Forum: General Stuff
Topic: Newton
started by: Leisher

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 17 2012,07:07
It's events like this that make me wish there really was a hell.

One entire classroom of kids murdered, and half of another.

It's bad enough that some twisted fuck, who literally looks like death, did this, now we have to listen to people trying to capitalize on it or push their political agendas.

< Here's a timeline that seems to blame video games. > Interesting that they never mention his mental illness.

Of course, < these assholes have to make an appearance. > It amazes me that these fucks haven't been killed yet by a grieving family member of any of the funerals they attend.

Then there's the gun control people who seem to think guns are this massive evil, and if we ban them, stuff like this won't happen anymore. You know, just like nobody does drugs since they made them illegal...

And was Obama's trip to Newton, and his speech appropriate? If I was one of those parents, I'd be pissed. I wouldn't want my kid's death turned into a political issue. At the same time though, shouldn't our "leaders" be showing their faces and making some attempt to do something?

Finally, if you go to any concert, any fair or festival, some schools, most movie theaters, any sporting event, any political rally, or generally any place where there's a large group of people, you will find on or off duty cops. Why don't we have one in every school? One armed police officer or member of the military or even a veteran (obviously, not an elderly one) would drastically decrease a school shooter's odds of getting a high body count.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,07:30
QUOTE
Of course, these assholes have to make an appearance. It amazes me that these fucks haven't been killed yet by a grieving family member of any of the funerals they attend.

We really need to start name-dropping them to the psycho fundie Muslims.  "Hey terrorists dudes, you want some free PR?  Bomb these fuckers."

QUOTE
Why don't we have one in every school?

Fuck that.  Single point of failure.  < The Swiss do not have school shootings >.  Well, not in the sense of "dude walking in and shooting it up," more in the "school children can form proper firing lines and send rounds down range accurately" sort of way.

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 17 2012,08:01

(Leisher @ Dec. 17 2012,10:07)
QUOTE
Finally, if you go to any concert, any fair or festival, some schools, most movie theaters, any sporting event, any political rally, or generally any place where there's a large group of people, you will find on or off duty cops. Why don't we have one in every school? One armed police officer or member of the military or even a veteran (obviously, not an elderly one) would drastically decrease a school shooter's odds of getting a high body count.

What popped into my mind was, "It is too bad that being a male teacher is a guarantee of an eventual child molestation charge."

I try to not think about what happened there too much, because it would crush me if I let the reality of it completely sink in.  It is just too bad, though, there weren't any teachers there who were former military.

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 17 2012,08:02

(Malcolm @ Dec. 17 2012,10:30)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Why don't we have one in every school?

Fuck that.  Single point of failure.  < The Swiss do not have school shootings >.  Well, not in the sense of "dude walking in and shooting it up," more in the "school children can form proper firing lines and send rounds down range accurately" sort of way.

Yeah but Norway did, recently.  I thin it was Norway.  70 kids killed?
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,08:25
Norway != Switzerland.  Finding an armed tween in Norway or the U.S. is generally cause for concern.  In Switzerland, finding an unarmed one is unusual.
Posted by TheCatt on Dec. 17 2012,08:30
What happened was brutal.  It happened right before my wife and I went to our child's kindergarten for a show the kids did singing songs.  20 kids in that class.  Doors to the building unlocked.  No police presence.

I have no idea what the right answer is.  Like Gordon, it makes me sick, so I honestly try not to think of it too much.  There's nothing that can be done about those kids.  Nothing.  If something like that happened here, there's nothing I could about that either.

I'm having a hard time getting my mind around it.  On the one hand, it's not like this happens everywhere every day/month or even year.  On the other hand, it happened.

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 17 2012,08:31

(Malcolm @ Dec. 17 2012,11:25)
QUOTE
Norway != Switzerland.  Finding an armed tween in Norway or the U.S. is generally cause for concern.  In Switzerland, finding an unarmed one is unusual.

Also Israel.

I thought you were making a gun control point, so my bad.

