Thunderdome 2015 » Printable Version of Topic

Forum: General Stuff
Topic: Brussels Terror Attacks
started by: Leisher

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 22 2016,06:12

< Peace and tolerance in action. >

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,07:31

Van Damme was snoozing on the job.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,08:01

I only saw this on the news for 3 seconds in the gym but I assume it is islamic terrorists and to that I say IF ONLY someone could have foreseen problems with letting a bunch of muslims swarm into Europe. It's just one of those things you can never see coming.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 22 2016,09:59

Anthony Jeselnik just tweeted:

QUOTE

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- ISIS on Jean-Claude Van Damme

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,10:36

(Leisher @ Mar. 22 2016,11:59)

QUOTE

Anthony Jeselnik just tweeted:

QUOTE

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- ISIS on Jean-Claude Van Damme

Dude needs to stop relying on my original creative endeavours for his material.

Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 22 2016,14:49

I will admit in 2001 I wanted to bomb the fuck out of Mecca. But our policy for the last 15 years has been:

Fight terrorism by bombing and invading the MidEast, while showing we don't hate Muslims by letting them immigrate.

I think it's time to try this policy:
Fight terrorism by NOT letting Muslims immigrate, show we don't hate Muslims by NOT bombing and invading the MidEast.

If only there were a politician who was proposing that.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,15:14

QUOTE

If only there were a politician who was proposing that.

... who also exhibited a modicum of self-control and didn't sound like someone more suited for president of the "mescaline drinkers and crop circle enthusiasts" society. However:

1) There's a sizable segment of people who believe that us pulling out makes shit worse. "ISIS is what happened when we pulled out of Iraq." That includes me. We need to get a bit smarter about what we do over there. Unmanned drones carrying out targeted executions are a fine start. Bombs and missiles cost too much money, as do the planes, carriers, and subs that launch/fire them. I'm beginning to contemplate the fact that some countries are decades away from being a republic or democracy, and that's a cold, hard, brutal thing to admit. Once you do, your principles get less rigid and it's get easier to play one looney off another. Harsh as it sounds, I'd rather have ISIS drumming up insurgency in places besides the US, because fucking seriously, aren't there some other assholes over there they'll blow up? Pull out the troops and big hardware, set up another cloak-and-dagger war.

2) I don't mind Muslims coming into the country. I mind religious fundie psychos of any stripe trying to do so. I'm not sure how one could discriminate without persistent surveillance coupled with a long waiting period, or perhaps an extraordinarily thorough background check. Either way, such a thing is far beyond the current levels of competence shown by any federal agency.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 22 2016,15:31

The main problem I have with #2 is I don't like the government to make decisions about how to handle people based on what they might do. This isn't Minority Report. Punish them when they do do something, not because they might do something.

That does make it harder to protect ourselves from terrorists, but we can't go abandoning our ideals just because a bunch of terrorists want us to.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,15:34

They do believe in one of the invisible sky fathers, the flavor that has th most actively violent adherents.

As far as I'm concerned that demonstrates a danger.

And take "God" off the fucking money already. :-D

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,15:36

(TPRJones @ Mar. 22 2016,17:31)

QUOTE

The main problem I have with #2 is I don't like the government to make decisions about people based on how to handle people based on what they might do. This isn't Minority Report. Punish them when they do do something, not because they might do something.

That does make it harder to protect ourselves from terrorists, but we can't go abandoning our ideals just because a bunch of terrorists want us to.

We already kind of do that. The gov't can refuse citizenship to someone based on crimes committed and paid for in another country. They can refuse it because you fail the stupid-ass test. Our ideals include having standards for certain shit, outlined in the Bill of Rights. If you want the freedom to sacrifice virgins every solstice, lots of luck but you ain't getting in.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 22 2016,15:37

QUOTE

We already kind of do that.

Agreed. Doesn't make it right.

Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 22 2016,15:39

I honestly don't give a damn about what happens in the Mid East, as long as it stays there.

Pull out, and tell them they can cut each others throats, but if so much as one Kaffir throat is cut, we nuke Mecca.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,15:41

(TPRJones @ Mar. 22 2016,17:37)

QUOTE

We already kind of do that.

Agreed. Doesn't make it right.

It's an attempt to maintain quality control within the population. It's the same shit that laws do now. In general, we do not encourage murder, rape, and theft, and have a vested interest in keeping perpetrators of such things the fuck out before we waste money imprisoning them. If your beliefs are in conflict with that, then sayonara. It's not hard to swap out "murder, rape, and theft" with "violations of any of the amendments in the Constitution."

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,15:42

(Malcolm @ Mar. 22 2016,18:36)

QUOTE

(TPRJones @ Mar. 22 2016,17:31)

QUOTE

Can't drink two beers at dinner because you might cause an accident. Can't drive faster than the speed limit because you might... cause an accident.

There are tons of laws... many of them revenue generating... that are based on not doing a bad thing, but just because you might do a bad thing.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,15:47

QUOTE

There are tons of laws... many of them revenue generating

That's why I restricted my arguments to obvious cases, like < this dude > showing up on our doorstep. Actually, I'd let him in then explode the fuck out of him shortly thereafter (btw, he's loose because the some South American country cut him free). If we're keeping someone out because of unpaid traffic or parking tickets and the like, that's a dick move.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,15:48

(Malcolm @ Mar. 22 2016,18:47)

QUOTE

There are tons of laws... many of them revenue generating

That's why I restricted my arguments to obvious cases, like < this dude > showing up on our doorstep. Actually, I'd let him in then explode the fuck out of him shortly thereafter (Btw, he's loose because the some South American country cut him free). If we're keeping someone out because of unpaid traffic or parking tickets and the like, that's a dick move.

I think a country should be allowed to close its doors and say "Fuck off, we're full. Try again in a few years," without it being some massive immoral sin.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 22 2016,16:56

Sure, as long as it's not selective based on a protected class.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,16:58

(TPRJones @ Mar. 22 2016,19:56)

QUOTE

Sure, as long as it's not selective based on a protected class.

Are "mentally ill people who believe in gods" a protected class?

:-D

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 22 2016,17:03

Unfortunately, yes. I'd be happy to discuss classifying religion as a mental disorder and no longer a protected class, but I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,17:31

QUOTE

I think a country should be allowed to close its doors and say "Fuck off, we're full. Try again in a few years," without it being some massive immoral sin.

When I see wide open nothingness in joints like Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Kansas, etc., I think we've got the space. When I consider that space against a decent person or family coming from a truly shitty country that wants a shot at a better life and didn't win the "born in the first world" lottery, I'm not apt to say you can flat out deny them entry because of an imaginary "maximum occupancy" sign. I'd need to see population density go up in several states before I'd renege.

QUOTE

Are "mentally ill people who believe in gods" a protected class?

Yeah, but only because they founded the place and NOT doing that back in the day usually meant death.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,18:36

(Malcolm @ Mar. 22 2016,20:31)

QUOTE

...and didn't win the "born in the first world" lottery...

Was it John Kerry who used almost those exact words back when he was running for president?

It was some liberal.

Hippie.

I don't give a fuck about people who aren't willing to make their own homes better and want to bring their bullshit into my home.

Kids. We can take in the kids. But no one over the age of 7. They haven't been hardwired by crazy, yet.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,18:42

There are always, always going to be more poor people from shitty places who want in. It's impossible we will continue to be able to take them all in forever. Might as well stop now while the place is still half-way nice.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 22 2016,18:54

As I said, when population density gets higher, I'll listen. As of right now, we have 12 non-Alaskan states coming in at under 50 per sq. mile.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 22 2016,18:59

(Malcolm @ Mar. 22 2016,21:54)

QUOTE

As I said, when population density gets higher, I'll listen. As of right now, we have 12 non-Alaskan states coming in at under 50 per sq. mile.

