Thunderdome 2015 » Printable Version of Topic » WHAT ARE YOUR PREPPER PLANS

Forum: General Stuff
Topic: WHAT ARE YOUR PREPPER PLANS
started by: GORDON

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 03 2014,17:42

Shit goes to hell. EMP strike, no more gasoline, strategic nukes go off in 10 American cities, whatever. No more food is getting from farm to market, civil order is breaking down, and dark clouds are on the horizon.

What are you prepared for?

What are you prepared to do?

And use reality. Don't just say, "Go to my neighbor and rob him of all his food" unless you have the firepower and the will to use it.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 03 2014,17:47

Probably die in the nuke on the Port of Houston.

But if Houston is not nuked, then there's two possibilities. One is to hunker down here. There's an office building around the corner that is built like it's set up to withstand an armored assault. I know several nearby locations that regularly get Sparklett's water delivery to hit for that, and there's tons of food all around here. My main problem will be dealing with other humans in this urban environment, but fortunately most of them will be dumb enough to hop in their cars and get stuck on the interstate. I don't have firepower, but I do have the will to use what I can find and a decent sword to get me started.

If that doesn't look to be likely to work out depending on the circumstances, I try to make my way to the mountains of New Mexico where my folks have a survival bunker set up and waiting.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 03 2014,17:49

Wow... a little TPR backstory... he has survivalist parents. Now I am picturing that couple from Tremors as your parents.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 03 2014,17:54

Heh. Not exactly. Dad's a nuclear scientist (retired) and my step-mom was a psychologist turned small-business owner. They're only part-time survivalists, and mostly gave it up by the mid-00s. They still have the bunker, though, and like to live in a bus from time to time when they aren't busy scuba-diving in Thailand or Hawaii.

Even at their peak they were, like 50% survivalist and 50% hippies.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 03 2014,17:58

On a similar note, this is one of the second birthday gifts I gave to my god-daughter; a charm bracelet to teach her what she needs to survive the zombie apocalypse.

Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 03 2014,18:19

I would do anything to keep my family alive, but I have no weapons... so, yeah.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 03 2014,18:44

We typically have enough food in the house to hunker down for a month, depending on the time of year, to perhaps lose a few pounds, but we would not be malnourished. Late Spring we have the least as all the stuff I preserved the previous Summer/Autumn is about used up.

Have enough lumber on hand to build false walls here and there, hide what I want to hide.

I am ashamed to say I have no firearms, mostly because they are an expense I have not yet felt justified in spending.... seems like there is always something that has to be fixed in this old house. I do, however, have an unkbill about 400 yards away with an assortment of shotguns, muzzle loaders, and hand guns. I assume he wouldn't shoot me on sight, and would loan me one.

This doomsday scenario would be worse if it hit America in, say, March.... no crops in the field yet. I probably have more kin in this small town than anyone else.... one assumes we could band together. Safety in numbers.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 03 2014,18:47

I also have an invite to a compound in the Ozarks that was never rescinded, wink. I'd head there if we had to leave the area and it was the best option. I would definitely not want to live in this region without a steady source of heat in the winter.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Mar. 03 2014,18:49

Head for the wilderness. Where ever food lives and people don't. Primary early objective would be securing a jeep of some kind and stock piling gas to get to the wilderness. Live in the jeep while building a house.

My biggest fear would be that real life would become just like Rust (or any other MMO). Half the people you meet will want to kill you. The other half wouldn't. But you'd pretty much have to shoot everyone to avoid being shot.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 03 2014,18:53

We keep probably 1-2 months of food on hand here. At least a half tank of gas in all our vehicles at all times. Unless it's an EMP that takes out the cars, we plan to drive to my dad's place in western Ky. He has about 400 acres of timber land that we can hunt off of. I have non GMO seeds up there and he keeps his own garden every year. We started canning this past summer. Want to get semi good at that.

In the event of an EMP, we have the shortest distance map to Covington where we'd pick up the rails to follow to my dad's. We could pick it up here in town, but we'd have to travel to, and stay in, a pretty bad area for some miles going that route.

Plenty of firearms here and at my dad's. Building an AR-15 because it sounded like a good time.

If we have to bug out of Memphis, the lizard cages get opened and the back door left cracked open and the reptiles are on their own.

Hoping to spend some time at my dad's this year doing stuff like building a chicken coop and a green house and what-not.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 03 2014,19:00

I thought your Dad's was in the Ozarks.

