Forum: Internet Links
Topic: happy birthday, war on drugs
started by: Malcolm

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 17 2013,10:47
< 42 years old today >.  Granted the article is a year old, but...
QUOTE
A study by analysts at the RAND Corporation, a California research organization, suggested that if marijuana were legalized in California and the drug spilled from there to other states, Mexican drug cartels would lose about a fifth of their annual income of some $6.5 billion from illegal exports to the United States.

Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 17 2013,10:54
Sounds like a win to me.
Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 17 2013,11:11
At this point, I can only assume the U.S. gov't receives kickbacks from the cartels for keeping the street prices insanely inflated.
Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 17 2013,12:23
I've been saying for 20 years that it's almost a certainty that a lot of the money fueling the drug war lobbyists comes from the main drug lords.  It's the only answer that makes any sense as to why we are still doing it.

The drug war hasn't been a money-losing failure.  It's successfully made some people filthy rich, just like it is supposed to.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 27 2013,10:40
< Illegal Mexican > and < Middle Eastern drugs > numbers through the roof.  Oh wait, I meant "legal synthetic drugs" and "illegal prescription online drug sales."  My mistake.


Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 01 2013,10:44
< "The war on drugs has failed." >
QUOTE
These findings suggest that expanding efforts at controlling the global illegal drug market through law enforcement are failing."
...criminalising drugs had "gifted one of the largest commodity trades on earth to organised crime".

What's the excuse the UK gov't has?
QUOTE
The Home Office said drugs were illegal because they were dangerous.

Wow.  Pretty sure the DEA has a similar response.



Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 01 2013,12:20
Quickest way to fix our economic mess would be to end the drug war.  Overnight you'd get new companies springing up to produce cheap recreational drugs all across the country, with plenty of employment opportunities to fill.  It would also free up a nice fat chunk of tax dollars across all levels of government to spend on other projects.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 01 2013,12:26
QUOTE
Quickest way to fix our economic mess would be to end the drug war.

The current gov't will go down in flames before they admit they were ever one iota wrong on this.  DEA = Denial in Extreme until Armageddon.  It would do a wonderful job gutting a large portion of the cashflow making its way to criminal organizations.  Granted, it'd be done by redirecting some of the money to other criminals (government agencies), but I can only imagine the enforcement budget would drop like a rock.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 24 2013,10:44
< From here >.

This illustrates law enforcement's double standard for drugs in this country.

Prescription drugs: We'll let doctors prescribe as fucking much as they want and wonder why abuse rates are sky high, then we'll make people return the unused portion to us on their own when they could sell them and make money.  We'll also subsidize the drug costs with insurance.

Street drugs: Guns, lots of guns.  We will fucking carpet pesticide-bomb other countries to get rid of that shit.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Oct. 24 2013,12:04
You aren't making sense.

Get rid of all drugs to end "double standard"?

Prescription drugs help billions of people.  But because some people abuse them, they are in the same category as heroin and meth?

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 24 2013,12:13

(Cakedaddy @ Oct. 24 2013,14:04)
QUOTE
You aren't making sense.

Get rid of all drugs to end "double standard"?

Prescription drugs help billions of people.  But because some people abuse them, they are in the same category as heroin and meth?

Prescription drug abuse numbers have overtaken the street drug numbers.  Instead of putting the responsibility on doctors not to hand out shit like time release opiates (like oxy) by the bottle full, they're expecting the patients to pick up the extra slack and return the unused meds.  Because they aren't worth $5-20 a pill or anything.  Brilliant strategy.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 29 2013,10:29
< Congress listens to Malcolm >.
QUOTE
The F.D.A.’s long resistance to added restrictions on the drugs underscores what critics say is its continuing struggle to address the complexities of the painkiller problem in its often conflicting roles — one as a regulator that approves drugs and the other as a drug safety watchdog.

Though I'm sure there are no conflicts of interest or bribery involved in determining which drugs go to market and how heavily restricted they are.  That'd be plain wacky because there's no way pharmaceutical companies contribute to political fundraising.



Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 14 2014,11:17
14-Oct-1982: Ronald Reagan declares war on drugs (only a few days after I was born, that fucker).

QUOTE
In 1986, the US Defense Department funded a two-year study by the RAND Corporation, which found that the use of the armed forces to interdict drugs coming into the United States would have little or no effect on cocaine traffic and might, in fact, raise the profits of cocaine cartels and manufacturers.


QUOTE
During the early-to-mid-1990s, the Clinton administration ordered and funded a major cocaine policy study, again by RAND. ...  the report said that treatment is the cheapest way to cut drug use, stating that drug treatment is twenty-three times more effective than the supply-side "war on drugs".