Don't care.

Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 23 2016,01:08

Immigrants don't want to scrape out a life as a dirt farmer in scenic Wyoming and pass scenic dirt farming down to their children. If they did, they could stay in their own countries.

They want to go to New York Shitty, where the money is, and cram ten guys into a slum apartment on Misery St. so each can take home in a month what he earns in two years in Addis Ababa, so his kids have a shot at being vaccinated and learning a trade from the 20th century or better.

When there are real jobs in Wyoming, immigrants will flood into the state. Until then, it's a losing scratch-off ticket with three electoral votes.

Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2016,04:50

I don't have any objection to restricting immigration in ANY way. Exclusion based on religion, race, IQ, physiognomy...bring it on.

The reason shitty countries are shitty is because they're full of shitty people. Keep them out.

But let me make an argument that you might actually agree with:

I used to believe in the libertarian ideal of open borders. But, the problem is, we don't live in a libertarian state. We live in a welfare + surveillance police state. And immigrants (esp 3rd world ones) are, on average, even LESS libertarian than real Americans. So every immigrant we let in pushes even FURTHER from a libertarian state.

If we fix our existing problems, then fine. Until then, why invite in MORE people from, say, a culture where women are cattle? Why invite in MORE people from cultures with no history of liberty, of capitalism, of self-reliance? This does nothing to further the cause of liberty in the USA.

Yes, I get it: you don't want to discriminate. Well, fuck that. That's literally the last hill of libertarianism to die on. Fix taxation, fix the domestic spying, fix the other stuff, and THEN I'll be on your side on open borders.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 23 2016,04:55

(Alhazad @ Mar. 23 2016,04:08)

QUOTE

Addis Ababa

I'm wondering if you had to google to remember the exact country they said.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 23 2016,04:59

(thibodeaux @ Mar. 23 2016,07:50)

QUOTE

Shit, instead of a whitelist I suggest a complete blacklist filter, everyone stays out, unless they have a REALLY compelling skill that no un/underemployed person in the US has. "Willing to pick vegetables for 11 hours a day for minimum wage" is not a compelling skill.

And a really harsh deportation process. If your papers aren't 100% in order, you are put in a cell on a ship within the hour and you'd better hope your home country will take you back, otherwise you're getting dropped off on a Styrofoam noodle 200 yards off shore.

Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 23 2016,07:18

(GORDON @ Mar. 23 2016,04:59)

QUOTE

Until you post border guards outside maternity wards and senior homes and Tumblr too, what's the fucking point? At least in Liberia you can excuse yourself because your terrible leaders have all the guns -- we have a billion-dollar apparatus to deliver us the most unprincipled choads in the country so we can throw tailgate parties while they slap fight.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 23 2016,07:19

QUOTE

"Willing to pick vegetables for 11 hours a day for minimum wage" is not a compelling skill.

Maybe there's a reason those types of jobs weren't filled by present citizens.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 23 2016,08:00

Well, those vegetables aren't going to pick themselves, are they?

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 23 2016,08:04

(Malcolm @ Mar. 23 2016,10:19)

QUOTE

"Willing to pick vegetables for 11 hours a day for minimum wage" is not a compelling skill.

Maybe there's a reason those types of jobs weren't filled by present citizens.

Don't care. One cruise missile on a corrupt presidential palace is cheaper than putting a family of economic refugees on welfare for 50 years and 3 generations.

I use those numbers because that is what I am told the excuse for black people in America is... they were denied access to the ladder for so long and they haven't figured out how to climb it yet, 52 years after the Civil Rights Act was passed, because white people are evil.

Well white people are still evil, so more likely than not an unskilled immigrant family is going to be on welfare for at least 3 generations. I just won the whole internet with that argument.

Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 23 2016,08:18

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 23 2016,11:22

That cartoon is amazing in it's honesty.

< Social warriors quick to condemn #stopislam hastag after Brussels terrorist attack. >

So if you're keeping score at home, here's how this works:

-Muslims continue to commit acts of terror, but we CANNOT condemn all Muslims. That would be unfair and racist and all the other PC things you can apply to it. "Not all Muslims are terrorists. Just the Muslim extremists."

-If a guy or gal with a handgun walks into a school or office here in the U.S. and shoots someone, then ALL gun owners are violent sociopaths, and ALL Americans shouldn't have a gun, and the NRA is a terrorist organization, and all right wing people are blood thirsty and support these shootings by supporting Republicans.

Hopefully, that clears things up for everyone.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 23 2016,13:19

Yes, yes, their views are inconsistent. But then the other side is equally as inconsistent.

-Muslims are bad as a group and all must be kept out (even though only a small number are bad)

-Gun owners continue to kill people, but we CANNOT condemn all gun owners.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 24 2016,07:58

That's a fair counterpoint.

However, do Muslims require background checks? Have they had their addresses posted in the local paper? Do they have to register with local law enforcement? If you commit a felony can you no longer be Muslim?

Also, a lot of these mass shootings have been committed by people who weren't gun owners, yet gun owners still get blamed. If Mormons bombed whatever arena the Utah Jazz play in, would Muslims still be blamed? (After it was proven to be Mormons...)

Are gun owners openly committing acts of violence against non-gun owners who speak out against them? Are they relocating to non-gun owning neighborhoods and attempting to force everyone there to buy a gun?

I realize we can go back and forth on this tomato/tomatoe thing all day. I'm not in favor of a massive ban on Muslims or anything like that, but at the same time I think it's ridiculous that everyone is supposed to pretend that their isn't a major issue in the Muslim community that's resulting in a lot of lost lives.

It's the same criticism I have with the black community here in the U.S. Jesse and Al are quick to jump in front of cameras and condemn racism every chance they get, yet we ignore that black people kill more black people each year than all other groups combined. We're not supposed to talk about that. We're not supposed to talk about black people's contributions to the slave trade or that people of all creeds and colors have been slaves or that slaves exist to this day. We're not supposed to discuss how black culture here in the U.S. celebrates violence, guns, drugs, etc. We're not supposed to discuss how more white people are killed by cops annually than black people or how black people have actually been over-represented at the Oscars and Hispanic/Asians are really the ones being left out, etc., etc., etc.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 24 2016,08:10

If you want to ban all people professing any religion, I think that would be a bit much but I wouldn't argue. But to focus on one religion you would need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of those professing that religion are guilty of committing violent acts. And they just aren't. It's a small minority. Prove that wrong and I may end up agreeing with you. But you can't because it's just not so.

As to not talking about things, I'm with you there. The societal censorship pressures growing over the past few years is not just unAmerican, it's going to cause all sorts of problems in the long run. And it's entirely hypocritical by those that are using it as a weapon.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 24 2016,09:29

QUOTE

If you want to ban all people professing any religion

To be clear, I don't.

QUOTE

I'm not in favor of a massive ban on Muslims or anything like that,

However, the burying our heads in sand and pretending __ in certain groups is an anomaly has to end.

In related news and in the wake of the Brussels bombings, < Poland tells refugees to fuck off. >

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 24 2016,09:41

QUOTE

To be clear, I don't.

I didn't think you did.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 24 2016,10:03

I do.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 24 2016,10:20

I know.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 24 2016,10:21

(GORDON @ Mar. 24 2016,12:03)

QUOTE

I do.

A ban, no? That's a bit harsh. Eligibility for public office is another matter when your life's rules come from the almighty, who also conveniently asks you to believe in a shitload of impossible things that happened mysteriously in the past but have dropped off in frequency since the modern age started ramping up.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 24 2016,10:22

(Leisher @ Mar. 24 2016,12:29)

QUOTE

If you want to ban all people professing any religion

To be clear, I don't.

