Topic: Gun questions
started by: Cakedaddy
Posted by Cakedaddy on May 07 2007,17:03
I want to get a gun. And who better to ask than some of the gun lovin' individuals that frequent these parts. . .Specificaly, I want a pistol of some kind. Very little knowledge of what's out there other than what I've gotten from movies and Counter Strike.
Don't know if there's one out there that gives all that I want. . . that's why I'm asking you! I want (listed in the order of importance):
Stopping power
Clip as apposed to revolver
Fun to shoot
Light so even the wife can fire it
Smaller the better
I don't need:
50 round clip
Dirty Harry big or gangsta flashy
As cool as a Desert Eagle is, I don't think I need that yet.
Where's a good place to get one? I plan to go to the local gun club here and rent a few to get a feel for what's out there. I want to get my wife to the range so she's more comfortable with it. I even intend to take my 14 year old a few times to get him familiar with them (if state law permits!).
As far as security, I plan to get one of those trigger gaurd locks (the kind that fills the trigger gaurd so you can't pull the trigger), plus a small gun safe (big enough for a couple guns and a small amount of ammo).
Why do I want one? If you care. . . just do. Have always liked shooting, just never persued it. What's really driving it is that I'm afraid that as time passes, it will be more and more difficult to get one. So, I'll get mine now while the gettin's good. I plan to apply for a CWP as well. Not so much as because I need it, but because I want to get one before you can't.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Posted by GORDON on May 07 2007,17:14
I think you might have a problem reconciling "stopping power" with "smaller the better."In the Korean War the North Koreans would wrap their torsos in a bamboo... corsette... so they could keep charging when the UN forces' 5.56 rounds would perforate their guts. Not much stopping power...and that was a rifle.
If I recall.
Maybe it was 'Nam.
Posted by GORDON on May 07 2007,17:15
But I think the shooting range rentals is a good idea, and a good gun shop owner should be happy to help you find what he want.Go in and ask for a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.
Posted by Cakedaddy on May 07 2007,17:37
(GORDON @ May 07 2007,12:14)
QUOTE
I think you might have a problem reconciling "stopping power" with "smaller the better."
Well ya. But I didn't know if this was one of those cases where Thib would come back with "Ya, but thank god they invented the. . .whatever" so that you could have both.
Posted by Cakedaddy on May 07 2007,17:38
Oh, and as far as the bamboo thing. Didn't they know they could get a similar if not better result by just getting them all hopped up on angel dust?
Posted by GORDON on May 07 2007,17:45
Yeah but the bamboo corsette would physically hold in their guts so they wouldn't be getting coils of intestines snagged on tree branches and such.
Posted by Leisher on May 07 2007,18:49
QUOTE
I think you might have a problem reconciling "stopping power" with "smaller the better."
Noisy Cricket.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 07 2007,18:52
First, it's "magazine," not clip. You gotta talk the talk.Second, like Gordon says, light and small kind is sort of a trade-off with stopping power. This is one of those areas where people have non-stop arguments.
I personally have a .357 magnum revolver, but loaded with .38 special ammo it's fun and easy to shoot. However, you don't want a revolver, so you're probably looking at 9mm as the best trade-off. You might consider a .380, which is considered marginal in terms of stopping power, but would definitely be smaller with less recoil. I have heard people make the point that bullet placement is such an overwhelming factor in a gunfight that it's better to go with something that you know you can shoot straight with; even if that means a .22.
I guess the answer is, unfortunately, there is no right answer. It's kind of like buying a car, really.
QUOTE
Where's a good place to get one? I plan to go to the local gun club here and rent a few to get a feel for what's out there. I want to get my wife to the range so she's more comfortable with it. I even intend to take my 14 year old a few times to get him familiar with them (if state law permits!).
That's probably the best way to do it. Around here, anyway, there are a couple of gun stores that have ranges and will rent stuff out to you. It can get pricey: usually costs $5 to $15 per hour for the gun, plus $10 to $15 for the range, plus $10 or so for the ammo. And you'll probably have to take a range safety test first, which may or may not have a fee. So you're looking at probably $50 and a couple of hours of time. But it beats buying something you eventually don't like.
My suggestion here is: try out a 9mm. Let your wife handle a couple of different ones. Glocks are good, and come in lots of sizes. Kahrs are supposed to be good, too. I would not suggest the Ruger 9mm pistols, as I found them bulky even with my giant hands (don't be afraid to pick one up and try it though; YMMV). Find one that you think feels good and try it out. If the recoil is too much for your wife, maybe try a .380.
Legally, you probably can't go wrong buying from a licensed dealer. There's no federal law against buying guns from a non-dealer (at least in your home state), but there's no telling what your state laws are. Pawn shops may or may not have cheaper (used) stuff, but they probably won't have a range. Also, the dealer staff MAY know what they're talking about (or may not; again, it's like buying a car). Expect to drop $200 to $500 depending on what you get. BUY SPARE MAGAZINES. You can't have too many of those.
QUOTE
As far as security, I plan to get one of those trigger gaurd locks (the kind that fills the trigger gaurd so you can't pull the trigger), plus a small gun safe (big enough for a couple guns and a small amount of ammo).