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 17 2012,08:33

(TheCatt @ Dec. 17 2012,11:30)
QUOTE
I'm having a hard time getting my mind around it.  On the one hand, it's not like this happens everywhere every day/month or even year.  On the other hand, it happened.

I can't see the solution, either, aside from locking down schools tighter than a prison.  Much tighter.

Gun control only disarms the good guys.

Tightening down the "mentally disturbed" gets a lot of harmless eccentrics put away.

Dunno.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 17 2012,09:03
I just think people are screaming about guns, or in the case of the one article, video games, when they should be worried about other things.

1. How does someone like this not raise flags? Especially when his mother is training him to shoot? (Not saying this was the goal, just that mentally disturbed people shouldn't be trained in shooting.)

2. Would it really be difficult to put one armed and trained person into every school as a precaution? Maybe that person gets killed and isn't able to stop another massacre, but they had a chance, which is more than those kids in Newton had.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 17 2012,09:31
I'm starting to suspect that bullies might serve a purpose.  A kid like this - if he hadn't been home-schooled - would probably have had the crap beaten out of him on a regular basis.  Eventually he'd be forced to learn to be less socially awkward or he'd have snapped and killed the bullies.  Either way he wouldn't have been in a position to do what he did last week.

Personally I hate bullies, but perhaps the trend to reduce bullying to zero is a little short-sighted.  Some people just need to be beaten up.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,09:43
QUOTE
I just think people are screaming about guns, or in the case of the one article, video games, when they should be worried about other things.

It's easier to blame inanimate objects instead of the people that use them.  Objects cannot defend themselves, and it's far easier to take rage and frustration out on them instantaneously than to dig in and consider the blame ought to be placed on the motherfucker that pulled the trigger.

QUOTE
A kid like this - if he hadn't been home-schooled - would probably have had the crap beaten out of him on a regular basis.  Eventually he'd be forced to learn to be less socially awkward or he'd have snapped and killed the bullies.

Probably.  I disagree with your conclusions ... the folks are who apt to become less socially awkward due to bullying tend to be the ones with an underlying nasty predisposition which proves them to be far worse than those who bullied them.  Pushing those sorts of people into being bastards creates additional problems.

As for killing the bullies ... maybe.  There's no guarantee he takes his anger out on those who tormented him as opposed to those he can more easily torment himself.

QUOTE
Some people just need to be beaten up.

Amen.



Posted by Leisher on Dec. 17 2012,09:45

(TPRJones @ Dec. 17 2012,12:31)
QUOTE
I'm starting to suspect that bullies might serve a purpose.  A kid like this - if he hadn't been home-schooled - would probably have had the crap beaten out of him on a regular basis.  Eventually he'd be forced to learn to be less socially awkward or he'd have snapped and killed the bullies.  Either way he wouldn't have been in a position to do what he did last week.

Personally I hate bullies, but perhaps the trend to reduce bullying to zero is a little short-sighted.  Some people just need to be beaten up.

This is an interesting statement.

How many school shootings were there before X?

Now solve for X.

Let me start by pointing out that history proves "guns" aren't X.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 17 2012,09:53
Meh, you can't test for that sort of thing that easily.  There's far too many X going on every day.

No, you'd have to have controls.  Two schools almost identical with randomly assigned students.  At one school you punish bullying severely, and remove serial bullies from the system.  But worry not, you just send them to the other school, where bullying is allowed - nay, encouraged.  Maybe even have a 10 minute bullying break ever afternoon.  School lunches are half price if paid for with some other kids' money.  In the interest of safety, this school has extra-wide toilet bowls and lockers that can be opened from the inside.

But you can't do that sort of testing.  And what parent would want to send their kids to school #2?



Posted by Leisher on Dec. 17 2012,10:06
I don't think you have to have testing. We're not the TSA. We don't have to strip search 80 year old white women.

We just need to look around and alter some behaviors. The problem is that we have to do it as a society, and getting everyone on board will be tough.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 17 2012,10:40

(Leisher @ Dec. 17 2012,12:06)
QUOTE
I don't think you have to have testing. We're not the TSA. We don't have to strip search 80 year old white women.