QUOTE

I'm not in favor of a massive ban on Muslims or anything like that,

However, the burying our heads in sand and pretending __ in certain groups is an anomaly has to end.

In related news and in the wake of the Brussels bombings, < Poland tells refugees to fuck off. >

I know. I was just making it clear for anyone who read my point.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 24 2016,10:42

(Malcolm @ Mar. 24 2016,13:21)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Mar. 24 2016,12:03)

QUOTE

I do.

I think it's a public health issue.

That part in Contact always irritates me, whats her face is being interviewed to get the seat on the Machine, and her bfriend asks her if she believes in God. She pretty much says no. One of the panelists asks, "Are you saying that 90% of the human race suffers from a delusion?" And I wish she'd just have said, "Hell yes I do."

And then there's the public health issue of all the severed limbs when the hardcore members of the faith make sure to pack their bombs with nails and broken glass.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 24 2016,10:51

QUOTE

~~That part in~~ Contact always irritates me

Me, too.

QUOTE

...there's the public health issue of all the severed limbs when the hardcore members of the faith make sure to pack their bombs with nails and broken glass.

That applies to any number of psychos. If someone feels the need to lash out at everyone else, any excuse will do.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 24 2016,13:23

(Malcolm @ Mar. 24 2016,13:51)

QUOTE

~~That part in~~ Contact always irritates me

Me, too.

QUOTE

...there's the public health issue of all the severed limbs when the hardcore members of the faith make sure to pack their bombs with nails and broken glass.

That applies to any number of psychos. If someone feels the need to lash out at everyone else, any excuse will do.

It's unfortunate their clerics are so enabling of those psychos.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 24 2016,14:23

It's unfortunate that death and the false promise of a paradise afterlife seems preferable to actual life in a number of circumstances. The middlemen you're describing are simply better at harnessing that frustration that anyone else at the moment. Some of them ask for your life, some your death, others money. Fucktards of that ilk wield faith like a sword and shield.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 24 2016,15:44

It's all bullshit, and your defense of bullshit is bullshit.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 24 2016,18:04

(GORDON @ Mar. 24 2016,17:44)

QUOTE

It's all bullshit, and your defense of bullshit is bullshit.

You're proposing you can win against the 90%? You objectively have no way to know if there's a god/jeebus/FSM/super alien race that is for all intents and purposes a supreme being relative to you. If someone feels like believing in it and dedicating some of their life to it, within reason, I'm not arguing. Mentally ill or not, they have a nonzero chance of being right. Your assertion they're absolutely wrong is bullshit.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 24 2016,18:06

They are absolutely wrong.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 24 2016,21:55

I won't say they are absolutely wrong, but I feel any religion is about as likely to be true as there is to be a giant angry Lobster in orbit around Saturn that created us and shapes our destinies. That's no less absurd and no more likely than any other spiritual crap. But anything is possible.

Possible or not I see no need to list all the infinite possibilities - including all religions - that are unlikely to the point of absurdity.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 25 2016,04:43

I mean I don't have the logic skillz to prove that I'm right but I feel very smug about the fact no one is going to prove me wrong.

As time goes on I start to wonder if religion is doing more harm than good. It was all well and good when the main religion around here espoused "love thy neighbor/turn the other cheek" even if most of them weren't good at following it. Now we have the "small majority" of "kill all infidels and those who would insult the prophet," and unfortunately when they blow their K:D ratio is better than 10:1. They'd be pros in Team Fortress 2.

And what do you do about it? I don't know. You'd need perfect awareness to keep the poor oppressed people from meeting in secret to read from the magic book and pray as a group to gandalf, and you just can't do it.

Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 25 2016,05:18

(GORDON @ Mar. 25 2016,04:43)

QUOTE

And what do you do about it? I don't know. You'd need perfect awareness to keep the poor oppressed people from meeting in secret to read from the magic book and pray as a group to gandalf, and you just can't do it.