You definitely want to check your state laws on what is required; at the very least, most states require you to "reasonably" keep it away from minors. I have a safe. I'm not a big fan of the trigger locks, but again check your state laws; they may be required there for all I know. Again, I think it's a trade-off: anything that prevents somebody else from getting at the gun prevents YOU from getting at it, and they say when you need a gun you really needed it 10 seconds ago. On the other hand, you really don't want somebody else to get it when you're not around.
All right, I don't know how helpful I've been. If you want some help with research, I can scrape up some links. packing.org is supposedly pretty reliable with info on state laws. Good luck, and have a blast!
Posted by thibodeaux on May 07 2007,18:54
(GORDON @ May 07 2007,20:14)
QUOTE
In the Korean War the North Koreans would wrap their torsos in a bamboo... corsette... so they could keep charging when the UN forces' 5.56 rounds would perforate their guts. Not much stopping power...and that was a rifle.
If I recall.
Maybe it was 'Nam.
If I recall.
Maybe it was 'Nam.
Must have been 'Nam, because we was still using WWII stuff in Korea.
Posted by Vince on May 07 2007,19:23
I was thinking 38 as well (about as close to 'stopping power' and small so the wife can shoot it).Thib, why do you say he doesn't want a revolver? I've always favored the revolver for home defense.
Posted by TPRJones on May 07 2007,19:23
Careful, some folks consider this sort of discussion to be < terrorism >.
Posted by Malcolm on May 07 2007,21:30
(TPRJones @ May 07 2007,21:23)
QUOTE
Careful, some folks consider this sort of discussion to be < terrorism >.
My delicate sensibilities are offended.
Posted by Cakedaddy on May 08 2007,01:06
(Vince @ May 07 2007,14:23)
QUOTE
Thib, why do you say he doesn't want a revolver? I've always favored the revolver for home defense.
Cause I said I didn't want a revolver. :-) Clips. . I mean magazines are cool! Really, it's because I know I could load with a magazine faster than I could load a revolver.
As far as the small but stopping power, it would boil down to how small can you go but still have stopping power. Like you said, opinions vary, so I just want to hear yours.
I wasn't sure a .38 or 9mm would be big enough. But it sounds like it would be in most cases. Or at least that's the opinion here. I like the sounds of the 200-500 range. Nice that you can get something good that inexpensive.
As far as the trigger guard. . . I like those cause they just look so 'safe'. I may not leave it on while it's in the safe. But I'll like them when it's not in there.
Was talking about it more with my wife. Trying to find out her interest level and what not. Her response was, "I want to go with you when you pick it out (at which point I was happy that she was showing so much interest), so I can ask them if they have the Midget Cricket".
When I get the time to hit the range/club, I'll keep you informed of what I find or am leaning towards.
Thanks for the info.
Posted by TheCatt on May 08 2007,04:16
I agree with the range idea. I've never owned a gun, but went to the range once (twice?) with my wife and Thib and it was a fun way to try out the different guns.
Posted by Malcolm on May 08 2007,07:29
(Leisher @ May 07 2007,20:49)
QUOTE
QUOTE
I think you might have a problem reconciling "stopping power" with "smaller the better."
Noisy Cricket.
Dart gun w\ neurotoxin-filled darts.
Posted by Paul on May 08 2007,11:25
The smaller the gun, the louder it'll be.The bigger the shell it fires the louder and more recoil you'll get.
The smaller the barrel the louder and less accurate it will be.
If you want your wife to shoot it, you don't want the gun to be so big that she can't wield it, or so small that when she sees/hears it she becomes afraid afraid of it.
If you want dependability, a revolver is going to beat something with a magazine. They don't jam, and you don't have to worry about the springs in the gun or magazine wearing out. The simplicity of the revolver made is easier to clean and maintain as well.
Of course, with a magazine you're gun is going to hold a maximum 11 shots (10 in the mag, 1 in the chamber). They tend to be a little quieter, and depending on the model they might cut down on the recoil some, making them more accurate as well.
I have a quick-load with my revolver. I pop open the cylinder, drop the spent shells out, insert the quick-load, and with a twist the bullets are released from the quick-load. I slap the cylinder into place and get to fire another six shots.
I think a .9mm or .38 is a good idea.
Really, for home use, my opinion is that dependability and a loud BANG are more important than a greater shot capacity and quicker reload.
In the middle of the night, in the dark, with that adrenaline, you are not going to hit the burglar unless he's in your face. I want something loud, so that mofo knows he's being shot at.
I keep two rounds of snake shot in the cylinder. Should there be an intruder in my house, those first two shots are warnings. Unless I have the gun pressed against someone the rounds are non-lethal. I don't have to worry about the slugs penetrating a wall and then hurting family or electronics.
Of course, snake shot does not have the same power as a regular shot. In my .22 (with a magazine) it jams every time I fire a snake shot because there isn't enough energy to properly expel the spent casing. With the revolver obviously I don't have to deal with that problem.
Oh, and with the revolver, should I decide the first shot needs to be a slug instead, it'll take me pretty much no time to rotate the cylinder two clicks.
That being said, if I planned on using the gun on a frequent basis, I'd go with one that had a magazine. Magazines are convenient, and allow the firearm to hold nearly twice as much as the typical revolver.
Posted by GORDON on May 08 2007,11:56
The old timers in the Marines would often lament the discontinuation of the .45.