You're going to need to send me an updated map. ;)

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 03 2014,19:19

Truth be told it depends on the time of year. If it's summer and the A/C goes out, I'll probably just curl up and sweat to death. So hot.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 03 2014,20:21

Loot the fuck out of the mini-shopping center across the street. Loot the everloving fuck out of the Mall of America. I can be there in under 20 minutes and they have 10 of every goddamned thing imaginable there. You'd need an army to secure it.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,04:25

(GORDON @ Mar. 03 2014,21:00)

QUOTE

I thought your Dad's was in the Ozarks.

You're going to need to send me an updated map. ;)

You're thinking of my mom's house. She has a house at the foot of the Ozarks. Not any land to speak of, though.

Posted by Paul on Mar. 04 2014,06:27

Like most people I have a months worth of food around the house.

Coincidentally I went through my bug out bag a few days ago. I'd pilfered it for rice awhile back and had to restock it.
It has a water purification straw, those shiny reflective blankets (and a Snuggie), a brown tarp, para cord, bottles of water, dry packets of soup, some canned goods, a tiny folding stove with a half-dozen fuel canisters, a Swiss Army knife, instant noodles, plastic utensils, fire striker/matches/lighter, bags of instant rice (pre-measured, in zip-top bags), medical supplies, and a probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting about.
It's heavy.

Last summer when I told my brother about the bug out bag he said, "What do you need that for? You live where I'd flee to!"
He had a good point. It's unlikely that I'd have to flee to anywhere.
Heck, my house has a cistern so I can use that water, assuming that fallout doesn't reach me.

I don't own assault weapons but have some firearms to hunt and defend the homestead with.
I got into reloading so I have a good supply .44 magnum rounds laying around, and I have the supplies to make a lot more. My father-in-law has about the same supply for his .357 magnum (which also does .38 Special).
I should probably get more ammo for my carry/conceal weapon.

I bought some bricks of .22LR ammo a couple year ago, before the ammo crisis.
In fact, I bought the specifically because a friend told me how, if there was a bad situation like Gordon described, that .22LR will be a highly sought after item and can be used as currency. My bricks of 500 rounds come in 10, 50-round boxes.

Hunting is going to dry up very quickly. I've talked about this with a wildlife biologist that I used to date.
Right now there is regulated pressure on wildlife, but when people get hungry most of the game will be gone within the first year.

I own 45 acres but little of it is good for farming. I guess I could turn the front and back lawns into gardens but sadly I lack heirloom seeds. Those would be good to have.

I'm friendly with neighbors who own farms, so I'm sure I'll be alright. that's one big advantage to living in the country.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 04 2014,06:52

(Paul @ Mar. 04 2014,09:27)

QUOTE

I'm friendly with neighbors who own farms, so I'm sure I'll be alright. that's one big advantage to living in the country.

I think the knowledge of beer making will be huge when things settle down after a few years.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,07:28

(Paul @ Mar. 04 2014,08:27)

QUOTE

Hunting is going to dry up very quickly. I've talked about this with a wildlife biologist that I used to date.
Right now there is regulated pressure on wildlife, but when people get hungry most of the game will be gone within the first year.

That's what most hunters today don't understand. Ask your grandparents about how often they ate deer during the depression. Squirrels were a treat to find and kill. That's why those 22 rounds will be so valuable. Also, get over the yuck factor on eating rats. As long as they're grain fed country rats. City rats... not so much.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 04 2014,07:33

Mmmm, dog... Dog is a fine meal.

I tell my food-picky kid somewhat frequently that if he is hungry enough, he will eat anything.

I wonder if we should screen Alive next.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,07:42

(GORDON @ Mar. 04 2014,09:33)

QUOTE

I wonder if we should screen Alive next.

I would, if for no other reason than to show him you often have to take matters into your own hands and not rely on what the "authorities" say to keep you safe (see Katrina in New Orleans).

If you've been lost for three days, assume they aren't going to find you any time soon. Then you might not have to eat dead people.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 04 2014,07:46

Ha, that's one of the frequent "morality" conversations he and I have when he doesn't realize I am giving him a lesson in morality. Things like, "School may have zero tolerance against fighting, but I do not. If someone starts a fight with you, defend yourself. The school may be mad at you for fighting, but you will never be in trouble with me for defending yourself." Little lesson about defying authority, when the situation requires it.