Huh?  Are you equating the methodology of controlled scientific experimentation with fondling random citizens' junk?

I'm confused.



Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,10:45

(Leisher @ Dec. 17 2012,12:06)
QUOTE
I don't think you have to have testing. We're not the TSA. We don't have to strip search 80 year old white women.

We just need to look around and alter some behaviors. The problem is that we have to do it as a society, and getting everyone on board will be tough.

Make school fucking matter.  Then, they'll be forced to pay attention and do their shit then, or their life gets more difficult later on.  That's a bitch of a problem, though, because most schools only have a 1% hit rate on the "useful to bullshit" knowledge ratio.

Even more to the point, some high school kids genuinely need more schooling.  Someone has to be the engineer and scientist of the future.  On the flip side, some people have a brain that's simply not cut out for such things.  Get them on-the-job training, NOW.  Give them a job and an income to lose so that when they do lose it, they have some memory of how not to be a worthless fucking drain on society.  One can be a drain either by being unemployed for one's entire life due to sloth or incompetency, and one can also be a drain by shooting up a room full of students.

Then there are the ones with no social skills whatsoever that've been coddled by their relatives since the day they exited the vagina (probably the only real one they ever see), which is the category this fucker falls into.  To you, your kid is special.  To everyone else in the world, he's a potential problem unless he learns to integrate with the rest of his species.

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 17 2012,10:59
The simplest way to fix schools would be to take all the bullshit out of the curriculum and teach real useful shit.  Then stop being afraid to fail students that fail and kick them out if they don't at least pretend to take it seriously.

Stop treating it like a glorified daycare and maybe the students will stop doing the same.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,11:05
There's a fine line between being harsh enough to push them and being overly harsh, driving them away.  As far as "bullshit in the curriculum," that's an overhaul that's been needed for a loooooooooong time.  Won't be happening, though.  Schools still get enough backlash when they try to teach evolution, let alone matters of a more practical nature.


Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,11:27
< Dude explains why psych system should have caught this fucker >.
Posted by TheCatt on Dec. 17 2012,14:35
I haven't listened to Huckabee's "Where's God?" speech, but you know - He's supposed to be fucking EVERYWHERE.

And if he wasn't in Newton, then guess what Mike - Maybe there is no God?  Or maybe He just doesn't interfere.

Brings me back to:
QUOTE
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 17 2012,15:07
Which dead Greek dude was that?  Aristotle?  Goddamnit, Epicurus.
Posted by Leisher on Dec. 19 2012,06:45


I really like the sentiment, but I disagree almost completely with everything else about it.

Whenever something like this occurs, two of the first things blamed are guns and video games.

Something like this, while nice in sentiment, seems to accept guilt. I realize that isn't the intent, but it comes off like that. For example: How many .gifs do you see saying in honor of those killed let's not watch sports this weekend? Or do anything sexual? Or cook? Or watch violent TV shows/movies? Etc...

So why should gamers take this action? Why are we the "guilty" ones?

Posted by TPRJones on Dec. 19 2012,07:03
Yeah, somebody didn't think that through clearly.
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 19 2012,07:26
Wait a fucking second.  He's just putting down his controller and NOT PLAYING GAMES?  How the fuck does that do anything?  You'll be doing just as much ignoring as before.  There's not one coherent thought in that expression, just confused, unconscious guilt.


Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 19 2012,09:43
< China has problem with school shootings stabbings >.
Security guards restrained him before any fatalities occurred.  Then again, this is China, so that could all be swept under the rug.

QUOTE
In one of the worst incidents, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship.

Obviously, the lack of guns keeps people alive.  Does a knife allow the sole psycho assailant to rack up a lower body count?  Potentially.  Know what could've kept it lower?  A motherfucker with a gun and a couple centre mass shots.

On a daily basis, we trust 16 year olds in this country with multi-ton death machines that can go in excess of 100mph.  But we draw the line at firearms, alcohol, and tobacco for unknown, baffling reasons.



Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 19 2012,10:30
< More idiocy >.  Remember how certain songs couldn't be played on the radio after September 11th?  Yeah, that really made a fucking difference.
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 19 2012,10:51
< Just to give you an idea what type of bloke this was... >
QUOTE
Investigators have found no letters or diaries that could explain the attack, even as more fragments of Lanza's life emerged.

As a teenager, Lanza was so painfully shy that he would not speak or look at anyone when he came in for a haircut about every six weeks, always accompanied by his mother, said stylists in the Newtown hair salon Lanza frequented.

Cutting Adam Lanza's hair "was a very long half an hour. It was a very uncomfortable situation," stylist Diane Harty said, adding that she never heard his voice.

Another stylist, Jessica Phillips, said Nancy Lanza would give her son directions about what to do and where to go. He would move only "when his mother told him to," said a third stylist, Bob Skuba.

Yep.  Totally a gun problem.  Nothing else wrong here.

Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 19 2012,11:59

(Malcolm @ Dec. 19 2012,12:43)
QUOTE
On a daily basis, we trust 16 year olds in this country with multi-ton death machines that can go in excess of 100mph.  But we draw the line at firearms, alcohol, and tobacco for unknown, baffling reasons.

But GUUUNS are designed only to KIIIIILLLLL! Waaaah!
Posted by Leisher on Dec. 19 2012,13:27

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 20 2012,08:15
The lunatic fringe are actually claiming there were three gunmen and the purpose of the shooting was so the government has an excuse to ban guns.

Sometimes I hate the internet.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 20 2012,10:07
< Some dude makes the points I've been making for a bit now >.
QUOTE
The National Safety Council calculates the odds of dying of various things ranging from heart disease to fireworks. In its latest report (actually 2008 data), the NSC points out that you have a 1 in 321 chance of dying from assault by a firearm.

Other things at the top of the list are heart disease (1 in 6), cancer (1 in 7),  motor vehicle incidents (1 in 98), suicide (1 in 109), poisoning (1 in 126), riding in a car (1 in 368) and being a pedestrian (1 in 701). At the bottom of the risk list are floods (1 in 588,896) and fireworks (1 in 652,046). By the way, fireworks are banned in many states.

Posted by TheCatt on Dec. 20 2012,10:52
1% of people die by suicide?
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 20 2012,11:05
Of the people who will die, on average 1 in 109 are from some form of suicide in this country, I guess.
Posted by TheCatt on Dec. 20 2012,11:42
That seems insanely high to me.
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 20 2012,12:00

(TheCatt @ Dec. 20 2012,13:42)
QUOTE
That seems insanely high to me.

According to other stats in '09, looks like 12 of every 100K U.S. deaths was suicide.

12 / 100,000 = 0.12 %

Article looks to be off by a factor of 10 maybe?

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 20 2012,13:37
< Cops and firemen block WBC protest. >
Posted by Leisher on Dec. 20 2012,13:56
< Were video games the cause? Probably not. >


Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 20 2012,16:51

(Leisher @ Dec. 20 2012,15:37)
QUOTE
< Cops and firemen block WBC protest. >

I wish Rock Hudson still walked this globe like a colossus of badassery so he could beat the shit out of those fundie psychos.
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 21 2012,10:53
< More dumbassery >.  Anyone who brings in the argument, "Won't somebody please think of the children," has already done a fine job convincing me they're 99.99999% likely full of shit.

QUOTE
My final class, ever, at Tech was on 2nd floor of Norris Hall, where the massacre took place. Not to sound over dramatic, but it is like a better part of my teens and 20s died that day.  After that day, I went through a period, six months or so, where I hardly played anything. Slowly, my world returned to "normal," and eventually I was able to again enjoy the release my favorite hobby provided.

He's talking about the Virginia Tech shooting.  But he gets insane later on.