Posted by Paul on May 08 2007,12:08
I remember watching a show on the history of firearms.if I'm not mistaken, the .38 Special was developed for the Marines (or Navy) to protect them from Filipinos.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 08 2007,12:56
< Not quite. >QUOTE
The US Army bought these .38 Double Action Revolvers with the intention of replacing the Single Action .45 Colt. While the action of the DA was an improvement over the SAA, the US Army learned the hard way that the anemic .38 Colt Cartridge was vastly inferior to the .45. During the Moro Uprisings in the Phillipines at the turn of the 20th century, it was learned that even 6 direct hits with a Colt DA was not alway a guarantee it could stop a Moro Warrior. Due to the problems with the 38, the SAA and 1878 DA in .45 Colt were issued to the troops stationed in the Phillipines along with 1897 Winchester Riot Shotguns.
Posted by Paul on May 08 2007,13:22
Okay, maybe it was the Army.But that's the .38, not the .38 Special.
< Wikipedia >
QUOTE
The .38 Special was introduced in 1902 as an improvement over the .38 Long Colt cartridge which, as a military service cartridge, was found to have inadequate stopping power during the Philippine-American War.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 08 2007,15:25
Oh I gotcha.
Posted by unkbill on May 09 2007,14:35
(thibodeaux @ May 07 2007,18:52)
QUOTE
and they say when you need a gun you really needed it 10 seconds ago. On the other hand, you really don't want somebody else to get it when you're not around.
Holy BeJesus you have that one right. A gun safe and a trigger lock. You might as well lay down and surrender the first signs of trouble.
SAFETY is first and foremost but if you can't get to it why have it?
Posted by Vince on May 10 2007,15:46
All this gun talk is giving me an erection.
Posted by Paul on May 11 2007,07:07
I was trying to find Sex Machine's gun from From Dusk 'Till Dawn but couldn't dig up an image.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jun. 05 2007,21:19
Finally made it to the range. Wife went along too as all the gun talk got her interested. What red blooded American (male or female) wouldn't want to shoot a gun?! Anyway, after doing some research, I settled on the Glock 26 (small 9mm) and the Glock 21 (large .45). My priorities have changed and I now want a small gun that would actually work for a concealed carry, and a 2nd, fun gun for shooting cause shooting is fun. I explained to the salesman that I was a handgun newb and he agreed with what everyone's been saying in that the Glock is a good starter gun. Reliable, easy to maintain, etc. I asked if he recommended anything else. I got the salesman answer of "anything here is good and it's all about what you want and like and blah blah blah." Another clueless one chimed in with "What's your life worth?". Seems to be a repeating cry among sales sites. I should buy an expensive gun cause my life's worth it I guess. Anyway, he took me to the Kahr section. He showed me the one he used as a concealed carry and I liked it. It was thinner than the Glock 26, but about the same in length and height. He carries his in his pants near his back pocket. Tucked away, and shirt over it, you'd never know it was there. It was a Kahr CW9. 9mm and not much bigger than my hand.So we started with the Kahr and 50 rounds of practice rounds. He said the type of rounds he gave us would simulate what the personal protection round would feel like. He took us out to the range and showed how to load the magazine (which I already knew). Showed us proper holding techniques, warned about slide bite, etc. I went first and fired 5 rounds, then another 5. Then the wife took her turn. First loaded gun in her hands, ever. It was cute. :-) She even jumps when the slides goes forward. Anyway, she takes aim, fires, hits the target in the jugular. She was intimidated by the gun, but took the other 4 shots anyway. At that point, he turned us loose and went back to the showroom. We continued shooting, and I talked the wife into shooting another 5 rounds. The gun was pretty squirrely and hard to aim. There's not alot to hold on to and it almost wants to jump out of my hands. Awkward gun to shoot because of it's size. By the 30th round or so, I was getting more use to it. But over all, it wasn't a fun gun to shoot. Again, hard to aim, jumpy, etc. But, it was accurate. It would go where I told it when I really took my time and aimed.
We traded that in for the Glock 21 and 50 rounds. That felt WAY different in my hands, obviously. Loaded it up with 5 rounds and got ready. I held on tight expecting a real kick. Fired the first round and naturally, lots of recoil. Fired the other 4. I really liked it. It's a much bigger boom, lots more power, etc. But it's also a heavier gun and it handled it well. I passed it to the wife. She held on with both hands (after a few different grips trying to get a feel for what was going to work for her) and fired a round. She was very intimidated and handed the gun back to me. I continued shooting and liked the gun more and more. WAY easier to aim. The gun would recoil pretty heavily, but it fell very naturally right back where I needed it for the next shot. I found that at about 15 yards, I could squeeze off 10 rounds in about 4 seconds and hit the target with all shots. 70% of them in the 6" diameter center. I could not do that with the Kahr as it was just too squirrely. Each shot was a chore to keep on target. The Glock 21 had like auto aim or something. I got so cocky that I pushed the target out to about 35 yards. Fired 5 rounds and brought the target back. Didn't even hit the paper. :-) I talked the wife into trying it one more time as the rounds were disappearing. She agreed and fired all 5 this time. She shot low, but other wise, didn't do too bad.
Over all, the .45 was really really fun to fire. Easy too. The 9mm was hard to fire and not nearly as fun. I have no doubt that the above is due to the size of the guns rather than anything else. I'm guessing a larger 9mm would be alot more fun to fire as it would be more controlable as well. The wife agreed, that the .45, even though it's a much bigger round, etc, was an easier gun to fire. I almost think if they made the small guns heavier, they'd be easier/more fun to fire.