I just have to make sure he has enough sense to recognize that situation when it comes.

Posted by Paul on Mar. 04 2014,08:05

(Vince @ Mar. 04 2014,10:28)

QUOTE

Ask your grandparents about how often they ate deer during the depression. Squirrels were a treat to find and kill. That's why those 22 rounds will be so valuable.

There were pretty much no deer in KY until hey started importing and regulating them. When people could hunt all they want they pretty much wiped out the population.
I think the first legal hunting season was in 1959 but it was a huge deal to even find a deer to hunt.
Even in the 70's in was rare to see a deer.

Turkey were imported about 30 years ago because they were hunted into oblivion as well.

Populations are only maintained now because of regulation, and when people get hungry laws go out the window.

Squirrel don't cover as much range and are harder to spot, so they stayed around.
A couple years ago I read an article that squirrel populations are just a small percentage of what they used to be though. Chestnuts used to account of something like 1/3 of the trees int he forest, but due to disease there are few left.
Also, people would go on hunting trips and come back with thousands of squirrels.
There used to be squirrel migrations where tens of thousands of squirrels would swim across the Ohio River.

As for .22 rounds, they will kill anything in the U.S. (except for maybe a bear).
It is illegal (and unethical) to shoot a deer with one, but a well placed shot will drop one in its tracks.
Shooting one through the lungs will kill it, but a lot more slowly.
And for protection, I'm going to run and hide just as quickly if someone is pointing a .22 at me as I would if someone was pointing a .45.

I paid $16 per brick (500 rounds) for .22's a year and a half ago. Now the same bricks sell for about $60 online.
Prices shot up about a year ago.
They sell out as soon as they hit the shelves at Walmart.
Most gun shops will only sell a limited quantity, and the prices are high.
I heard (but haven't verified) that Smith & Wesson has a contract to buy the entire stock of a 22LR manufacturer (I think CCI?) for the next few years, as they plan to offer a free box of ammo with each of their .22's so supply/prices look bleak.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,08:44

I know they had more trouble in eastern KY than western KY as far as getting the deer population to take hold. Those mountain folk just weren't cooperating with limits on what they could shoot for food.

I'm wanting to say the food stamp program actually helped with that. Plus they stopped figuring in to their population equations that people were going to stop hunting just because they said so and brought in a whole lot of deer.

There were deer on my dad's land for as long as I can remember (early 70's). But that's low lands near the river with a lot of farms around growing corn and other grains. I think it being boggy so much of the year around there helps as well. Harder to get in to harvest them.

Posted by Paul on Mar. 04 2014,11:51

They still have trouble in Eastern KY.
In fact my ex-GF (but mostly her crew) has been spending time down there as part of a new study.
They're trying to trap/release 75 deer so they can put tracking devices on them and pinpoint why populations aren't rebounding like they should.

When I asked about it I was told something like, "The problem with studying trapping deer to find out why there aren't many is that there aren't many deer to trap." So things are going slow.

The deer traps are sort of like cages that you'd catch a raccoon in, but larger, and made out of mesh nets instead of metal.

As far as deer populations in the 1970's go, I was going off stories I heard. I know Tim Farmer of the hunting/fishing show Kentucky Afield (< Tim only has the use of one arm. Check out his bow fishing clip. >)has talked about how it was a big deal for someone to get a legal deer back in the 70's. All the friends and neighbors would come over to check it out, and it might get a write up in the paper.
Nowadays, you can harvest and unlimited number of does in much of the northern counties (any Zone 1 county).

As far as poaching goes, it hurts everybody.
A healthy doe will have two fawns a year, every year. (I think I heard that 80% of them will, while some have triplets in good years and some have one or none)
So in any given deer population, if half are female, and 80% of those have viable twins, that's adding 40% to the population every year.
Poach a healthy doe in the winter and you're essentially removing three deer that would be around in the spring.
You'd be removing the twins that mother would have the following year, and the several years after that.
Plus you'd be removing all of the twins that her offspring would have had.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 04 2014,11:54

(Paul @ Mar. 04 2014,14:51)

QUOTE

Poach a healthy doe in the winter and you're essentially removing three deer that would be around in the spring.
You'd be removing the twins that mother would have the following year, and the several years after that.
Plus you'd be removing all of the twins that her offspring would have had.