QUOTE
Unfortunately, there is no going back now. Not this time. Everything's different.
...
But second, and most importantly, is my almost-two-year-old son. The children killed in Newtown were only a few years older than him. 20 little kids, no different than my own, are gone.
...
I don't want to explain to my son why daddy is shooting the guys on the television. Why that's okay, but when it happens in real life, people cry.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 28 2012,10:35
< From here >.

QUOTE
"We've had this unwritten code, even among criminals, that schools are off limits. Those are our kids. You don't mess with that," Utah Shooting Sports Council (USSC) Chairman Clark Aposhian told ABCNews.com today.

What fucking world do you live in?  The same one where George Costanza has an agreement with the pigeons and squirrels?

But wait, there's plenty of stupidity to go around...
QUOTE
Carol Lear, the (Utah) board (of education)'s director of school law and legislation, was more blunt about Aposhian's gun training, telling the Associated Press, "It's a terrible idea...It's a horrible, no-good, rotten idea."

Posted by TheCatt on Dec. 30 2012,14:03
< I know who I hope are the next shooting victims. >
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 30 2012,14:40
I have often said there are two major events in most everyone's life where their IQ drops drastically:

1) going from unmarried to married
2) going from no children to children

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 30 2012,14:54
Well.

I saw a point made the other day that suggested things like this could be stopped by a volunteer with a $600 tool.

Makes me wonder why millions and billions are spent locking down federal buildings housing a bunch of bureaucrat accountants, but none of it is spent on school security.

All they had to change to prevent another 9/11 was make cockpit doors lockable, but look how far they went.  And nothing to protect kids from crazed wackos.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Dec. 30 2012,15:36
Speaking of random killings.  Two people have been pushed in front of subway trains in the last few weeks.  I think there needs to be strong subway regulation.  It's getting completely out of hand.
Posted by TheCatt on Dec. 30 2012,16:05

(Cakedaddy @ Dec. 30 2012,18:36)
QUOTE
Speaking of random killings.  Two people have been pushed in front of subway trains in the last few weeks.  I think there needs to be strong subway regulation.  It's getting completely out of hand.

DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS!
Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 30 2012,16:36
QUOTE
All they had to change to prevent another 9/11 was make cockpit doors lockable...

No.  They just needed something to strike the will of the passengers.  If anyone even thinks of doing weird shit on a plane, the air marshal isn't the only one on him.  They should've caught most of the perpetrators well beforehand, like flight school.

QUOTE
And nothing to protect kids from crazed wackos.

No way in hell I think armed guards in schools is the answer.  Get ready to extend those same security standards to little league games, any school function off campus grounds, etc.  Too much other bullshit.

Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 30 2012,17:00

(TheCatt @ Dec. 30 2012,17:03)
QUOTE
< I know who I hope are the next shooting victims. >

QUOTE
Pinsky said the potential lawsuit is not about money, but about principle and preventing future tragedies.
“My main concern here is to stop this from happening again and we’ve had a lot of mass murders in America,” he told ABCNews.com. “We’re trying to get school security upgraded in Connecticut and nationally.”


Naturally, the best way to do that is to get the State to pay your lawyer lots of money.

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 30 2012,17:09

(Malcolm @ Dec. 30 2012,19:36)
QUOTE
QUOTE
All they had to change to prevent another 9/11 was make cockpit doors lockable...

No.  They just needed something to strike the will of the passengers.  If anyone even thinks of doing weird shit on a plane, the air marshal isn't the only one on him.  They should've caught most of the perpetrators well beforehand, like flight school.

QUOTE
And nothing to protect kids from crazed wackos.

No way in hell I think armed guards in schools is the answer.  Get ready to extend those same security standards to little league games, any school function off campus grounds, etc.  Too much other bullshit.

I disagree with everything you just said.
Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 31 2012,05:26
The simplest, most effective thing "we" could do to make schools safer is to NOT make them "gun free zones." This is stupid and irritating in many ways:

1. I have a concealed carry permit. I also drop my kids off at school because it's on the way to work. Thus, I can't carry AT ALL, because then I'd be breaking the law by "bringing a gun onto campus." Stupid!

