Topic: Trump's Challenge
started by: Leisher
Posted by Leisher on Oct. 24 2012,11:43
Long story short, he tells Obama to release all of his college paperwork and passport paperwork, and he'll give $5,000,000 to the charity of Obama's choosing.
Trump is a nut job, but if this gets enough press, it could hurt Barry Sorento IF, and ONLY IF, there is actually something in those documents.
But again, a LOT of people will have to demand a legit answer for this to gain any credibility.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 24 2012,11:51
He just has more cash than he knows what to do with. If there's something, a big something, in any of those docs, then they'll either never see the light of day or they've been covered up sufficiently well such that no one will be able to find anything wrong. That being said, Trump's a dick and I take nothing he says at face value.
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 24 2012,12:03
Yeah, like i said after the Bush National Guard Memo.... all future forgeries will be perfect.
Posted by Leisher on Oct. 25 2012,07:38
< Obama campaign is trying to avoid the challenge by blaming Romney... >If there is even one actual journalist still working in the MSM, I hope they have a chance to ask Obama point blank why he wouldn't accept the challenge to shut Trump up and make him look like an idiot AND help a charity.
Posted by Malcolm on Oct. 25 2012,10:41
< Who the fuck watches Leno? >
Posted by Leisher on Nov. 01 2012,10:25
Deadline expired. Quite honestly, this just gives Trump credibility. Outlandish claims aside, if all you have to do to shut up someone like Trump and get $5 million for charity is show your college paperwork, why not do it?
In fact, if he shuts Trump up with those documents publicly, and everything is on the up and up, I guarantee you that he wins votes. He could go in and be as condescending to Trump as he wants and his voter base who come unhinged (in a good way) cheering him on for shutting up a right winger.
Anyone know of a legit reason why he wouldn't release his records?
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 01 2012,10:28
The buzz I saw from the left was, "He thinks he can boss the black President around." Spun it as a "Obama has too much dignity/Trump is a racist."
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 01 2012,10:50
(Leisher @ Nov. 01 2012,12:25)
QUOTE
Anyone know of a legit reason why he wouldn't release his records?
I don't like talking to crazy people and playing games to amuse them, even if it makes me look good in the end. I'd rather avoid the crazy to begin with.
Posted by Leisher on Nov. 01 2012,10:52
Exactly. Those aren't answers. They're bullshit spin to avoid the issue. This guy promised the most transparent presidency in history. So far, we're seeing the least transparent.
Clinton was more honest about Monica than Obama has been about pretty much everything.
And again, by all accounts Obama has spent millions in legal fees to protect those records. What is he hiding? Meanwhile, Romney was essentially forced by pressure from the MSM and Obama to release his taxes because for some reason we need to know what he makes and how much he pays in taxes, but we don't need to know anyone's educational background...?
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 01 2012,11:07
"I want to avoid crazy people" is bullshit spin?
Posted by TheCatt on Nov. 01 2012,11:08
I dont get why his college records matter at all?
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 01 2012,11:15
(TheCatt @ Nov. 01 2012,13:08)
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I dont get why his college records matter at all?
Along with his birth certificate, the time and place to challenge that shit has looooooooooong since past.
Posted by Leisher on Nov. 01 2012,11:43
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I dont get why his college records matter at all?
Well, there's a reason he won't release them right?
According to some folks in the MSM who have looked, and some documentary film crew, nobody remembers Obama at school. Well, they remember him, but apparently he was a terrible student who rarely attended class, and spent all his time getting high.
From what I've heard, the big controversy is that he may have attended college on a foreign student aid loan/grant.
That's where this all stems from.
I don't necessarily agree that there's something to find, but I do find it interesting that he won't release the records. What's he worried about? People seeing he got bad grades? Who gives a shit?
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 01 2012,12:03
(Leisher @ Nov. 01 2012,13:43)
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QUOTE
I dont get why his college records matter at all?
Well, there's a reason he won't release them right?
According to some folks in the MSM who have looked, and some documentary film crew, nobody remembers Obama at school. Well, they remember him, but apparently he was a terrible student who rarely attended class, and spent all his time getting high.