We spent $63 at the range to have the fun we did. $20 got us the rental gun, range time, eye/hearing protection. $12.xx for 50 rounds, 9mm. The second gun was $15 rental and $14.xx for 50 rounds, .45. I thought that was pretty good. It was cool that the guy took the time to basically give us a crash course on gun safety, firing, etc. I want to go back and try the Glock 26 (small 9mm like the Kahr) and maybe another, heavier small 9mm before deciding. The wife kept pointing out the overly huge, massive Dirty Harry revolvers.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jun. 05 2007,21:19
Holy geez that's a long post. . .
Posted by Paul on Jun. 06 2007,09:08
(Cakedaddy @ Jun. 05 2007,21:19)
QUOTE
The wife kept pointing out the overly huge, massive Dirty Harry revolvers.
She's suggesting that you compensate for something.
Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 09 2007,04:03
(Cakedaddy @ Jun. 06 2007,00:19)
QUOTE
The wife kept pointing out the overly huge, massive Dirty Harry revolvers.
Must...resist...Freudian...joke
Posted by Cakedaddy on Jun. 09 2007,08:37
I was going to follow it up with a joke as well, but thought I'd let you guys do it.
Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 09 2007,22:15
(thibodeaux @ Jun. 09 2007,06:03)
QUOTE
(Cakedaddy @ Jun. 06 2007,00:19)
QUOTE
The wife kept pointing out the overly huge, massive Dirty Harry revolvers.
Must...resist...Freudian...joke
As one of my buddies said to me one time, "Temptation is there for a reason -- to be given in to."
Posted by Paul on Jun. 15 2007,13:35
(Cakedaddy @ Jun. 05 2007,21:19)
QUOTE
I settled on the Glock 26 (small 9mm) and the Glock 21 (large .45).
Posted by Paul on Nov. 22 2011,17:43
(Cakedaddy @ Jun. 06 2007,00:19)
QUOTE
The wife kept pointing out the overly huge, massive Dirty Harry revolvers.
I'll probably be getting a .44 Magnum soon.
Well, not one of these:
I'd be getting something even longer.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 22 2011,19:45
I want a rifle that looks good, is fun to shoot, and can be used for big game hunting.I was seriously considering a Remington .30-06 bold action, which is great for hunting but not-so-great for target practice and goofing around with. I originally checked out the .270 (what my girlfriend uses) but that is the minimum caliber for hunting elk in KY, and if I get drawn to hunt one I want something with a higher caliber than the minimum. (Besides, I need a bigger one than my girlfriend, right?)
I've always wanted a lever-action though, so I checked out the < Henry Big Boy series >.
Yes I realize that a level action is slightly less accurate, but most of my shooting will be at targets, not at cervids.
I did some research on hunting with these things. The .357 (which also shoots .38 Special rounds) is capable of downing deer, but I wanted something with more killing power (knockdown power/stopping power/whatever ya wanna call it).
My father-in-law is looking at getting a gun as well. He's mostly interested in target shooting and home protection, but he wants to be able to hunt should the need for meat arise.
Recoil was a big issue for him.
Coincidentally he was looking at getting a Henry Big Boy as well, and he plans on getting the equipment so he can make his own rounds.
He looked at a bunch of figures and stuff online and came up with this which sort of confirmed what I had been hearing:
Cal Ammo Type Powder Recoil Killing Power
270 Winchester 150 grain 17 ft/lb = 37.4
30-06 Springfield 150 grain 20.1 ft/lb = 37.3
357 Magnum(Rifle) 158 grain 4.7 ft/lb = 12.7
44 Remington Magnum 240 grain 11.2 ft/lb = 26.4
458 Winchester 500 grain 62.3 ft/lb = 217.3
He'll be getting the Henry Big Boy that fires the .357 & .38 Special rounds.
I've finally sort of settled on the < Henry .44 >.
My father-in-law has urged me not to get one until after the first of next year. That means that he's probably told my folks that I want one, so it might arrive as a Christmas present.
Of course, since this does shoot handgun rounds, I'll probably get a < .44 Special > down the line. I don't want to tangle with the recoil of a .44 Magnum. (Though I think you can put Specials in Magnums, so maybe just getting a Magnum would be better?)
Anyway I'm not concerned about a handgun right now.
Posted by thibodeaux on Nov. 23 2011,05:40
Yeah, supposedly the lever guns in pistol caliber are fun times.
Posted by TPRJones on Nov. 23 2011,09:30
I love lever action. It's what I first learned to shoot with, and it's what I'm most accurate with. I learned by going dove hunting with one. Last few times I went I had more tasty kills than the folks with shotguns. And less buckshot to chew on.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 15 2011,12:30
I got my girlfriend a .22 pellet gun (nitro piston driven, to be quieter) with a hardwood stock for Christmas.I gave it to her Tuesday because I wanted her to have time to sight it in for this weekend, so she could plug squirrels while we waited for deer to show up this weekend.
Low and behold, while I was there the UPS guy showed up with my Christmas present, a .50 muzzle-loader.
Cool! Now I'll have my own gun to shoot this weekend!
I ended up taking the pellet gun down with me because she won't have time to sight it in.
I mounted the scope but it was way off. It was too far to adjust.
I remounted it and it was closer, but still too far off to adjust.
