Topic: Breastfeeding in public
started by: GORDON
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 22 2015,19:06
Yeah, generally I don't have a problem with it. I (and my kid) have been around dozens of discretely breastfeeding women, scores even, without seeing boob or being phased by it. But let me throw a scenario at you that happened today:The annual 3-day cub scout daycamp is happening today through the rest of the week. For 3 or 4 years in a row I was a pack leader, making sure the boys got to where they were supposed to be, making sure they didn't drown or get eaten by bears, help them identify the poison ivy, make sure they had their lunch, etc. This year I decided I was done with other peoples' shitmonster kids so I declined to volunteer, and my kid isn't even there this time. But there are other adults from our clique, there.
So at midday it is time for an hour of swimming, followed by lunch. The swimming hole is a giant, flooded rock quarry with a beachy area, and 250 cubscouts having a great time splashing around.
The youngest scouts, the 6 and 7 year olds, are required to be accompanied by a parent. And that's fine. Scouts ages 8-12 can be there on their own, answerable to the pack leader (what I was doing), but parents can still tag along, if they want. There was one such parent there, today, with her older child.
She also brought an infant, which you are asked to not do... there is a "tot lot" for 2 ---> 5 year old siblings of the scouts if there's no other child care available, and that's fine, too. It's basically daycare in a big tent in a park. But this baby was too young for that, so the mom was dragging the infant around with the group. It was being tolerated even though it was a fucking infant at cub scout camp, because we try to not be too uptight with the rules.... oftentimes little sisters are there with the scouts having fun and, again, nbd.
Anyway, during the swimming time, this woman whips off her shirt, both boobies bare, and starts breastfeeding the baby, in front of 250 boys ages 6-11, and a handful of older, teen boyscouts. No cover-up. One of my wife's friends confronted her, asking her if she was retarded or just stupid (not really, but if you know this woman, that would have been the gist of whatever she said). It became a confrontation, and the head of the camp had to have words with her to tell her to not show her boobs to a couple hundred little boys, because for some reason that never occurred to her, and I am really curious to see what happens with this all tomorrow. My first thought was that she was looking to start a controversy, but we'll see.
Before you ask, yes, I asked if she was hot and whether or not there were pics, and I was told no, she is frumpy, and "earthy," and pretty much a hippie, which means she probably also had B.O.
So, thoughts? Is it cool for an ugly woman to whip out her tits in front of a bunch of little boys and latch a baby onto her nipple? And would it be more OK if she was attractive?
tl;dr - Woman whipped out both boobs in front of a couple hundred boyscouts in order to breastfeed, and made no effort to be discrete
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 22 2015,19:16
(GORDON @ Jul. 22 2015,22:06)
QUOTE
So, thoughts? Is it cool for an ugly woman to whip out her tits in front of a bunch of little boys and latch a baby onto her nipple? And would it be more OK if she was attractive?
I really have no issue with it. I have no problem with toplessness. I definitely have no problem with breast feeding in public.
And it'd be better than OK if she were hot.
Posted by TPRJones on Jul. 22 2015,20:15
This is one of those things where I'm fine with it in the general case, but in the particulars some discretion would be preferred. It'd be nice to live in a society where no one was bothered by this sort of thing, but we don't. Fight for your right to breastfeed, sure, but maybe doing so at a place that is at that time specifically hosting an event for hordes of young boys is not the best place to do so yet.tl;dr: Given the particulars I'm not offended but I would absolutely expect many other people to be and think this woman is either selfishly inconsiderate or a complete idiot for not expecting that.
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 23 2015,02:22
There's nothing magical about breasts.That said, the Boy Scouts are a Christian religious organization -- this dumb bitch basically took her tits out at church camp.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 23 2015,04:47
I'm okay with it as long as they're trying to be somewhat discreet. I don't think they need to do it in hiding, but this woman sounds like she was more concerned with making a statement than she was with feeding her kid.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 23 2015,06:41
I have absolutely zero issue with women breast feeding in public. Baby gotta eat and I've never seen a woman who wasn't discreet about it. Nor do I have an issue with her bringing the infant. It happens. Don't punish the rest of her kids because she couldn't get a sitter. (Although, she should be extra aware that she's potentially causing an issue that would disrupt other people's day and should be very polite about it.)
That all being said, I have a problem with her behavior in this situation. I'm not personally offended, but what she did was wrong.
If she were to just walk up and flash those boys her tits, it'd be illegal.