From what I've heard, the big controversy is that he may have attended college on a foreign student aid loan/grant.
That's where this all stems from.
I don't necessarily agree that there's something to find, but I do find it interesting that he won't release the records. What's he worried about? People seeing he got bad grades? Who gives a shit?
1) There's not necessarily a reason he won't release them. Were I B-Rock and Trump made me this offer, I'd do the same thing and not respond to him. I don't buy the fact that releasing these docs wins him votes he didn't have before. I don't buy the fact that releasing them will get people off his back for everything else. Your supporters don't like seeing deal seriously with people they view as a dumbass.
2) Obama was a bad student, didn't show to class, and got wasted a lot? Sounds like Bob Dylan and 75% of the dudes I went to undergrad with.
Posted by Leisher on Nov. 01 2012,12:12
QUOTE
1) There's not necessarily a reason he won't release them. Were I B-Rock and Trump made me this offer, I'd do the same thing and not respond to him. I don't buy the fact that releasing these docs wins him votes he didn't have before. I don't buy the fact that releasing them will get people off his back for everything else. Your supporters don't like seeing deal seriously with people they view as a dumbass.
No. You're leaving off the part where he's been keeping them under wraps since before the first election. I don't give a rat's ass if your people don't cater to you dealing with the likes of Trump. They wouldn't vote for Romney if they caught you fucking their wife/husband. You need to care about indy voters.
QUOTE
2) Obama was a bad student, didn't show to class, and got wasted a lot? Sounds like Bob Dylan and 75% of the dudes I went to undergrad with.
Exactly. He's already the president, so who gives a shit? Again, his voters will still vote for him, and he'll bolster his support by standing up to the "bullies".
So what is he hiding in there? What is so damaging that he simply won't reveal them?
And this isn't some new issues that Trump dreamed up. This has been going on since the last election cycle.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 01 2012,12:23
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You need to care about indy voters.
I'd argue "independent" voters don't give a fuck about these docs. There's not enough of a return (not even for $5 mil for charity) for him to give a shit.
QUOTE
So what is he hiding in there? What is so damaging that he simply won't reveal them?
Personally, I'd be doing it out of spite about now.
Posted by Leisher on Nov. 01 2012,12:45
Well, he can't release them now. Now it will hurt him as people will ask why he didn't stand up to Trump and earn some charity $5 million.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 01 2012,12:50
(Malcolm @ Nov. 01 2012,15:03)
QUOTE
Were I B-Rock and Trump made me this offer, I'd do the same thing and not respond to him.
If it were me, I'd have said, "Make it 10 million" and then looked like the big damned charity hero for making a dumbass give his money to charity.
If I had nothing to hide.
So.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,10:23
< Always avoid crazy people >.
Posted by Leisher on Nov. 07 2012,11:25
I actually started following Trump to see the challenge, and haven't unfollowed him yet. Thus, I saw the tweets this morning when I logged in, and I think that article is biased. In fact, I know it is, which is why the writer talks about the rants more than shows them, so he can put them into his own context.
Besides, Trump is a self made billionaire, so call him as crazy as you want, but he has the brains to run a business, which is more than can be said for every politician walking this planet.
Oh, his challenge to Obama went up to $50 million prior to the deadline. Are we still seriously saying that it's not worth it to release those records? Call some of the dying kids that Make-A-Wish deals with and tell them that.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,11:45
QUOTE
Trump is the son of Fred Trump, a wealthy New York City real-estate developer. He worked for his father's firm, Elizabeth Trump & Son, while attending the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, and in 1968 officially joined the company. He was given control of the company in 1971 and renamed it The Trump Organization.
Self-made my ass.
EDIT:
QUOTE
Oh, his challenge to Obama went up to $50 million prior to the deadline. Are we still seriously saying that it's not worth it to release those records? Call some of the dying kids that Make-A-Wish deals with and tell them that.
I can just as easily say that if Donny is waving around $50 million he's willing to donate to charity if someone does something, he's looking like just as big a douche for not doing it anyway as B-Rock does for not taking him up on it.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,12:52
Dying kids dont matter, they dont donate to campaigns.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,13:05
Trump was the dude that brought the charity thing into it and tried to use it like a cudgel.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,13:10
What a dick.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,13:12
(GORDON @ Nov. 07 2012,15:10)
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What a dick.
