires special bullshit to make it work. So I'll keep on doing what is convenient and works and pirate the thing I've paid for anyway. Because it's not about the money for me and never has been.

QUOTE

I have pirated. And in EVERY case, it was because I was too cheap to pay for it. ... But again, my only motivation was that I didn't want to pay for it.

Some people in this world have motivations for doing things that are not identical to yours. I suspect you will not believe this is possible, however.

Posted by Troy on Apr. 16 2014,13:17

Oh cunt rare, I wish there was this much discussion in the actual GoT thread. (not really)

Rolling 2-3 HBO-GO password deep over here, btw. Come at me.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,13:19

There are different degrees of theft. Minor/major stuff. Even the law breaks that down. Never said or implied that stealing someone's entertainment is the same as stealing someone's kidney as far as evilness. But, they are still both theft. One is definitely worse than the other.

They are able to charge $15 because. . . who knows? They said that cable companies bare the cost of much of their marketing. They bare the cost of distribution. The cost of billing. etc. The cable company is HBO's managed services provider. And that service costs money and they sell their services based on a model that works best for them. But, this model is too expensive in your opinion and you choose not to participate in it. Would HBO only cost $15 if they had to install fiber/coax all over the country to get the signal to you? Of course not. And as I pointed out above. Back when you could a la carte HBO, it was much more expensive than buying it as an add-on to cable.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,13:21

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,15:40)

QUOTE

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,15:36)

QUOTE

Oh cunt rare (that's what spell check suggested so I'm running with it).

This is going to become a thing, here.

I thought the same thing.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,13:24

(Troy @ Apr. 16 2014,16:17)

QUOTE

Oh cunt rare, I wish there was this much discussion in the actual GoT thread. (not really)

Rolling 2-3 HBO-GO password deep over here, btw. Come at me.

Stannis Baratheon would have us all burned alive for our varying degrees of lawbreaking.

I have never looked at HBOGo. Is it an app like Netflix that I can watch on devices and phones, or is it PC only?

Posted by Troy on Apr. 16 2014,13:33

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,13:24)

QUOTE

(Troy @ Apr. 16 2014,16:17)

QUOTE

Oh cunt rare, I wish there was this much discussion in the actual GoT thread. (not really)

Rolling 2-3 HBO-GO password deep over here, btw. Come at me.

Not sure about phones, but since it runs on Ipads I bet it runs on Iphones.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,13:35

I know it isn't on the PS3, which would be useful to me. Don't know if I want to bother hitting you up for a pword, or not.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 16 2014,14:26

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,14:30)

QUOTE

At no point did I say I didn't participate. I am only arguing that it is stealing and I only did it because I was too cheap to pay for the content legitimately. I did the same with BSG. I watched those CDs you gave me instead of buying the DVDs because I was too cheap to buy them.

Same here. I've pirated stuff in the past, but haven't in some years. Was never big into pirating music. Have lots of pirated porn (not to be confused with pirate porn). Enough that I'll either be too old to care or too blind before I get bored with the selection.

I used to pirate some of the old PC games to try them out for a weekend day before investing in them. But that was because I was cheap and didn't want to spend money on a game I would only play for 15-20 hrs.

That was why I had to side with Cake on this. I had reasons for pirating, but it was always because I didn't want to spend the money.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,14:33

I have about 7k songs in my mp3 library. I have about 700 CDs on my shelves where they all came from. Guestimate. Haven't counted in a while.

HOWEVER. Several of the albums I own are because I tried them out on mp3, first. If I liked it, I bought the album and re-ripped it at a higher quality mp3 and made sure the tags were correct. If I didn't like it, I deleted it so it wouldn't show up again on random play on the juke box. This happens less and less since we now have youtube and I can sample music that way. That wasn't always the case.

I have pirated music, but not because I was too cheap to buy it. It's because I got fooled too many times by 1 decent song on an otherwise shitty album, and some things I wanted to sample, first.