Finally I mounted it a third time and sort of pushed it where I wanted it to go as I tightened the screws. My efforts paid off as I was able to use the adjustments to get it where I wanted after that.
Today I also did a test fire of my .50.
Now, I had fired about fifty shots with the pellet gun, which has a heavy trigger. The .50 muzzle loader has a light trigger, but I didn't know that.
When it went off, it was a surprise.
I was about 4" off targer from 100' away, and the shot was an accident, so I could have been closer, so I think it's pretty accurate.
If I shoot it more I'll have to clean it, so I'm going to leave it as-is until this weekend.
Bambi beware.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 07 2012,12:54
My parents got me that Henry .44 for Christmas.Or, they got me an IOU. Everyone sold out after Thanksgiving.
Henry ships their next batch out to dealers in 2 weeks, so I may have it in just over 3 weeks.
Zzzzz....
I went to a friend's house on Tuesday and he taught me how to reload ammunition, which drastically cuts down the cost of ammo.
I reloaded half a dozen .44's, but I guess I have to wait to shoot'em.
My father-in-law wanted to learn to reload so he went too, and he actually shot the .357 magnums that he loaded. He said they had a lot more kick than the factory-made rounds he had been shooting. (We made the loads pretty hot)
Posted by thibodeaux on Jan. 07 2012,14:57
Which is basically how the magnums were invented: reloaders loading hot .38s
Posted by Paul on Jan. 07 2012,15:50
I read that the FBI (I think... some government agency) uses the .38 special but they get a special hot round which makes it equivalent to a .357.They do this because if they testify about shooting at somebody, the .38 special sounds less hostile than using a .357 magnum.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 20 2012,18:40
I bought a Ruger LCP today.
That pic has the older laser. Mine has the newer LaserMax laser.
I went in looking at 9mm's, but didn't love anything they had. The Ruger LCP (.380) looked interesting, but I didn't know much about it.
I wanted a gun I could conceal, and had been looking at the S&W Bodyguard (also a .380) online, but 9mm cartridges are cheaper and more powerful.
Anyway, I went back home, did research on the Ruger, and liked what I saw. I was sold on the gun, so I bought it.
I haven't fire it yet. I have my daughter over this weekend, so I probably won't take it out until Sunday or Monday.
I've never owned a gun with a laser before.
"Sarah Conner?"
Posted by thibodeaux on Jan. 21 2012,04:42
Yeah, I was looking at those, too. Let me know how you like it.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 21 2012,09:19
Will do.Some of the stuff I read had to do with them selling out pretty quickly.
When I bought mine, some guy was checking it out (I got the only one one stock... nya nya!).
Also, another customer said he had a Ruger LCP without the laser and he loves it.
I was looking at the < LC9 > but they only had one without the laser. The guy called his supplier and they were sold out and had no idea how long it'd be before they would come in.
Note: Buy it with the laser bundled on. It's a lot cheaper than adding one on yourself. For example, I think it cost about $75 or $80 more to get the LC9 with the laser, but if you buy the laser separately it costs < more > < than > < twice > < as > < much >.
I ordered some accessories for my new LCP on CheaperThanDirt.com. I got some more ammo (jacketed hollow points), a lockable carrying case, a 15 cartridge magazine (which will stick out a bunch but oh well, it's for plinking. Also, reviews on Amazon are bad, but someone said that he read on forums that it works great if you tap it after loading it,which ended up working for him too), and a concealed holster.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 21 2012,10:32
Lasers, huh.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 21 2012,11:10
Frick'n lasers!The laser showed me that my point of aim jiggles around a lot more than I thought it did.
Also, when pulling the trigger (unloaded, and uncocked) I was surprised at how much it moved me off target.
But now that I can see the movement it's easy to correct.
Also with the laser, I can practice drawing it quickly, so I can develop a good feel for pointing it exactly where I want to point it without the sites or laser.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 21 2012,11:14
I scoff at all of your usages of laser sights on a hand gun. And mock it.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 21 2012,11:21
My daughter used the laser to make the dog run around and go crazy in the house.My brother has a Glock 21 (.45) and when I told him I got a .380 he asked if I got the pink one.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 21 2012,11:27
(Paul @ Jan. 21 2012,14:21)
QUOTE
My brother has a Glock 21 (.45) and when I told him I got a .380 he asked if I got the pink one.
I would have said, "I didn't know they sold those to men."
Posted by Paul on Jan. 21 2012,11:31
You're just jealous because you'll never have anything dangerous in your pants.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 21 2012,11:36
(Paul @ Jan. 21 2012,14:31)
QUOTE
You're just jealous because you'll never have anything dangerous in your pants.
Not even a honey badger?
Posted by Paul on Jan. 21 2012,11:43
Except for the honey badger.You got me there.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 21 2012,11:58
Looks like it's $60 in < KY > for a conceal/carry permit.Plus whatever the class is (I think $75).
I'll wait until my girlfriend is free and see if she'll take it with me. (You know, to hold my hand when the gun makes the loud bangy noise)
Until then I'll have to rely on my concealed honey badger.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 21 2012,21:40
Oh man, I only bought the normal edition!< http://www.guns.com/the-ruger-lcr-zombie-slayer-edition.html >
Posted by Paul on Jan. 24 2012,08:37
I finally shot the Elsie yesterdayI set up a 10 gallon barrel on some firewood at 10 yards and took a couple shots at it.