A ballsier move would've been, "I'll contribute 50% to your campaign and match it with a charitable donation." He's as much of a dick for suggesting it as Obama is for rejecting it. I do not, for a single, solitary second, believe Trump gives a fuck about the children, either.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,13:21
(Malcolm @ Nov. 07 2012,16:12)
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(GORDON @ Nov. 07 2012,15:10)
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What a dick.
A ballsier move would've been, "I'll contribute 50% to your campaign and match it with a charitable donation." He's as much of a dick for suggesting it as Obama is for rejecting it. I do not, for a single, solitary second, believe Trump gives a fuck about the children, either.
Trump is not the president of sick children. Trump is not supposed to be a leader and example to the entire country. Obama is a piece of shit who has been swaddled in the robes of righteous godhood... it is the people like me cursed to see the truth.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,13:28
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Trump is not supposed to be a leader and example to the entire country.
He sure as shit thinks he is.
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Trump is not the president of sick children.
Obama isn't the president of responding to crazy billonaires and their equally crazy political ultimatums.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,13:39
(Malcolm @ Nov. 07 2012,16:28)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Trump is not supposed to be a leader and example to the entire country.
He sure as shit thinks he is.
QUOTE
Trump is not the president of sick children.
Obama isn't the president of responding to crazy billonaires and their equally crazy political ultimatums.
Actually, Obama is Trump's president, too.
Is it your day to White Knight for Obama, or something?
Posted by Troy on Nov. 07 2012,13:42
The only people that got any money out of this whole thing were the hairdressers that sculpt the Trump combover for press releases.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,13:47
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Actually, Obama is Trump's president, too.
Which means he should immediately play ball with anything any of his citizens put forth, particularly the ones who openly despise him?
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Is it your day to White Knight for Obama, or something?
While I don't want him as a public servant in any capacity whatsoever, I'm not holding anything him for not acknowledging Trump's offer. I didn't expect Dubyah to respond personally to Sean Penn's insanity.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,13:52
Trump had the national stage, Obama had a chance to make him look like a chump, and Obama obviously made the brilliant move since no one cares whether or not he sucked dick to get through college.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,14:02
And by the way... and this is partially in response to another obnoxious relative on Facebook last night who said something to the effect of 'we have to heal the nation, stop being so partisan, and just start doing what Obama says...' (I am not exaggerating that... we need to start doing what obama says)My response to that is: Actually, it is absolutely the government's, and the president's, job to answer to the people. Being asked to prove your citizenship shouldn't be spun into a multi-year conspiracy theory that goes on needlessly for so long that eventually when the cell phone capture of it comes out no one believes it anyway. And the college grades are not anything he is required to provide, but a citizen should not be chided for asking the president to see them, and if ignored, as everyone was, to attempt to cajole for them.
People are only required to turn over random private papers when he is a republican.
Posted by TPRJones on Nov. 07 2012,14:06
It would probably be better at this point to just exempt all politicians from privacy laws. Anyone running for office their records become available upon public request at any institution where they have records. Make it a part of the cost of choosing to run for office.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,14:07
ANd in response to yet ANOTHER facebook post that someone just threw up...I don't think I am willing, as a veteran, to "fight and die for another person to have their opinion." Too many people have stupid, terrible, dangerous opinions, and I'm not going to defend their right to have it any more, much less die for it. And on top of that, most of these people don't want to hear my opinion, and I have, in fact, been told to "shut up" and keep them to myself. So, if no one gives a shit about mine, then I don't give a shit about theirs. I have more important things to worry about.
Let it all burn.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,14:42
(TPRJones @ Nov. 07 2012,16:06)
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It would probably be better at this point to just exempt all politicians from privacy laws. Anyone running for office their records become available upon public request at any institution where they have records. Make it a part of the cost of choosing to run for office.