Now that's RIAA math... poach one doe and you've taken millions of pounds of meat out of the system. ;)

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,12:06

(Paul @ Mar. 04 2014,13:51)

QUOTE

As far as deer populations in the 1970's go, I was going off stories I heard. I know Tim Farmer of the hunting/fishing show Kentucky Afield (< Tim only has the use of one arm. Check out his bow fishing clip. >)has talked about how it was a big deal for someone to get a legal deer back in the 70's. All the friends and neighbors would come over to check it out, and it might get a write up in the paper.

I don't think it was ever quite that bad in our area when I was growing up (my dad pretty regularly took bucks, but nothing like today), but the fact that you could rarely harvest does supports what you are talking about. I remember when they DID have a season when does could be harvested, they had a specific season apart from the season for bucks. And much shorter.

Weird.

Posted by Paul on Mar. 04 2014,12:10

As far as prepping goes, a lot of it is having a reliable group of people you trust.
I have people I trust that have the resources I need for long-term survival.
I have one friend who is *really* into this sort of stuff. He keeps telling me to get < survival food >, but I have yet to pull the trigger on a purchase. I may get a couple < one month supplies > off Amazon though.

With what I have on hand my daughter and I can hole up in the house for a month.
With what I have prepared I have 4 or so days worth of survival gear packed and ready to go in three minutes. (No guns in the bugout bag, but I'd grab some.)

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 04 2014,12:13

There was some dude on that show "Doomsday Preppers..." he was saying that he would absolutely raid his neighbors if he wanted their shit, and he had enough firepower that they absolutely could not stop him. He was arrested soon after on some charge.

Don't watch the show. Read the news about it.

Posted by Paul on Mar. 04 2014,12:16

(Vince @ Mar. 04 2014,15:06)

QUOTE

I remember when they DID have a season when does could be harvested, they had a specific season apart from the season for bucks. And much shorter.

Here in KY there are four zones.
Zone 1 & 2 have the longest seasons.
Zone 2 & 3 have a shorter season.
In every county, you can only harvest one antlered deer. This is to give them a chance to get big. (This makes KY a top-5 state for deer hunting... #1 last year)
In Zone 1 you can harvest an unlimited number of deer, as long as you buy tags for them.
In Zones 2 & 3 (I'm a zone 3) you can harvest two deer with firearms and two with archery equipment. (One being and antlered)
In Zone 4 (Eastern KY) you can only harvest one deer, and it can only be antlered. They want to save the does for breeding.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,12:46

(Paul @ Mar. 04 2014,14:10)

QUOTE

I try out the various ones before you commit to a large purchase. Otherwise you might be stuck with something you don't care much for.

Every so often we'll get a variety pack of mountain house freeze dried foods. We backpack and camp, so we eat those over time anyway. Good for a bug out situation, and they taste pretty good. Especially for freeze dried food. The down side to them is they don't stick to your ribs for long. I suspect it's because they're freeze dried and the cellular structure of the food is already compromised making them very easy for your body to absorb. Rapidly. But that's a guess on my part.

So we keep a week or two of those around, and beyond that I just pick up extra food during our weekly grocery trip. Our Kroger always has a big bin of $1 food items. Dry mashed potato packets and flavored noodle and rice packets and chef-boy-ardee little mini cups of ravioli and whatnot. I try to stick to stuff we can heat up directly (or eat cold) or what would only take boiling water to prepare. Plus I'll eat those for lunch on occasion so they are rotated and won't go to waste.

I used to think I needed to get the survival food like you'd listed, but at the end of the shelf life you're either going to have to eat it or toss it. For me it's easier to get a little extra of stuff you'd eat anyway. The down side of that is we're running out of pantry space.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,13:05

(GORDON @ Mar. 04 2014,14:13)

QUOTE

I watched a few of those. Doesn't surprise me. They mostly picked people that were on the extreme and trying to make them all look nuts.

I did see a few of them talk about how they didn't believe in guns. So I thought someone WITH a gun would be grateful for their gather and storing all that food!

A few months ago the NY Times had an article about how being a prepper might not be a bad idea. Because now that they've had hurricanes that impacted New Yorkers, it might be a good idea.

Posted by Paul on Mar. 04 2014,13:07

Yeah, it comes down to "eat it or toss it" for survival food, and it's not gourmet, so it'd be tossed.
That's stuff you eat when you don't have better options.