2. Have you ever heard of a mass shooting happening ANYWHERE besides a "gun free zone?" Anybody? According to John Lott: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

This is damning. But will anybody listen? Hell no. "Guns in SCHOOLS? Are you CRAZY?"

Let me just ask you this: if you're in a school, and somebody starts shooting it up, are you going to say, "Thank GOD there's no concealed handguns allowed here!"

Posted by Troy on Dec. 31 2012,09:56
Isn't it "Newtown"?

Newton is my QB, bro.

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2013,23:07
< Another one >.

And it's says it happens about once per week?!  Why have they kept this information from the public?  And that's just in New York.  There are killer subs all around the world.  Something MUST be done about them.  Do we have to wait for a child to die before we do something?

Posted by Cakedaddy on Jan. 01 2013,23:08

(thibodeaux @ Dec. 31 2012,00:26)
QUOTE
The simplest, most effective thing "we" could do to make schools safer is to NOT make them "gun free zones." This is stupid and irritating in many ways:

1. I have a concealed carry permit. I also drop my kids off at school because it's on the way to work. Thus, I can't carry AT ALL, because then I'd be breaking the law by "bringing a gun onto campus." Stupid!

2. Have you ever heard of a mass shooting happening ANYWHERE besides a "gun free zone?" Anybody? According to John Lott: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

This is damning. But will anybody listen? Hell no. "Guns in SCHOOLS? Are you CRAZY?"

Let me just ask you this: if you're in a school, and somebody starts shooting it up, are you going to say, "Thank GOD there's no concealed handguns allowed here!"

We need bigger signs.  Obviously the shooters never saw the signs that said no guns were allowed there.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 02 2013,08:18
< Lawyer withdraws case, but... >
QUOTE
The lawyer who filed and then quickly withdrew a $100 million legal claim against the state of Connecticut in the wake of the deadly Newtown elementary school shooting said on Wednesday his motive in the case is to prevent future school massacres and that he continues to investigate evidence for a future claim.

New Haven, Connecticut-based attorney Irving Pinsky, appearing on CNN, said his job is "to stop this happening again."

"It hurts me, but I know it's coming," Pinsky said, referring to the likelihood of a future attack on a school.

Pinsky, hired by the family of an unidentified six-year-old girl who survived the attack, said 20-year-old Adam Lanza's assault was a foreseeable event and officials failed to prevent it. Lanza's Dec. 14 massacre left 20 first graders and six staff members dead at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, the second deadliest school shooting in U.S. history.

"It had to be assumed that this was going to happen somewhere, sometime," Pinsky said.

When pressed with indications that Sandy Hook Principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the attack, had recently increased security measures, which appears to have forced Lanza to shoot his way through the main doors to gain entry to the school, Pinsky replied the entrance was supposed to be constructed of bulletproof glass.

Last week, Pinsky had filed notice with the state that he was seeking permission to sue the State of Connecticut Board of Education, Department of Education and Education Commissioner for what he claims were lapses that allowed the attack to occur.

On Monday Pinsky dropped his claim, but said on CNN he has a year to refile it and he is actively collecting evidence in that effort, echoing comments he made to Reuters on Tuesday.

He added that the state is not the only target of his investigation.

"We're not only going after the State of Connecticut," Pinsky said, without elaborating.

Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 02 2013,08:22
QUOTE
Pinsky, hired by the family of an unidentified six-year-old girl who survived the attack, said 20-year-old Adam Lanza's assault was a foreseeable event and officials failed to prevent it.

This belief alone should be grounds for disbarment and is indicative of insanity.



Posted by Leisher on Jan. 03 2013,06:24
< Nearby town to collect and destroy "violent video games". >

QUOTE
Their statement explains, “SouthingtonSOS is saying is that there is ample evidence that violent video games, along with violent media of all kinds, including TV and Movies portraying story after story showing a continuous stream of violence and killing, has contributed to increasing aggressiveness, fear, anxiety and is desensitizing our children to acts of violence including bullying.”