Then I examined the damage and went back, and emptied the clip into it.
Each shot got progressively lower.
The exit holes made a smiley face:
Since a .380 is basically a short 9mm which is basically a short .38 Special which is basically a short .357 Magnum I was a little worried about being on the low end of the power spectrum.
I fired some shots into a solid piece of oak, then I split the wood until I found the bullets.
Shooting into the grain:
I was surprised to see that it penetrated about as far as the .38 & .357 slugs that I pulled out of oak at my father in law's place.
Against the grain:
The penetration wasn't as good against the grain (as expected) and the bullet made a substantial turn.
I am pleased with my purchase. It is easy to conceal, light, holds 6+1 cartridges, and is pretty accurate.
The laser is intimidating. I mean, if I was a villain and that laser lit me up it would bring a humbling reality to the situation. It's sort of like being shot without being shot yet. It's almost like a violation.
Besides, getting a gun with a laser fulfills a promise I made to myself when I was a kid and saw the first Terminator movie.
This is not a gun I would take to a gun fight. The iron sights are tiny (so as not to snag in your pocket) and a .380 doesn't have the stopping power of a larger caliber weapon. Plus, the shorter barrel decreases accuracy.
This *is* a gun I could comfortably stick in my pocket and so it is something I'd could have on my person if trouble finds me.
I honestly don't expect to carry it around town, but I am likely to have it on my person when I take my dogs for walks.
Everything is a tradeoff with handguns.
If I was just interested in plinking I'd get a .22 LR handgun because the ammo is dirt cheap (< $16 for 500 rounds >, about 1/10 of what .380's cost) and recoil is minimal. (I might get one. They seem like a lot of fun.)
If I was just interested in home protection I'd get a .38 Special or maybe a .40, because I want my shots to count.
If I did a lot of target practice and wanted it for home protection too I'd probably get a 9mm, because it has good stopping power and the ammo is cheap.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 25 2012,16:47
I decided to site in the laser to the LCP this morning.I went from it being a couple inches off to it being 6 inches off to it being way off the paper.
Ugh.
I couldn't tell were the shots were going at that point.
Then I thought, "Duh. Use the iron sights."
I wasn't sure if the irons sites were accurate so I used them and put a hole an inch from the bulls eye on my first shot.
After that sighting in the laser was easy.
I put several more clips through the .380.
Oh, I did make one mistake. Mid way through I took off my 25 DB ear ear muffs and forgot to put them back on before firing a cartridge.
That mofo is loud! In fact, I found myself wincing in anticipation of the boom after that. I had to force myself to do a long smooth trigger pull rather than yanking the trigger.
Posted by Paul on Apr. 22 2012,14:52
I ended up getting a 12 gauge last week so I could do some turkey hunting this week.It's a Mossberg 535 which is a lower end gun, but suites my purposes.
I've been shooting 3.5" shells in it and it kicks like a mule.
It is *not* fun to shoot, but I'll only be using it for Spring & Fall turkey hunts, and home protection.
Posted by GORDON on Apr. 22 2012,15:08
Get that weapon in a really tight, firm prone position so your whole body takes the recoil instead of just your shoulder.
Posted by Paul on Apr. 22 2012,16:05
(thibodeaux @ Jan. 21 2012,07:42)
QUOTE
Yeah, I was looking at those, too. Let me know how you like it.
I've had it awhile now, and I like it.
If it's not too bright you can see the laser outside at 20 yards, but I don't like to shoot it that distance, and when I do I prefer using the iron sights.
The LCP is a close quarters weapon, made to shoot at nearby threats. I know the KY CCW test is at 7 yards, but I tend to shoot it at ten yards in my back yard.
It has a long pull instead of a safety but once you get used to it it's no big deal.
Some people on the forums complain of "trigger slap" but once they get used to shooting it with a firm grip that goes away.
I really don't shoot it enough to get a sore finger. It's not a plinking gun, so I might go through two clips before shooting something else.
If I wanted to plink with a handgun I'd get a .22LR because ammo is dirt cheap, has less recoil, and not as loud (especially if you get the sub-sonic ammo). I guess a 9mm would be my second choice for plinking because ammo is cheaper and it can double as a defensive round. They're bigger though, so they'd be less fun to lug around in my pocket when I take the dogs on hikes in the woods.
*If* I did use my wallet holster to carry my Ruger LCP every time I go into my woods (in case of coyote or venomous snake) it would be small enough that I would forget it was there most of the time. It's technically illegal to do that without a CCW until the signed bill goes into law this July.
So I would say that the LCP is an inferior target shooting gun, slightly inferior to the 9mm as far as stopping power, but superior to carry around and forget about it.
IMO, if you want target shooting and home protection, get a 9mm.
If you only want home protection get a .38 Special or larger (.357, .45, etc.). Get the biggest caliber that your weakest shooter is comfortable shooting. I think most wives will prefer a .38 Special.
If you only want to plink, get a .22LR.
If you want to carry/conceal, get a .380 or 9mm depending on what you're comfortable carrying.
Posted by Paul on Apr. 22 2012,16:49
(GORDON @ Apr. 22 2012,18:08)
QUOTE
Get that weapon in a really tight, firm prone position so your whole body takes the recoil instead of just your shoulder.
I do brace myself and hold it firm against my shoulder.
I probably screw up the stance though.