If she showed those boys a picture of her tits, it'd be illegal.
So how is this situation different aside from feeding a baby? I'm not allowing that distinction because she was so brazen with her display.
Why does she need to pop both tits out in front of all those kids and parents to feed a single baby? She knew she'd be breast feeding. She can't wear a button down shirt and bring a towel, which anyone whose ever had a baby carries with them in a diaper bag? I've never seen a woman pop both tits out to breast feed. My own wife at home with just me there didn't do that.
IMHO, this woman is either a complete social retard or wanted the thrill of everyone looking at her tits. I strongly lean towards the latter.
Ask every woman in your life if they would be aware of other people in the area if they were about to breast feed and I assure you that every single one of them would say "yes".
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 23 2015,07:10
It's legal for women to display their tits in Ohio.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 23 2015,07:56
(TheCatt @ Jul. 23 2015,10:10)
QUOTE
It's legal for women to display their tits in Ohio.
< From here. >
QUOTE
New York, Hawaii, Maine, Ohio, and Texas are unique in that they each have laws expressly allowing women to go topless in any location where men could do so legally.
However, the general rule appears to be:
QUOTE
OHIO
* § 2907.09 Public Indecency.
(A) No person shall recklessly do any of the following, under circumstances in which the person’s conduct is likely to be viewed by and affront others who are in the person’s physical proximity and who are not members of the person’s household:
(1) Expose his or her private parts.
* § 2907.09 Public Indecency.
(A) No person shall recklessly do any of the following, under circumstances in which the person’s conduct is likely to be viewed by and affront others who are in the person’s physical proximity and who are not members of the person’s household:
(1) Expose his or her private parts.
I was told recently that apparently Toledo strip clubs no longer allow women to be topless either. They wear pasties.
Also, I'd still bet that showing your tits to little kids is not legal.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 23 2015,08:04
(Leisher @ Jul. 23 2015,10:56)
QUOTE
Also, I'd still bet that showing your tits to little kids is not legal.
QUOTE
New York, Hawaii, Maine, Ohio, and Texas are unique in that they each have laws expressly allowing women to go topless in any location where men could do so legally.
So you are wrong.
Private parts applies to baby making parts, as far as I can tell, given the above. So she can't go bottomless.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 23 2015,08:13
QUOTE
So you are wrong.
In this particular instance, she could get off on a technicality, but why don't you bring your wife to Ohio and have her show her tits to little kids at beaches and we'll see how well that goes over.
And how ridiculously fucked up is it that a woman can sit topless in front of children at a beach, but can't dance naked topless in front of consenting adults?
Also, my original point was about intent. I believe she intended to show her tits off for the thrill. Yeah, kids were there, but (hopefully) it was more about showing them to the adults.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 23 2015,08:19
(Leisher @ Jul. 23 2015,11:13)
QUOTE
And how ridiculously fucked up is it that a woman can sit topless in front of children at a beach, but can't dance naked topless in front of consenting adults?
Exceptionally.
QUOTE
Also, my original point was about intent. I believe she intended to show her tits off for the thrill. Yeah, kids were there, but (hopefully) it was more about showing them to the adults.
Hard to prove intent.
I'd default to what she did was inappropriate-ish, but only cuz Americans are such prudes.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 23 2015,08:40
QUOTE
Hard to prove intent.
Yes, it is. Even knowing that 98% of all women don't feel "hot" after child birth and wouldn't normally want to show off their tits to little kids (not even euros), you can't technically prove she wanted to do so.
QUOTE
but only cuz Americans are such prudes.
Our prudishness gets ripped a lot, but as a retired male whore I'm in favor of it.
I don't want to get into it at the moment as I have to go hook up a Sharp Smartboard, but I could post a really long winded (I know, shocker) rant about why our prudishness trumps the more laid back attitude of Euros.
I will say that we're not at the point where we have to shit on each other to get off because we're so desensitized to everything else...
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 23 2015,08:46
QUOTE
but I could post a really long winded (I know, shocker) rant about why our prudishness trumps the more laid back attitude of Euros.
Bah. Titties make this country go psychotic. We give them shock value. It's extraordinarily stupid.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 23 2015,09:35
(Malcolm @ Jul. 23 2015,11:46)
QUOTE
QUOTE
but I could post a really long winded (I know, shocker) rant about why our prudishness trumps the more laid back attitude of Euros.
Bah. Titties make this country go psychotic. We give them shock value. It's extraordinarily stupid.