Yeah, ample evidence if you think emotion, speculation, and the opinions of people with zero information or education on the subject equals fact.

Science says you're full of shit. < Here's PC Gamer's investigation into the studies cited by the MSM after Sandy Hook. >

If that's too many words for you, here's something that might make you understand a little better:

Posted by Leisher on Jan. 03 2013,09:05
Ed Brubaker:
QUOTE
Glad to see we're back to blaming gun violence on movies. Thank god movies are only shown in America or this theory would be full of shit.

Posted by thibodeaux on Jan. 03 2013,09:27
Bwahaha.
Posted by thibodeaux on Jan. 04 2013,17:25
Some people are saying this is a false flag operation (presumably by Obama/The Left in order to grab guns). For example: < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWgCRBR5qE >

Others cite various inconsistencies in the media reports (first 2nd shooter, now no 2nd shooter; Lanza had no AR, now had AR, etc). THAT kind of stuff I can credit as journalists being lazy and inept, as well as general fog-of-war type confusion.

So do I believe it's a false flag? Dunno. But it's an awfully CONVENIENT event for the gun grabbers. If a guy shooting up a theater didn't get them what they wanted, maybe shooting up a kindergarten will. God knows there was way more "Something Must Be Done!" crap on facebook this time.

Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 08 2013,07:30
QUOTE
...inconsistencies in the media reports...

That's just because there are no more journalists.  There's just televised gawkers with nice hair.  Reporters these days are less qualified than your typical gossiping grandmother to be relied on for factual information.

Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 14 2013,10:21
< These folk >, while I kind of get their grief, are the poster children for "Why emotional pleas should not translate into political policy."

QUOTE
"We have a responsibility to make something happen," Bittman said. "We want Newtown to be remembered for change. We refuse to be remembered only for our loss. We want the shooting to be remembered as a turning point."

You are delusional.  This is not a Lifetime movie about you and your family.

Posted by GORDON on Jan. 25 2013,07:49
Saw this little quip.... quipped elsewhere:

Gun grabbers: "Sandy Hook shows us that we need to ban assault weapons!"

Response, using the Clinton Defense: "Over 20 little kids died there, at this point what difference does the style of gun make!"  Then slam the table, showing how much you mean it and you can't keep your bearing and composure because you feel so strongly about it.

Apparently that argument works now.

Posted by thibodeaux on Jan. 25 2013,07:55
Did he actually even use the .223? I've heard so much bullshit and idiocy, I'm not sure of the facts.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 27 2013,08:35
< Stephen King weighs in >
Posted by thibodeaux on Jan. 27 2013,09:17
Up until 1934, there were NO federal restrictions on civilian ownership of FULLY AUTOMATIC firearms. I.e., REAL FUCKING MACHINE GUNS.

Didn't have a lot of school shootings, though?

Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 27 2013,09:40

(TheCatt @ Jan. 27 2013,10:35)
QUOTE
< Stephen King weighs in >

QUOTE
"plenty of gun advocates cling to their semi-automatics the way Amy Winehouse and Michael Jackson clung to the shit that was killing them."

I've seen lots of weird drug shit in my day.  Never have I seen anyone smoking, snorting, shooting, or ingesting a gun.  Nor at any point have I seen statistics that say going to a shooting range has a higher mortality rate than prescription drug abuse.

QUOTE
He added that "to claim that America’s 'culture of violence' is responsible for school shootings is tantamount to cigarette company executives declaring that environmental pollution is the chief cause of cancer."

You're almost right, Steve.  It's not a culture of "violence" but a culture of laziness.

A lazy mental health system and lazy-ass mother let a psycho kid have the means to waltz into a school and shoot it up.

A lazy-ass group of parents and teachers let the two equally psycho Columbine twats (Dylan and something) take the lazy way of resolving their problems.  The list goes on.

This is the same strain of laziness, Steve, that affects you and a significant portion of the rest of this country in thinking that banning guns is going to protect you from getting shot.