It really digs into my collar bone.
I didn't know that < Marines > < use > < Mossberg >'s < sometimes >.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 02 2012,20:02
When I took my CCDW (carry/conceal/deadly/weapon) class we set our firearms on a counter up front. He pulled my Ruger LCP and said that it was the same weapon that he carries as backup. He also said it was an excellent weapon and passed it around class so that people could see what he recommended. There were maybe 30 people in class.When we hit the range I felt a little pressure because I was using "the gun." You need to land only 11/20 shots anywhere on the silhouette. I hear legally blind people have passed the test so I wasn't worried about failing, I just wanted to be accurate.
From what I saw, I probably had the 2nd best grouping of the class. The #1 guy user a revolver with a 6" or 7" barrel.
I was surprised at how many people didn't correct their shots. They'd have a pretty right group, but not on the center of the target.
After we qualified on the range one guy asked to see my target, then said he planned on getting a Ruger LCP too.
My rifle is a Henry .44. I got it (over the .357) because it's a better hunting rifle, and Henry makes a beautiful firearm.
I have some thick brush in my area and I've read that a .270 and even a .30-06 will deflect with small branches but a .44 magnum will cut through the brush fairly well.
Lately I've been eyeballing a cheap .44 magnum revolver which can be used for hunting and uses the same ammo as my rifle but I'm afraid that Cakedaddy's wife will tease me if I get one.
(Cakedaddy @ Jun. 06 2007,00:19)
QUOTE
The wife kept pointing out the overly huge, massive Dirty Harry revolvers.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 02 2012,20:24
Basically before I get the .44 magnum handgun I want to know if having one will nix the chances of Cakedaddy's wife ever sleeping with me.I know how mush she likes small things.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 17 2012,19:01
I bought myself an early Christmas present.
It's a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum with a 7.5" barrel. I'd been looking at them for awhile and a couple weeks ago I saw someone on television bag a deer with the same type of gun (except he added a scope to his), which made me want it even more.
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,19:19
Scope would be semi-bad-ass on that thing.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 18 2012,12:41
I put a couple dozen rounds through it.It's really accurate.
I shot mostly .44 specials, but I did put a half dozen magnums through it.
I had been fearing the recoil but it's a big pussy cat.
I never took my ear protection off, but I assume it's extremely loud.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 20 2012,11:38
I talked with a cop today. He says that all of the local gun shops have sold out of AR 15's and such. People are snatching up everything they can before the Feds put a ban into place.I have no desire to have an assault rifle, but the fact that I might not be able to get one soon makes me sort of want one.
Rifle ammo is too expensive to justify the purchase though.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 23 2012,13:29
I was an NRA member (I let my subscription expire and they haven't offered me a significant gift to renew) and they kept whining that if Obama became a lame duck President he would ban assault rifles.Because of this I have been keeping an eye on AK-47 and AR-15 prices. I have no desire to own an assault rifle, ammo is expensive and they eat a lot of ammo. Plus I want guns that I can use to hunt, and neither is good for hunting more than coyotes. (I guess my tune would chance if the zombie apocalypse comes).
So while I didn't want one, I figured that if I found a deal I could buy it as an investment.
Well, prices have skyrocketed since then. After the school shooting and Obama's speech prices have more than doubled.
Some guy was complaining that guns that sold for $400 are now selling for $1,400. I don't see them selling for quite that much but prices have shot up significantly (maybe $1k for a cheap $400 AK).
Now I wish I bought one.
I heard the chief of police talking the other day and he said that ever AR-15 in KY gun stores has sold.
Crazy.
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 24 2012,12:30
I wonder if Obama has stock invested in gun manufacturers and sellers.
Posted by Paul on May 25 2013,18:56
I've been getting into reloading ammo. My father-in-law has set up a reloading station and we've been buying stuff.We're having a hard time getting powder though. Next month we'll make a trip to Lexington to hit a gun show, as they'll have some. The prices will be high, but it's basically the only place to get powder.
Primers that were $15 are now $45, but at least they're available a semi-local store.
I wanted to get my handgun into hunting shape so I removed rosewood handles:
I added the Hogue Tamer grips (that give a much better grip on the gun and reduce the perceived recoil):
Finally, I added rings and an Ultra-Dot, red-dot aiming system:
The sight has no magnification.
I did quite a bit of research and most people who handgun hunt with a scope use 2x magnification, while some use 2.5x. (This is because you hold the gun away from your face, so acquiring your target in the little lens ahead of you is difficult)
The problem is that even the best scopes tend to break when you shoot magnum rounds. Ultra-Dot red-dot sights are a bit tougher. Scopes also have poor visibility in low light situations, whereas the Ultra-Dot is adjustable for bright and dark situations.
Since I probably won't ever take a deer at 100 yards with this thing (realistically I expect shots in the 30-50 yard range) I went with the red-dot.
I sighted in the gun at 20 yards in my back yard this morning with .44 Special ammo and got some pretty tight groups. I leaned the gun against my boat for stability but I should really set up a table to do it right.
I'll be shooting it tomorrow with my father-in-law. I'll probably let him try out the red-dot, but then I think I'll take it off and shoot it with iron sights.
My father-in-law was opposed to anybody owning a handgun but once he started shooting mine he had to have one. Earlier this week he found one he wanted and I went to the sale with him.
Since his rifle shoots .357 magnums he got a S&W 686 so he can shoot that caliber (and of course .38 specials).