I got a free sample of some of the survival bucket food last year and I threw it away after a few bites.
Of course, if I hadn't eaten for a day it'd have been delicious.

I wish I could find some instant rice in bulk. It lasts forever and I'd eat it anyway.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,13:07

(Paul @ Mar. 04 2014,14:16)

QUOTE

I hunt at my dad's in zone 1. He says they're having an increase in rabbits in the last few years also. He said they'd been in short supply for a few years and he rarely saw them. Seeing them a lot more now.

Posted by Paul on Mar. 04 2014,16:53

I heard it was a good time for rabbits.
I've been seeing rabbits on my land quite a bit, but they used to be pretty rare.

Know how they do rabbit surveys? They have mail carries voluntarily count rabbits and submit the results.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 04 2014,18:34

I did not know that (in my best Carson).

I was surprised when my dad said that the rabbits had gotten scarce. I used to run over them all the time driving the back roads growing up. They're pretty stupid when it comes to traffic. One would dart across the road and be all the way across and then panic and try to run all the way back.

Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 05 2014,06:15

There just aren't a lot of wild animals, apparently.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 05 2014,06:17

Not relative to agriculture, no.

Hopefully some ranchers out west will be able to save breeding stock until the first wave of human die-offs happen. I would hate to never be able to eat beef or bison again.

Posted by Vince on Mar. 05 2014,06:27

The challenge will be getting the beef from out west to where your plate is.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 05 2014,07:29

I have every intention of lasting 10 years til someone gets steam trains running again.

Posted by Troy on Mar. 05 2014,08:13

(Paul @ Mar. 04 2014,12:10)

QUOTE

< survival food >

Playing Rust a little too much, the first thing I saw when I clicked that was how it looks all packaged up when it's shipped - Just like an unopened airdrop!

Posted by Vince on Mar. 05 2014,08:41

(Troy @ Mar. 05 2014,10:13)

QUOTE

Playing Rust a little too much, the first thing I saw when I clicked that was how it looks all packaged up when it's shipped - Just like an unopened airdrop!

After too much Assassin's Creed I find myself trying to visualize the best way to scale the faces of churches and other buildings around town.

Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 05 2014,08:46

Haven't played much TF2 in about a year, but I still find myself thinking about where to build a turret when I see a nice overwatch location IRL.

Posted by GORDON on Mar. 05 2014,08:48

I point out good sniping positions to my wife now and then.

Posted by TheCatt on Aug. 14 2014,08:13

So my wife read about North Korea's attempts to build an EMP weapon to attack the US with. She now thinks we should have a cache of weapons, etc in case civilization falls apart.

Assuming she's serious... what would be good reliable gun(s) and ammo we should have?

According to Rust, I need a full auto, but I'm guessing that's hard to get. Handgun + Rifle?

Posted by GORDON on Aug. 14 2014,08:55

A good semi-auto rifle is, in my experience, more accurate. You can pull the trigger pretty fast and put 3 well-aimed rounds on target easier than a full auto that will have you shooting the ceiling within 4 rounds. It isn't like you are trying to keep a hoard of chinese out of your base... probably.

Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 14 2014,09:03

IMO, what you choose is less important than making sure you have the necessary tools to compliment it and make it last as long as possible. Be sure to get appropriate handloading equipment and supplies and learn how to use it. Having some simple forging tools on hand to make new shot from available materials would also be good.

That's all assuming you are prepping to stay in place. If your plans require more mobility I'd instead recommend considering taking up crossbow marksmanship and get really good at that, along with learning to craft new bolts out of natural materials. It's a much more portable option.

Posted by GORDON on Aug. 14 2014,09:07

(TheCatt @ Aug. 14 2014,11:13)

QUOTE

So my wife read about North Korea's attempts to build an EMP weapon to attack the US with. She now thinks we should have a cache of weapons, etc in case civilization falls apart.

If you really want her to flip out over EMPs have her read the book that was discussed here:

< http://www.dtman.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=10119 >

Posted by Vince on Aug. 14 2014,09:09

I can only tell you (some of) what we have and why. Might give you some ideas.

Wife and I both have 9mm semi autos. Not the most powerful handgun, but a hollow point will stop most. Also a common gun, so ammo shouldn't be an issue. That's a common theme with me.