QUOTE
The National Research Council Committee on Data and Research for Policy on Illegal Drugs published its findings in 2001 on the efficacy of the drug war.
...
"The existing drug-use monitoring systems are strikingly inadequate to support the full range of policy decisions that the nation must make.... It is unconscionable for this country to continue to carry out a public policy of this magnitude and cost without any way of knowing whether and to what extent it is having the desired effect."


QUOTE
Richard Davenport-Hines, in his book The Pursuit of Oblivion, criticized the efficacy of the War on Drugs by pointing out that:

   "10–15% of illicit heroin and 30% of illicit cocaine is intercepted. Drug traffickers have gross profit margins of up to 300%.  At least 75% of illicit drug shipments would have to be intercepted before the traffickers' profits were hurt."


QUOTE
At least 500 economists, including Nobel Laureates Milton Friedman, George Akerlof and Vernon L. Smith, have noted that reducing the supply of marijuana without reducing the demand causes the price, and hence the profits of marijuana sellers, to go up, according to the laws of supply and demand.


QUOTE
Despite over $7 billion spent annually towards arresting and prosecuting nearly 800,000 people across the country for marijuana offenses in 2005 (FBI Uniform Crime Reports), the federally funded Monitoring the Future Survey reports about 85% of high school seniors find marijuana "easy to obtain". That figure has remained virtually unchanged since 1975, never dropping below 82.7% in three decades of national surveys.


QUOTE
Penalties for drug crimes among American youth almost always involve permanent or semi-permanent removal from opportunities for education, strip them of voting rights, and later involve creation of criminal records which make employment more difficult.  Thus, some authors maintain that the War on Drugs has resulted in the creation of a permanent underclass of people who have few educational or job opportunities, often as a result of being punished for drug offenses which in turn have resulted from attempts to earn a living in spite of having no education or job opportunities.


Fortunately, we've learned from all this.

QUOTE
In his 2015 budget request, Obama is asking Congress for $25.4 billion, $200 million more than the government plans to spend in fiscal 2014.

In Obama's 2015 plan, about 43 cents of each dollar will be spent on programs aimed at reducing Americans' demand for drugs, a part of of the president's health strategy—what the administration officially calls drug "demand reduction."

The rest of the funding—about 57 cents of each dollar, or a total of $14.4 billion—will be spent on "supply reduction," federal efforts to root out drug producers and sellers. That includes $9.2 billion to support domestic law enforcement's anti-drug actions.

I guess Captain Ahab has to hunt his whale.  Or maybe the law has become addicted to the never-ending stream of increasing cash they get from this racket.  It's one of the chief reasons why I have no respect for anyone involved in that government industry.



Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 14 2014,17:47
QUOTE
Or maybe the law has become addicted to the never-ending stream of increasing cash they get from this racket.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

I still bet that most of the lobbying money that supports the continuation of the war on drugs comes directly from the cartels.

Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 14 2014,20:27
I love the argument from the pro-drug war dudes, "You think the cartels are just going to let go of those markets?"

Yeah, after the profit margins go away.  They'll move on to something more lucrative.  They are bizzes.  Exceedingly violent ones, but biz nonetheless.

Posted by TPRJones on Oct. 14 2014,20:41
What do they expect, cartel hits on the legal dealers?  Hell if it's done right they themselves could become legal dealers.  But they won't because if it's done right the profit margin will be down to normal levels for a typical business, which is not nearly enough for them.


Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 21 2014,10:34
< US > records spectacular success utter fucking failure with regards to decreasing poppy cultivation in Afghanistan.
QUOTE
The U.S. military is closing in on the end of its long war in Afghanistan, and Washington has spent $7.6 billion trying to reduce the production of poppy, the brilliantly blooming plant whose resin is made into heroin and other opioids.

The legacy thus far? Poppy cultivation was at an all-time high of 209,000 hectares last year, it grows in numerous parts of the country where it once did not, and U.S. officials blame Afghanistan’s government for failing to stop it.

Those are the key findings of a new report released Tuesday by the U.S. Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction.

Fuck yourself, war on drugs.



Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 10 2014,11:08
< NYC cops > ordered to stop being dicks.
QUOTE
Before Commissioner Bratton first took the reins of the NYPD in 1994, the department had been arresting only about 2,000 people a year for possessing pot, or about 34,000 total from 1981 to 1995.  