Any human worldview that arises from powerlessness is cured by power. People are interested in religion only insofar as they need to feel a sense of control over an antipathetic world. When they can defend against bad luck through education, technology, and government instead, religions become toothless.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 25 2016,05:22

(Alhazad @ Mar. 25 2016,08:18)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Mar. 25 2016,04:43)

QUOTE

But I think it can't work, there's always, always going to be the "small majority" who can't or won't rise above the need for religion, and there will always be the scoundrels who take advantage of these people for their own power.

Short of wholesale eugenics of everyone so inclined to believe in gods, I don't think there is a fix for humanity. As such, we shouldn't allow them to come. We can keep this corner of the world nice for as long as we can, even though it can't last forever.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 25 2016,07:23

QUOTE

As time goes on I start to wonder if religion is doing more harm than good.

Yank it away and watch what happens. Let's imagine that's even possible, to kill beliefs in a permanent sense. It's not a mistake that there are billions of adherents in the world. Taking it away would be like jolting someone out of the matrix. Perhaps they have a permanent inferiority complex, which seems understandable since humans have only been the dominant species for a few seconds in terms of evolutionary time, and their brains only function if they're working for someone else.

QUOTE

When they can defend against bad luck through education, technology, and government instead, religions become toothless.

All those wealthy, Western Scientologists disagree.

QUOTE

there's always, always going to be the "small majority" who can't or won't rise above the need for religion, and there will always be the scoundrels who take advantage of these people for their own power.

I can replace religion with almost anything. Money, fame, prestige, security for one's family, shitty, lying politicians running on platforms of falsehoods, etc.

Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 25 2016,11:14

(Malcolm @ Mar. 25 2016,07:23)

QUOTE

Let's imagine that's even possible, to kill beliefs in a permanent sense.

If you check Russia, you can see that it's quite possible. But there are some... growing pains associated with it.

QUOTE

When they can defend against bad luck through education, technology, and government instead, religions become toothless.

All those wealthy, Western Scientologists disagree.

Can't count the number of Scientologists who walk into Israeli movie theaters and pop. Hang on, that's not right. Didn't they infiltrate the U.S. government and launch a nuke that hit Mexico City, killing millions? Oh, they just stole paperwork? Nevermind.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 25 2016,11:30

QUOTE

Oh, they just stole paperwork? Nevermind.

No, they've had people murdered and tortured.

Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 25 2016,11:48

(Malcolm @ Mar. 25 2016,11:30)

QUOTE

Oh, they just stole paperwork? Nevermind.

No, they've had people murdered and tortured.

Not during Operation Snow White, but I'll grant that they have. Let's < tot up > their score compared to other religions. Since they haven't had as much history, we can use their per-year score.

...

Oh look, they're toothless. And they will continue to be as long as they target countries where widespread public education exists. I'm sure if I were relative to one of the schizos or crazies that Scientology boondoggled I'd consider them very dangerous, but... kangaroos kill more people.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 25 2016,11:53

Oh fuck that. All the other religious came of age during times when putting mofos to the sword was an accepted means of resolving 90% of legal disputes.

Posted by Alhazad on Mar. 25 2016,12:04

(Malcolm @ Mar. 25 2016,11:53)

QUOTE

Oh fuck that. All the other religious came of age during times when putting mofos to the sword was an accepted means of resolving 90% of legal disputes.

Exactly my point, dude. When you have schools and doctors and police and appellate courts, you don't need Cu Chulainn to inspire you to victory over the heathens on the field of war.

Any religion that arises in a first-world society is emaciated by default because there isn't enough of the pie left, no matter how vicious it would be if unchecked.

Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 26 2016,05:12

< I can't believe this was in the Guardian >

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 26 2016,09:03

Something tells me they're leaving the EU later this year.