I recently built an evil AR-15. Easy to build and easy to work on. The Cheaper Than Dirt blog article was titled "So East a Caveman Could Do It" which is pretty accurate. High compression ammo. Not a big kick. Wouldn't stop a grizzly with one shot, but the ammo is light and again... common.

Posted by TheCatt on Aug. 14 2014,09:16

(Vince @ Aug. 14 2014,12:09)

QUOTE

Wife and I both have 9mm semi autos. Not the most powerful handgun, but a hollow point will stop most.

Which brand/type of 9mm?

I've heard the Glock 19s are super easy/reliable to work with, which would be key.

Posted by Vince on Aug. 14 2014,09:28

(TheCatt @ Aug. 14 2014,11:16)

QUOTE

(Vince @ Aug. 14 2014,12:09)

QUOTE

Wife and I both have 9mm semi autos. Not the most powerful handgun, but a hollow point will stop most.

Which brand/type of 9mm?

I've heard the Glock 19s are super easy/reliable to work with, which would be key.

I have a Smith & Wesson. Wife has a Kahr that I bought for her. We have a Range here and you can rent an instructor to go through their hand guns to find something you're comfortable with. That was a good investment for my wife. She went into learning to shoot with a bit more confidence since it was the gun that was "fitted to her".

I've never taken a Glock apart, but I've heard the same. Both of ours are easy to disassemble. Another nice thing about the Range near us is they offer free cleaning classes. The one we went to had a sheriff's deputy from a nearby county that taught it and was able to show everyone in the class how to disassemble their weapon for cleaning.

So checking out the local ranges and what they can offer I would also recommend. Especially if either of you have not spent a lot of time around firearms. And if that describes either of you, make sure the range has a good focus on beginners. Ours has a couple of female instructors and that goes a LONG way towards making the women comfortable when starting out.

Posted by Vince on Aug. 14 2014,09:55

And here's an old article that will make your wife say, "At least I don't feel like I'm just being paranoid. Crap. I wish I was just being paranoid."

< Iran Tests Suggest Possible EMP Trials >

Posted by Cakedaddy on Aug. 14 2014,17:33

We have a Sig Sauer P239 (mine for CC) and a CZ75 (wife's cause she wanted one). Really like them both. I don't care for Glocks because they are half plastic and that makes them really light. Light makes them kick more. But hear nothing but good as far as reliability and durability. Not saying Glocks are bad, saying they aren't for me. Lots of arguments about .45 or 9mm. I chose 9mm because it was easier to CC. Wife chose it because it kicks less and then we use the same ammo.

I have a Sig Suaer AR15 that I really like. AR15's are like video cards. Lots of manufacturers making 'their' gun using the exact same specifications as everyone else. Mine has an ambidextrous mag release and had some Magpul accessories that I liked. The biggest difference in AR15s is if it uses a gas tube or push rod. Have been working for 20 hours the last two days on 4 hours of sleep, so can't come up with the actual terms for them. But, that was the biggest thing I struggled with. Gas tubes are the original design and have been around since cavemen. Push rods have been around forever (AK47) but only recently gaining steam on the AR platform. Gives the AR15 the reliability of the AK47 but still an AR15. BUT. . . I read too many reviews about weird groves showing up in the upper receiver and new parts being made to alleviate it. Those that went gas said "Don't go push rod cause of the grooves!". Those with push rods said "The grooves don't mean anything and don't affect anything". I went gas cause it was cheaper. Push rods are WAY easier to clean cause your upper doesn't fill up with carbon/exhaust.

But, I would highly recommend EVERYONE buy and AR15 sooner than later. They will be banned eventually. You will wish you had one.

Machine guns. Anyone can own them. Well, at least in Michigan. They cost $9K and up. Rules are, you can own/buy one as long as it was made before 1986 and registered with a tax stamp ($300). So, you can own one, but no one ever bought the tax stamps back in the day making all of the illegal. Right now, you could buy a full auto AR15 for $1500, if you are ATF or law enforcement. Right now, you can buy a piston AR15 for $1500. After the eventual ban, your standard AR15 will cost 9K+, just like machine guns.

So, good time to buy. Ammo is even starting to creep down in price.

Oh. An assault shotgun is still the best home defense weapon. Assaults normally hold more ammo and have shorter barrels than a hunting shotgun, for use in close quarters.

As far as full auto. An AR15 doesn't kick like a Tommy Gun, so you won't be shooting the ceiling. BUT, you will be out of bullets in less than 3 seconds. 30 rounds go away NOW at full auto.