Pshh. If I gotta go to war for a word, then my word is poontang.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 23 2015,11:28
(Malcolm @ Jul. 23 2015,11:46)
QUOTE
QUOTE
but I could post a really long winded (I know, shocker) rant about why our prudishness trumps the more laid back attitude of Euros.
Bah. Titties make this country go psychotic. We give them shock value. It's extraordinarily stupid.
I disagree to a point.
Yes, they have shock value to the morality police, and those people are idiots.
However, I would argue they need to be treated with more respect. They need to be looked upon as special items we only get to see on semi-rare occasions.
Why?
<
This is why. >
Keep making sex and intimacy less of a sacred thing and we'll be a nation of clowns like this asshole or his wife and we've all be shitting on each other and buying soiled underwear out of vending machines.
Respect the titty!
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 23 2015,11:31
That dude is insane. Desensitization to tits isn't his core problem.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 23 2015,11:40
But that's why I added the rest. Certain cultures have lost so much respect for women's sexuality that they need to go to extremes to get off. I remember years ago reading something about Jake "the Snake" Roberts (of all people) talking about how he'd be on the road having threesomes and being with women willing to do anything, and then going home and trying to make love to his wife and his dick not responding.
I think feminists who fight for their right to show off their titties are actually doing themselves a disservice. They're literally trying to give away the power of their breasts and their sexuality.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 23 2015,11:44
(Leisher @ Jul. 23 2015,13:40)
QUOTE
I think feminists who fight for their right to show off their titties are actually doing themselves a disservice. They're literally trying to give away the power of their breasts and their sexuality.
Not my problem, let 'em.
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 23 2015,18:59
Seeing isn't touching, and tits aren't the only sexy part of a woman. Jake the Snake's problem is that he was so famous he could fuck 9s and 10s in the nostril and have them thank him, not that he saw a sub-par nipple on the street once a week.Hard to have social equality and hold everyone to a standard when one of the sexes is perceived to have magical powers. Debunk the tits.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 23 2015,19:09
I think my opinion is that it wasn't this woman's job to demystify tits for a couple hundred cub scouts at camp, in the same way it isn't her job to go around and tell these kids that Santa doesn't exist. It doesn't take a fucking village to raise a child, let the parents be in charge of their own kids.Today there was an entirely different problem with a special needs kid not being accommodated, whom I took care of in years past because he was in my group. Seems like things are going to hell without me. Poor kid is 10 and has rheumatoid arthritis and other problems and loves playing with the other kids and being active, but his Mom tells me that he pays for it at night when the pain comes and he spends all night screaming. I always made sure, when possible, he had a golf cart to go from activity to activity to save him some walking. But anyway, whoever is running his group had a problem with him having to use the restroom frequently and he pissed his pants. Grrr.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 23 2015,19:20
QUOTE
I think my opinion is that it wasn't this woman's job to demystify tits for a couple hundred cub scouts at camp, in the same way it isn't her job to go around and tell these kids that Santa doesn't exist.
Not to be a dick, but just to be a dick:
1) She's not the one that mystified them in the first place.
2) I've told both my brothers, "Don't ever let your kids ask me about Santa or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy or anything like that. Homey don't play that."
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 23 2015,19:30
I'm sure it's possible to avoid building up the mystique if mom has her tits out around the house like it ain't no thing, but once socializing starts and the child doesn't see anyone else doing it, he'll pick up the bullshit magical thinking real quick. This is one of the things that does take a village.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 24 2015,04:45
I have a feeling that if you guys were in charge of the local cub scout pack, there wouldn't be anyone in the local cub scout pack.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 24 2015,06:42
(GORDON @ Jul. 24 2015,07:45)
QUOTE
I have a feeling that if you guys were in charge of the local cub scout pack, there wouldn't be anyone in the local cub scout pack.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2015,07:13
(GORDON @ Jul. 24 2015,06:45)
QUOTE
I have a feeling that if you guys were in charge of the local cub scout pack, there wouldn't be anyone in the local cub scout pack.
Yeah ... "cub scout" is kind of weak. I think I'd go with "Tiger Rangers" or "Lion Asskickers."
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 24 2015,08:58
(GORDON @ Jul. 24 2015,07:45)
QUOTE
I have a feeling that if you guys were in charge of the local cub scout pack, there wouldn't be anyone in the local cub scout pack.
I laughed.