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
This is presumably inalienable as in "could not give it up if you wanted to." "Houses, papers, effects" seems kind of ironclad and all-encompassing.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,14:48
Except when it comes to the TSA.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 07 2012,15:11
QUOTE
...but a citizen should not be chided for asking the president to see them, and if ignored, as everyone was, to attempt to cajole for them.
It's not the fact that it's a mere lowly citizen asking the king for his papers that I find psychotic about this.
I was talking to my brother about this shit literally now years ago, probably 2-3ish. Neither he nor I support B-Rock. We openly disapprove of him. We, however, both agreed the birthers are wasting energy that could best be focused elsewhere. There is no light at the end of this particular tunnel. He already had half a term under his belt then, and it's a full one now. The horse ain't just out of the barn on this one, the door's shut, and the fucking barn burned down.
< Wikipedia listing of every legal challenge against his citizenship and why it lost, along with links to source documents. > All the federal cases end with "[insert higher court here] declined to hear the case." Not that they set records for number of dockets processed there but if they found merit in any of those instances, they'd've elevated the case. Or there's a conspiracy in the Supreme Court and every other federal court to suppress this.
< Snopes.com saying why the long form certificate released is valid and how the Hawaii folk authenticated it and how it's not a spoofed PDF >. Or there's the aforementioned conspiracy coupled with each and every doc linked in that article and the folk at snopes (generally regarded as trustworthy) being in on it. And the Hawaiian gov't. And some dude that got to forge the doc. And all the other dudes he would've needed to help him.
Trump challenges him for various other bullshit documents in some kind of hybrid Hail Mary gesture combined with a desperate plea for press sprinkled with a bit of messiah delusions ...
QUOTE
"Essentially a large portion of the American people are asking me to serve as their spokesperson."
... when he could've done something interesting like "I'll donate $5 million to charity if you get the [unemployment rate/debt/insert troubling metric here] down to X by year Y." Instead he's coming off like a raving loon while Obama's managing to say and do nothing to him and looking better by comparison. Fucking hell, if they put as much effort into attacking his overall image and policies instead of pursuing time-wasting shyte such as this, the election a day ago might've gone different.
Posted by TPRJones on Nov. 07 2012,15:51
(Malcolm @ Nov. 07 2012,16:42)
QUOTE
This is presumably inalienable as in "could not give it up if you wanted to." "Houses, papers, effects" seems kind of ironclad and all-encompassing.
1) meh, we've amended before, and 2) who reads that old thing anymore, anyway?
I'm not suggesting it because of Trump so much as the other good it would do. It would humanize our politicians to just get it all out there and be done with it. No mud slinging left to do because it's all already pre-slung when they get on the ballot in the first place. No time wasted on digging up the crap, and it'll put an end to most of those sorts of conspiracy nuts (not all of course, some will insist there are still things being hidden).
Plus their bank records being publicly available would make it slightly harder to be corrupt. Not much mind you, but a little bit.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,16:06
(Malcolm @ Nov. 07 2012,18:11)
QUOTE
I was talking to my brother about this shit literally now years ago, probably 2-3ish. Neither he nor I support B-Rock. We openly disapprove of him. We, however, both agreed the birthers are wasting energy that could best be focused elsewhere. There is no light at the end of this particular tunnel. He already had half a term under his belt then, and it's a full one now. The horse ain't just out of the barn on this one, the door's shut, and the fucking barn burned down.
Even more than that, it was all a moot point anyway. No one denied his mother was an American, which makes him American. Yeah, a huge waste of energy from the birthers, but again.... it aint Obama's job to say "fuck you" when American citizens ask, early on, to prove he is legit according to the established rules. They didn't just start asking mid-way through his term. When it IMMEDIATELY got turned into a lefty talking point that "peeps who request his citizenship papers are conspiracy theorists," it just makes everything more fishy. I am actually a little surprised that the basic requirements aren't made publicly and easily available the moment before someone is put on a ballot. Why wouldn't they be? Anyone with an inquisitive mind starts wondering.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,17:57
Look at how deeply our fellow Americans and registered voters believed the disinformation campaign:< http://twitchy.com/2012....control >
This is why I am no longer willing to die for the right of other people to have their free speech. Other people are too stupid and their free speech isn't worth it.