I want a machine gun.

Posted by GORDON on Aug. 14 2014,17:55

I want dual hood mounted machine guns on my truck.

And a helmet tracking minigun on the cab.

Possibly a SAM mount in the bed.

Posted by Paul on Aug. 14 2014,21:29

(TheCatt @ Aug. 14 2014,12:16)

QUOTE

(Vince @ Aug. 14 2014,12:09)

QUOTE

Wife and I both have 9mm semi autos. Not the most powerful handgun, but a hollow point will stop most.

Which brand/type of 9mm?

I've heard the Glock 19s are super easy/reliable to work with, which would be key.

I really like Glocks and was going back and forth on getting a Glock 17 or a Glock 19 (Gen 4 as I want the straps because I have big hands)
Glocks are big and ugly, < but they are very reliable >.

Glock 19's are a little smaller than the 17's so they can be carried as concealed weapons.
If you're not worried about concealing then take a good look the 17's. 17's have a longer site radius so they're potentially more accurate (not that you'll be shooting them at distances where it would matter much). 17's also hold more rounds.

I've done research on the 9mm vs .40 and 9mm seems to be the better all around round. It has less recoil so the accuracy is better, and with premium rounds you're going to leave virtually identical sized holes in your attacker.
Plus 9mm ammo is cheaper.

If the shit hits the fan I think an AR15 is going to be the best thing to have. You can put a lot of rounds at a target a decent distance away.
I don't have one. The ammo is pricey and it's really easy to shoot a lot of it.

The big thing is going to be ammunition. Ammo dried up a year and a half ago and things thing still haven't recovered fully.
I'd bought two bricks of 22LR for $16 in November and people were selling that stuff online (because stores were sold out) for $75 4 months later.
If something bad happens expect ammo to disappear completely, so have a good supply of it.

Have other stuff as well.
Coincidentally I filled a 6-gallon fuel can with gas & fuel stabilizer today so I knew I'd have it on hand for my generator this winter should I need it.

Posted by Paul on Aug. 14 2014,21:34

A good place for used guns is Armslist.com.
You can usually negotiate a lower price so you get them cheaper than you would at a dealer or pawn shop.

Here in KY I could legally buy an assault rifle from someone for cash. He doesn't have to know me and there would be no paper trail. The only stipulations are that he has to confirm that I am a KY resident (by looking at my driver's license) and he can't know that I am a felon.
Note: He doesn't have to ask if I am a felon. He just can't know that I am one.

I think the laws are ridiculously loose.

Posted by TheCatt on Aug. 15 2014,04:17

Thanks, a lot to process there.

Next question: Storage

Although Paul's post shows that the Glock, for example, can go through a lot of shit, I would assume temperature controlled storage would be ideal? For instance, in a closet in our house, rather than in the attic. My wife's next concern is the kids/safety, etc. I assume we'd have to get a gun safe of some kind to satisfy that?

Posted by Vince on Aug. 15 2014,05:10

Humidity is far more damaging than temps, but you're right. You'd rather have it in the house. I have a cabinet safe that I keep most of my firearms in now, but to be honest I didn't have any locked up when I had kids in the house. Long guns were unloaded in the closet with ammo on the top shelf. Home defense firearm was loaded on the top shelf unchambered.

Long before the kids were big enough to have any curiosity about the guns, I'd let them target shoot with me when we went to my dad's place. They'd be sitting in my lap and I'd help them support the pistol and ensure they were pointed in a safe direction and let them have at pulling the trigger. It was more about pulling the trigger and making a bang than hitting a target at that point. It took the intrigue out of them.

Even when we discussed with them what to do if a friend went and got their parents' gun, we focused that the danger wasn't the gun but that their friend was going to hurt someone if they were playing with a gun without their parent.

They didn't seem to really care about them much after that. They may or may not want to shoot when we were target shooting. Stepdaughter mostly just thought it smelled bad and moved on.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Aug. 16 2014,01:51

This is really cheap.

< http://shop.tropgun.com/servlet....omotion >

Posted by Paul on Aug. 16 2014,10:12

(Cakedaddy @ Aug. 16 2014,04:51)

QUOTE

This is really cheap.

< http://shop.tropgun.com/servlet....omotion >

That's a great price.
You'd be hard pressed to find them used at that price.