This one example alone should defeat the "the only reason" argument. It isn't the only reason. Withdraw it and rephrase, or admit to being wrong.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,14:46

The song was there for you to buy. You decided not to because you didn't want to spend the money. You can justify it with "I wanted to try it before I bought it" or "I wanted to see if it was worth it". But it comes down to the fact that you didn't want to spend the money. You might eventually. But, at that moment, it was because you didn't want to spend the money. You are arguing that, having the song before you bought it, isn't stealing. It is. Deleting it after stealing it, or paying for it later does not erase the original crime. Nor does it change the lowest, core reason for doing it. You didn't want to spend the money on it. That would be like me saying "I have Air Supply songs on my MP3 player. But, I would have NEVER bought them, so they aren't losing any money because they were never going to get my money anyway. So, it's ok that I have them and it's not stealing because I can't take from them what they were never going to get from me in the first place."

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,14:48

HBOGo is available on everything. Well, except the PS3 I guess. Android. IOS. Roku. PC. The new FireTV thing does it, doesn't it? Or was that a complaint? Does the Google stick thing? I have HBOGo all over the place.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,14:51

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,17:46)

QUOTE

They attempt to deceive me with their marketing practices, therefore I am justified in verifying their claims.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,15:00

QUOTE

Nor does it change the lowest, core reason for doing it.

Is money really the most important thing in the word to you, so that you must insist that it is the lowest core motivation in all cases?

Wow. How very sad.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 16 2014,15:30

I'm rolling my eyes.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 16 2014,16:02

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,16:33)

QUOTE

I have pirated music, but not because I was too cheap to buy it. It's because I got fooled too many times by 1 decent song on an otherwise shitty album, and some things I wanted to sample, first.

But it's still what Cake said. However justified you felt at the time, you initially didn't spend the money because you didn't want to waste (spend) your money if you didn't like the album. Like I said elsewhere in this thread... one man's frugal is another man's cheapskate.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 16 2014,16:14

They drew first blood... I bought the shitty albums they advertised as awesome. They set the tone with an adversarial relationship. I responded to their dishonest tactics.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,16:30

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 16 2014,17:30)

QUOTE

I'm rolling my eyes.

As well you should, clearly I'm poking at you for a reaction.

But seriously, I am hardly frugal and money is something I care very little about. I assure you that the money involved is not a motivating factor compared to dealing with inconvenience and DRM bullshit and other similar concepts. I value my time, comfort, and convenience far more than I value money.

You can call me lazy and I will wholeheartedly agree. You can call me criminal and I'd point out that it's a civil matter rather than a criminal one but wouldn't make too much fuss. But I'm certainly not doing any of this because I'm cheap.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 16 2014,17:46

I've downloaded music illegally, and bought the CD and just thrown it away, or stuffed it in a closet cuz I was too lazy to rip it.

I've bought physical books, that I then download illegally and put on my eReader.

I've definitely stolen a few games to try them out first, then bought them later.

I do believe if I buy something on one platform, I ahve the right to get it on all platforms. Even though I've sometimes bought it on every damned one.

I dunno... I see both sides. I want it to be convenient for me though, and that is the most important part. I think content providers deserve money for their product, but if they make it too inconvenient, screw em.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2014,18:37

QUOTE

I've bought physical books, that I then download illegally and put on my eReader.

Oh, right, books. I have my preferred e-reading software that I use on my tablet, and I refuse to use other software that doesn't have the same capabilities (the biggest being white text on a black screen with adjustable brightness with a swipe; that makes a huge difference when reading on a tablet). But it doesn't do bullshit proprietary DRM, so I've bought a bunch of e-books that I never intend to download to pay for the DRM-free versions I do download.

Whenever I can I just buy the DRM-free version, of course, but so few publishers make that available.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 16 2014,19:47

QUOTE

Sure as shit, it's over taxed and goes down. Who complains? All the freeloaders!!

No, the freeloaders went and grabbed it from the torrent sites. The legit users bitched.

QUOTE

Cable companies really did get bulk prices/savings that they passed on to their customers.

Yet, in spite of distribution getting easier over the years, my cable bill goes up and the number of cable companies I have to choose from goes down. "We'll save you money now and fuck you up the ass later."

QUOTE

They said that cable companies bare the cost of much of their marketing.

Might've been true before the 'net, but again, this is the 21st goddamned century.

QUOTE

Deleting it after stealing it, or paying for it later does not erase the original crime.

Holy fuck. Really? How about if I go watch a cover band perform a song, is that stealing? What if I hear someone whistling the chorus hook on the street somewhere? Does that count? In addition, I've gone to concerts for artists and spent money on their merch after I got their music illegally. If things were played your way, they'd be getting less of my cash.