And Malcolm, if your brothers' kids ask you about Santa, you play along. You'd have to be the world's biggest piece of shit to hurt a child like that and go against your brothers' wishes.
White lies are a part of life like telling your wife she doesn't look fat as she waddles around 9 months pregnant.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2015,09:39
They were warned for a reason. Lying to a child's bad, unless it's about imaginary beings, then it's good ... unless it ends up giving them nightmares, then I guess that's bad. See, I forget how all the fucked up social rules work. It's simply easier not to lie to them and credit the proper people.
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 24 2015,11:03
It prevents arguments with the child by divesting the gift-giving decision to a remote entity who can only be placated with the correct conduct. Couldn't be simpler.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 24 2015,12:35
Man you make parenting sound easy. You must have raised a lot of kids to have that kind of wisdom!
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2015,13:03
Indeed. Christ forbid the kids know the gifts came from the hard work and financial savvy of their parents instead of some fictitious, old fat guy with magical reindeer and elves that pulls a B&E on your house annually through the chimney and spends the rest of his time living in his workshop in a frozen wasteland.
Posted by TPRJones on Jul. 24 2015,13:05
But Malcolm, the older they are before they learn the truth about Santa and the Easter Bunney et al the more likely they are to have the faculties to supply the same leap of logic to religion.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2015,13:08
QUOTE
"I was over in Australia during easter, which was intersting. Interesting to note they celebrate Easter the same way we do; commemorating the death and resurrection of Jesus by telling our children a giant bunny rabbit left chocolate eggs in the night.
Now, I wonder why we're fucked up as a race, anybody? Anybody got any clues out there?
Where do you get this shit from you know? Why those two things you know? Why not ‘Goldfish left Lincoln Logs in your sock drawer’ you know? As long as we’re making shit up, go hog wild you know. At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on it's back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous conotation to it.
'Mummy, I woke today and there was a Lincoln Log in me sock drawer!'.
'That's the story of Jesus'.
Who comes up with this shit?! I’ve read the Bible. I can’t find the words ‘bunny’ or ‘chocolate’ anywhere in that fucking book".
Now, I wonder why we're fucked up as a race, anybody? Anybody got any clues out there?
Where do you get this shit from you know? Why those two things you know? Why not ‘Goldfish left Lincoln Logs in your sock drawer’ you know? As long as we’re making shit up, go hog wild you know. At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on it's back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous conotation to it.
'Mummy, I woke today and there was a Lincoln Log in me sock drawer!'.
'That's the story of Jesus'.
Who comes up with this shit?! I’ve read the Bible. I can’t find the words ‘bunny’ or ‘chocolate’ anywhere in that fucking book".
- Bill Hicks
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2015,14:20
(GORDON @ Jul. 24 2015,14:35)
QUOTE
Man you make parenting sound easy. You must have raised a lot of kids to have that kind of wisdom!
You daring me to have a kid, bring the Antichrist into the world, and cause the Apocalypse? Damien Thorn wouldn't have shit on him.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 24 2015,18:43
For the first time ever, I now truly believe it is a good thing that some people aren't having kids.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2015,18:56
The ability to recognize and call out bullshit can never be taught too early.Let's check this Xmas/Santa thing. It's not enough to have your family together, everyone expressing they give a fuck with time and gifts. They have to be delivered by a red-suited git with varying assistants depending on the country you're in.
Just say, "Here you go kid, we pooled cash for a year to get all this because we care.". You want mystery and wonder? Explain how the solar system works. Explain what your circulatory system does. Isn't there enough wonder fucking around you already? You need a tubby teamster tossing trinkets under a tinseled tree?
It amazes me how much people will bitch consumerism has displaced the family during the holidays. The family gives away credit to mythical beings.
You want a mass delusion to believe in with everyone else? Try world peace.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 24 2015,19:36
I'm not even going to try to argue that it is fun for kids to believe in magic for a while while they are young.
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 24 2015,20:02
(GORDON @ Jul. 24 2015,18:43)
QUOTE
For the first time ever,
Bullshit.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 24 2015,20:07
(GORDON @ Jul. 24 2015,21:36)
QUOTE
I'm not even going to try to argue that it is fun for kids to believe in magic for a while while they are young.
You have magic to believe in when you're old, too. Karma, homoepathic medicine, reincarnation, dark matter/energy, that your vote matters, psychic mediums, ghosts, ancient aliens, ad nauseum.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 24 2015,20:29