Tax, shipping, and the FFL fee (FFL's in my area charge $20 but I've heard of them charging triple that in other states) will knock it up some, but it's still a bargain.

Posted by Paul on Aug. 16 2014,10:13

(TheCatt @ Aug. 14 2014,11:13)

QUOTE

She now thinks we should have a cache of weapons, etc in case civilization falls apart.

< The DTMan gun thread. >

Posted by GORDON on Aug. 16 2014,10:17

(Paul @ Aug. 16 2014,13:12)

QUOTE

(Cakedaddy @ Aug. 16 2014,04:51)

QUOTE

This is really cheap.

< http://shop.tropgun.com/servlet....omotion >

You concentrated assholes should pitch in and get me that for over 14 years of faithful dtman server expense and administration.

Posted by Vince on Aug. 16 2014,12:32

If we were worth a damn we'd do that Gordo

Posted by GORDON on Aug. 16 2014,12:33

I know you guys would. If you all were.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Aug. 16 2014,12:36

$1106 to post your stupid thoughts! LOL!! What a looser!!!!

Posted by Paul on Aug. 16 2014,17:51

(TheCatt @ Aug. 14 2014,11:13)

QUOTE

Nations rise and nations fall. It would be arrogant to think that the United States will be an exception. I just hope it will be later rather than sooner.
< Civilization as we know it is a lot more fragile than people realize >.

North Korea probably lacks the resources to EMP all of North America but let's say that Putin decided that he wanted to help them out so he can be the big boy on the block. We'd be screwed.

No cell phones, no credit cards, no cash registers, no access to your bank account. I hear cars will probably work work (the metal acts like a Faraday cage) but it could be awhile before we had electricity so the pumps at the gas station wouldn't work.

Best case scenario, everyone bans together until we can rebuild our infrastructure.

Worst case scenario, the US government crumbles, the US dollar becomes worthless, there is mass rioting and looting.
People loot and burn cities when they don't like a jury verdict. What will they do when they haven't eaten in a couple days, the cops are busy (and can't communicate), and there are no electronics (TV, Internet, computers, Xbox, etc.) to keep them occupied?

Buy more ammo than you think you'll need. Properly stored it won't go bad in your lifetime and you can always sell it.
If the dollar fails (or becomes inaccessible) we'll be on the barter system and ammo will always be a sought after commodity.

Will this happen in our lifetime? Probably not.
I think the US will fade out until it becomes just another country. But if the shit hits the fan a little preparation could be invaluable for you and those you care about.

As for full auto, the cons far outweigh the pros.
They aren't as accurate and they burn through a lot of ammunition.

Posted by Paul on Aug. 16 2014,19:22

(Cakedaddy @ Aug. 16 2014,04:51)

QUOTE

This is really cheap.

< http://shop.tropgun.com/servlet....omotion >

More AR15 choices:
< http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ProductListing.aspx?catid=7777 >

I kinda like the $648.95 American tactical with the conversion.
You can shoot the standard AR15 (.223/5.56 NATO) rounds and 22LR.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,15:43

Bought a Barnett Jackal crossbow. Will be at my dad's this weekend for the last weekend of bow season to hunt with it. Sighted it in out back at my house. Made the mistake of letting the wife fire it, and now she wants one. She found a smaller Barnett Recruit with less pull so she can cock it with her little stick arms.

She doesn't know if she'll ever be able to shoot a deer. She was the official "spotter" up in the tree with me last year when I got the small buck that went in the freezer. She cried. But after the first meal, she got over the idea that she couldn't eat it. Now she's to the point that she can at least watch a deer being taken down in a hunting show, and she couldn't even do that before. But she's confident she'd be able to pull the trigger on a turkey, so we'll go for that this Spring with her.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 15 2014,16:24

(Vince @ Oct. 15 2014,18:43)

QUOTE

She doesn't know if she'll ever be able to shoot a deer. She was the official "spotter" up in the tree with me last year when I got the small buck that went in the freezer. She cried.

I could never kill for sport but I'll choke out a fucking deer with my bare hands if it means having a meal, or not.

Posted by Vince on Oct. 15 2014,16:44

I killed for freezer food. I don't know if it's considered killing for sport if you go for the bigger buck that would make a nicer mounted rack instead of the younger more tender tasting deer. I'd eat the bigger one. Wouldn't enjoy it as much, but I'd eat it.