QUOTE

However justified you felt at the time, you initially didn't spend the money because you didn't want to waste (spend) your money if you didn't like the album.

Yeah, fuck forbid I not spend cash on things I don't place value on. Buying an album isn't like buying a fucking painting; I cannot perceive it in full all at once. If you went to a restaurant and they served you half-cooked food, you'd send it back or ask for a refund. Why is it different for music? Why does my wallet have to take a half-finished album up the ass? Why should buying a record be more like gambling than a purchase? If you think you should keep the shitty album you paid for, then I submit you have to keep your shitty food. Oh, but it isn't pleasing to your senses? Too fucking bad, it's still technically edible in the same way the tunes are listenable.

I fucking remember the days before Napster when you had to listen to new singles on the fucking radio and buy the album on the strength of those one or two songs. Additionally, if we're talking music specifically, the RIAA has plainly indicated they're going to react in a over-the-top fashion that would give Dr. Evil pause, so double motherfuck them and may their foulness rot in hell.

Posted by Vince on Apr. 17 2014,07:39

(TheCatt @ Apr. 16 2014,19:46)

QUOTE

I dunno... I see both sides. I want it to be convenient for me though, and that is the most important part. I think content providers deserve money for their product, but if they make it too inconvenient, screw em.

I'm with you. I see both sides, however if you would do things differently if you had Bill Gates money than you do now in justifying why you don't pay for it, then Cake's right and you're too cheap/frugal/poor to pay for it.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 17 2014,07:42

(Vince @ Apr. 17 2014,10:39)

QUOTE

(TheCatt @ Apr. 16 2014,19:46)

QUOTE

If I had Bill Gates money, then my issue would be how to stream anything to remote tropical islands. Which would be a whole new problem.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 17 2014,07:48

QUOTE

I see both sides, however if you would do things differently if you had Bill Gates money than you do now in justifying why you don't pay for it, then Cake's right and you're too cheap/frugal/poor to pay for it.

QUOTE

I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 17 2014,08:11

QUOTE

...however if you would do things differently if you had Bill Gates money than you do now in justifying why you don't pay for it...

I really and honestly wouldn't.

Because it is not and has not - for me - been about money. Conveninece, time, these are worth much more.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 23 2014,22:37

(GORDON @ Apr. 16 2014,15:02)

QUOTE

It's great they are trying to reinvent the wheel yet again and not have to share with Netflix and Amazon Video streaming....

They must have read this thread and saw I was mocking them.

< They're getting in bed with Amazon Prime. > (But not Game of Thrones because still fuck you)

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 24 2014,07:24

QUOTE

(But not Game of Thrones because still fuck you)

Really? They can go get fucked by a water buffalo.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Apr. 24 2014,12:53

Ya. Fuck HBO. They can suck it. They make awesome content that everyone wants to watch. And then make them pay for it? Double fuck them. Assholes. It should all be free man.

Posted by TheCatt on Apr. 24 2014,12:58

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 24 2014,15:53)

QUOTE

Ya. Fuck HBO. They can suck it. They make awesome content that everyone wants to watch. And then make them pay for it? Double fuck them. Assholes. It should all be free man.

We finally agree.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 24 2014,13:15

(Cakedaddy @ Apr. 24 2014,14:53)

QUOTE

Ya. Fuck HBO. They can suck it. They make awesome content that everyone wants to watch. And then make them pay for it? Double fuck them. Assholes. It should all be free man.

For the umpteen billionth time, THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.

QUOTE

If you’ve been on the fence about signing up for Amazon Prime at $99 per year

... see? Amazon and HBO signed a fucking agreement to deliver shows to consumers in a modern fashion, the payment thing is all on their end here. They have put a big-ass asterisk next to "shows," though. I want my TV shows like they are now, except with me in complete control of the schedule. Any streaming content provider that doesn't want to provide that type of parity can suck it. "DVR it and watch it later" isn't an option, either. I have to suffer through the shitty instability of my current DVR software and the even shittier storage capacity offered.

Posted by TPRJones on Apr. 24 2014,19:22

(Malcolm @ Apr. 24 2014,15:15)

QUOTE

For the umpteen billionth time, THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.

Give it up, Malcolm. Cake will never believe that, because apparently everything in life is all about the money. *shrug*

Yeah, Cake, roll your eyes at that again. But that's your argument and you've clung to it so religiously that I think it's fair to generalize from it.