I haven't shot his yet, but he's already planning on getting yer another handgun (he wants a .45 1911). Ha ha! I think I got him addicted.
Posted by Paul on May 25 2013,19:04
My father-in-law hated the idea of me removing the rosewood grips to put a polymer grip on.The new grips are fantastic though. I feel like I have a lot more control with the gun.
When I take the Ultra-Dot off I'll shoot some magnums through it. Magnums have quite a kick so I'm really curious to see how much better they make it.
I think that once my father-in-law feels how the polymer grips perform he'll convert to them as well.
His gun came with Hogue grips but he vowed never to use them because he loved the wood grips.
Posted by Paul on May 31 2013,20:28
Update: My father-in-law tried the grips and says that he still prefers the wood grips that came with his, but he will install polymer grips on his to see if the difference is as noticeable.I think the next step is that he'll keep the original grips in a drawer to preserve them.
Rubber grips work a lot better and cost a lot less than wood. They're just not as pretty.
Posted by GORDON on May 31 2013,20:29
Teabag his grips
Posted by Paul on May 31 2013,20:32
(GORDON @ May 31 2013,23:29)
QUOTE
Teabag his grips
I don't know how that even occurs to you.
(I mean, the obvious answer is to anally insert them, right?)
Posted by GORDON on May 31 2013,20:34
Because my mind is forever voyaging.
Posted by Paul on May 31 2013,21:11
You are a regular Donnie Darko.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Aug. 16 2014,12:58
Fun look back through time. My wife being intimidated by big guns is funny now. She wants a Desert Eagle (has fired one and loves it) and a rifle. Her specs "Which ever one has the most kick". She likes big guns.I GUESS THAT'S WHY SHE MARRIED ME!!!
Beat you to it.
And a reminder about the Obama rifle ban. Buy one now before it's too late and you wish you had. These things WILL be banned eventually. Considering buying that M&P just cause it's so cheap. Next time ban talk comes up, would turn a nice profit.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 16 2014,14:31
(Cakedaddy @ Aug. 16 2014,15:58)
QUOTE
She likes big guns.
I GUESS THAT'S WHY SHE MARRIED ME!!!
Beat you to it.
I GUESS THAT'S WHY SHE MARRIED ME!!!
Beat you to it.
Peeps always want what they can't have.
Posted by Paul on Aug. 16 2014,16:58
I'd love to have a .44 Desert Eagle. They just cost too much to justify the purchase.I've never shot a .50 handgun.
For target shooting I probably like 9mm's the best. The kick is minimal and the ammo is cheaper and easier to find than a lot of other calibers.
.22LR is cheapest but it feels like I'm shooting a cap gun.
If your wife likes a big recoil I'd look into a .357 snub nose. That'll kick, and if it's too much kick she can put .38 specials in it.
If a .357 won't cut it get a .44 magnum revolver. It was good enough for Dirty Harry. A shorter barrel will have more kick. You can always shoot .44 specials if she wants less kick.
< Those .50 Desert Eagles look like ass kickers. >
Posted by Cakedaddy on Aug. 16 2014,19:57
No, she wants a rifle with a lot of kick. Handgun, not so much. We rented a .50 Desert Eagle and it was REALLY fun. LOUD, holy geez. It's a really heavy gun though. So handling it wasn't too much different than some .45's we shot. There is more kick, but not much because of the weight of the gun. There is no justifying the purchase. Impractical for home defense, inaccurate and not very reliable. But damn, are they hot. And that's why you buy them. They are hot. We will end up with a used one at some point. At about $2/round, not fired that much either. But damn are they hot. Muzzle flash as big as a basketball.
Posted by Paul on Aug. 17 2014,09:01
A lot of kick is bad for accuracy.The recoil makes you lose sight of your target so you don't know what you hit so it's harder to make corrections for your next shot, and you have to find the target again which takes time.
Also, when you anticipate the recoil you tend tense up. Some people close their eyes before the shot, some yank the trigger really quick.
(That being said, I was once told "There is no recoil when you are hunting." I found that to be true. When a deer is in your sights the adrenaline and focus make recoil the farthest thing from your mind. So maybe, when it counts recoil won't be an issue.)
Also, big recoil usually means a bigger round which usually means they cost more and are more difficult to find ion stores. (More so for handguns than for rifles. A .30-06 is easy to find, biggest stuff won't be though.)
Plus, finding a place to shoot a big rifle is more difficult as some ranges (especially indoor ones) won't let you shoot them.
If she wants kick get a shotgun.
They're ideal for home protection.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 17 2014,11:50
"I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my eye."I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I shoot with my mind.
"I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."
Posted by Paul on Aug. 17 2014,15:51
I remember Roland not liking how fragile modern weapons were.He liked his (.45 Colt?) revolver.
I wonder what he'd have thought of the more powerful modern weapons like the .44 magnum, or .500?
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 17 2014,16:05
:-)
Posted by thibodeaux on Aug. 17 2014,16:08
< be sure to get some rubber bullets >To protect your ears.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 17 2014,16:11
(thibodeaux @ Aug. 17 2014,19:08)
QUOTE
< be sure to get some rubber bullets >
To protect your ears.
To protect your ears.
"And these water balloons have some sort of white goo in them."
Posted by Paul on Aug. 28 2014,17:56
< CCDW >