But under Bratton’s “broken windows” theory of policing, which targets low-level crimes to establish a sense of law and order, low-level marijuana possession became an NYPD focus in high-crime neighborhoods. Bolstered by dramatic drops in crime, such arrests soon reached over 50,000 a year, and Bratton was celebrated as the top cop in the country.

And we all know the bastion of safety New York City was in the '80s and '90s.

Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 14 2015,10:29
God help me, but I agree with < this dude >.
QUOTE
Remarkably, 2 Chainz manages to silence Grace by relaying an incident where police stopped the rapper's tour bus after they smelled marijuana emanating from the vehicle. A miniscule amount of pot residue was found onboard, resulting in the police filing charges against the rapper's security team. The charges that were ultimately dropped, resulting in "a waste of taxpayers' time and money."

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 25 2015,10:15
< Hospitals > find out what happens when bud's hard to come by.
QUOTE
Health departments in Alabama, Mississippi and New York have issued alerts this month about more spice users being rushed to hospitals experiencing extreme anxiety, violent behavior and delusions, with some of the cases resulting in death. Similar increases have occurred in Pennsylvania, Arizona, Florida, New Jersey and Texas.
The total number of fatalities nationwide this year is not available, health officials said. One person in Louisiana died Wednesday and two others were in intensive care, said Mark Ryan, the director of the Louisiana Poison Center.

Let's take a look at these states and what they think of bud, a substance that has zero recorded ODs throughout the history of its use.

Alabama: illegal
Mississippi: decriminalized, but still illegal to buy
New York: decriminalized, but still illegal to buy
Pennsylvania: illegal
Arizona: medical use, otherwise illegal
Florida: illegal
New Jersey: medical use, otherwise illegal
Texas: illegal
Louisiana: illegal

Hmm, I notice a pattern.  Know who's not on that list?  Alaska, Oregon, Washington, and Colorado.

Check what's < still legal > in more or less every state in the US.  That shit will kill you if you take too much.  But let's keep the bud illegal while people kill themselves for want of a safer substitute.  I tried K2.  It was inferior in every way to the thing it's trying to imitate, like Canadian football.

Posted by Malcolm on May 11 2015,10:46
< Morgan Freeman >, god himself, says to legalize bud.
QUOTE
Marijuana has many useful uses. I have fibromyalgia pain in this arm, and the only thing that offers any relief is marijuana

He's obviously mistaken.  That substance has no medicinal use and its death toll every year of ZERO makes it highly dangerous unlike caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, and < sugar >.  Fucking seriously, I saw a PSA on TV that had preschoolers playing around with flavoured blunt wrappers, ciggies, etc., to make the point about how companies target young children with their chemical products.  Have the fucktards that produced that self-righteous strawman of a commercial ever set one foot in a liquor store?



Posted by Malcolm on May 23 2015,10:50
< Dude in jail for two decades plus might get out >.  His crimes?  Three drug charges.
QUOTE
Nixon stopped short of granting clemency, which would have seen Mizanskey freed directly. In a statement Friday, he said: 'my action provides Jeff Mizanskey with the opportunity to demonstrate that he deserves parole'.

Go fuck yourself, Jay.  The initial charges were fucking bullshit.  God forbid people get drugs besides nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 17 2015,10:58
< 41 years ago >, Lucifer whispered into Nixon's ear, and like Dick did every time, he listened.  Over one TRILLION dollars and over half a million bullshit incarcerations later, we're still at it because it seems everyone in DC skipped the 1920s chapter of American history in high school.


Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 07 2015,10:33
< Heroin-related > deaths quadruple in the past decade, and I know at least one of them.
QUOTE
"Everything we see points to more accessible, less-expensive heroin all over the country," Frieden said of the joint report by the CDC and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration which analyzed national survey data on drug use from 2002 to 2013.

The report found that nearly all people (96 percent) who use heroin also use multiple other substances, and that the strongest risk factor for heroin abuse is prescription opiate abuse.

What a resounding success this initiative has been.  Certainly warrants pumping billions of wasted dollars into it which might otherwise be used catching the real asshole drug dealers, dudes like this < prick >.  However, since he pushes product out of a corner office instead of a street corner, it took way, way longer to get to him.



Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 09 2015,13:13
< Heroin > has killed more people in Jersey than car accidents.
QUOTE
According to data from the state health department, the heroin-related death rate in the Garden State is now higher than suicide, homicide, car accidents, AIDS and is on par with cirrhosis of the liver.

Surely we just need to pump more money into this failing war on drugs.

Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 06 2015,15:52
< Mexico > maybe ready to prove its feds are 10,000 times smarter than ours, meaning roughly 100 IQ points.  Unfortunately, there are some lobotomized individuals trying to point out how this won't work.
QUOTE
"I don't think there's any sense that if we take marijuana away from them, that will incentivize them to move into other areas," said Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance. "I think they're already incentivized to move into as many areas as they can."

That's right, Ethan.  Because we all remember how organized crime kept bootlegging well into the '40s.  Fucking tool.

QUOTE
"I see no reason for (the cartels) to continue to have marijuana as a significant percentage of their business once large-scale legalization is achieved," said Alison Holcomb, one of the architects of marijuana legislation in Washington state.

Of course not.  Because the profit margin on legal weed is nowhere close to what it is on illegal coke, meth, smack, acid, designers, ad nauseum.  That's looking past the real money -- racketeering, extortion, prostitution, large scale robberies, and such.



Posted by TheCatt on Nov. 06 2015,15:54
QUOTE
Wednesday's landmark Supreme Court ruling would allow four people to grow and consume the plant for recreational use in a country ravaged by a decade of drug violence, but any nationwide legalization of marijuana is likely years away.

And people bitched about the Ohio law limiting it to 10 farms.

(Yes, I assume that's a typo)

At any rate, legalization is the way to go.  I would expect cartel violence to spike, as the same cartels would be competing for smaller markets, but the cartels to diminish somewhat.

My (20 year old) memory is that pot wasn't exactly expensive to begin with.  I bought half a pound for $20 once.



Posted by TPRJones on Nov. 06 2015,16:37
It still depends on how it is legalized.  Too restrictive or taxes too high and there will still be a black market, just as there is for cigarettes.  The more important difference is it would severely curtail the destructive War on Durgs, which is he real reason to do it.
Posted by TheCatt on Nov. 07 2015,06:55
< Bernie wants to remove it from the controlled substances list >

Amen.

Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2015,13:56
QUOTE
The Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act, introduced Wednesday, is modeled after a bill first proposed by Rep. Jared Polis (D-Colo.) in 2013, which was reintroduced this year as the Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act.

That implies we regulate alcohol intelligently, which is not something I'm prepared to say.  That's also excessive because if anything it should be less regulated because it's not as dangerous.



Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 10 2015,09:15
< Fucking hell >.
QUOTE
Waseso said that crocodiles would be better at preventing drug traffickers from escaping prison as they could not be bribed -- unlike human guards.

That's the sort of idea you can only come up with while high.

Posted by GORDON on Nov. 10 2015,10:45

(Malcolm @ Nov. 10 2015,12:15)
QUOTE
< Fucking hell >.
QUOTE
Waseso said that crocodiles would be better at preventing drug traffickers from escaping prison as they could not be bribed -- unlike human guards.

That's the sort of idea you can only come up with while high.

Doing some stuff in Spain once I asked what a certain fenced off area was... the dude I was with said that was their high security prison.  Apparently it was all underground and if the inmates rioted, they would be flooded and drowned.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 10 2015,13:23
That's more of a nuclear option.  You aren't half drowning them every day to maintain order.
Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 20 2016,10:38
< Mexico > thinking about easing up on bud enforcement.
QUOTE
just as mafia groups and bootleggers gave up on illicit moonshine after Prohibition ended in the United States, Mexico's drug gangs would have little interest in a legal marijuana market, especially if it lured in reputable pharmaceutical and tech firms.

"I am not so optimistic to think that a cannabis business in Mexico would not encounter opposition or violence from the cartels. However, their profit margins are being eroded daily, monthly and yearly by the continued expansion of medical and recreational marijuana programs in more and more U.S. states."

Except for fucking retard states like Iowa and Oklahoma.  How badly do cartels want to maintain a monopoly on chems and therefore keep them illegal?
QUOTE
However, even Mexico's established medical industry can operate under constraints.

Mikel Arriola, the head of health regulator Cofepris, said until last year, Mexican doctors only wrote a few dozen morphine prescriptions a month as their home addresses appeared on them and they feared their access to the drug may attract criminal attention. "They were scared."

Doctors don't even want access to shit lest the baleful eye of the underworld settle upon them.



Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 30 2016,10:44
55 years ago today, < a small number of assholes fucked over the rest of the world > with an international treaty.  Decades and untold hundreds billions of dollars later, negative progress has been made.  This also laid the groundwork for Dick Nixon to declare war on drugs, though I'm sure he was looking out for the best interests of the country his administration.
QUOTE
The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.

— John Ehrlichman, Nixon White House Domestic Affairs Advisor, on the War on drugs in a Harper's Magazine interview in 1994

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