QUOTE
Assault weapons will remain readily available to crazy people until the powerful pro-gun forces in this country decide to do a similar turnaround.

Yep, Steve, they're still available to you.

Posted by Leisher on Jan. 29 2013,13:17
Great news!!!!

For too long video games have been demonized for being murder simulators. Well, they're about to spawn a new generation of doctors:


The best part is that people playing this game won't need years of medical school!!!

No sarcasm was used in the posting of this message...promise!

Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 29 2013,16:17
Hah, I remember playing a surgeon simulator more than 20 years ago.

I didn't mean Operation, but you know, taht too.

Posted by Leisher on Jan. 31 2013,07:30

Posted by TPRJones on Jan. 31 2013,08:47
Wow.  I get the idea of treating all guns as if they were loaded for the purposes of gun safety.  But that right there is just too stupid for words.
Posted by thibodeaux on Jan. 31 2013,10:56
Give her a break, she's just a woman.
Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 31 2013,11:00
Somewhere, Annie Oakley is rolling over in her grave.
Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 03 2013,17:29
< A mentally disturbed vet kills one who is less so >.  As Adam Lanza's mother has shown, nothing cures crazy like a trip to the shooting range.  On a side note, guns are clearly the culprit here.  We obviously must ban them from use in the armed forces.  On a further side note, thumbs up to the U.S. gov't for supporting the troops ... right up until they come home and need medical or psychological treatment, then fuck those dudes because their services aren't required anymore.


Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 06 2013,10:28
< Yippie-kay-ay, motherfuckers >.
Posted by Leisher on Feb. 12 2013,08:10
< NBC News is running a blitz attack on guns. >

Journalism is dead. Anyone who says there is no bias in the media is a fucking idiot.

These pieces are straight opinion disguised as fact.

Disgusting.

If it weren't for guns, these people would be alive... No they wouldn't you fucking idiots. Guns aren't the only things that can be used to kill people. Domestic situations end with strangulation, poisoning, stabbings, etc. all the fucking time.

I also love that they cite criminal behavior in their statistics as if gun laws would prevent criminals from having guns or committing crimes with guns.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 12 2013,13:13
< Pelosi buries the needle on the hypocrite-o-meter >.
QUOTE
Pelosi responded that Democrats wanted concrete scientific evidence in order to write the best legislation possible, and countered that Wallace's assumption about violence in the media could be incorrect.

Just fucking wow.  You're claiming to be the party of science?  Granted, the dudes on the other side of the aisle are just as stupid, but come the fuck on, you're about as far from being as scientist as I am from being a Buddhist saint.  In the very next paragraph, you just shoot yourself down:

QUOTE
"I understand what you are saying," Pelosi said. "I'm a motherfucker, I'm a grandmotherfucker. But, they -- not Hollywood, but the evidence -- says that, in Japan, for example, they have the most violent games and the lowest death -- mortality -- from guns. I don't know what the explanation is for that except they may have good gun laws."

A) Because you exhaustively put every other factor through a series of rigourous scientific experiments?
B) The most violent?  How does one measure violence?  Litres of digital blood splashed per minute?  Heads exploded per hour?  Aren't we trying to be scientific here?
C) Where's your control group?
D) I'm sure the insane devotion that Japan shows to its thousands of years of history and culture have no effect.

Posted by thibodeaux on Feb. 12 2013,13:27
I bet that Japanese people in America commit gun crimes at about the same rate as Japanese people in Japan.

It's like the (supposed) quote from Friedman:
QUOTE
A Scandinavian economist once said to Milton Friedman, ‘In Scandinavia, we have no poverty’. Milton Friedman replied, ‘That’s interesting, because in America, among Scandinavians, we have no poverty, either’


But we must beware of thoughts such as these. We might not like the conclusions.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 12 2013,13:59
QUOTE
I bet that Japanese people in America commit gun crimes at about the same rate as Japanese people in Japan.

We talking someone that lived in Japan for 50 years, then comes over here?  Or are we talking someone with some clear Japanese ethnicity (both parents came over here, for example) that is an American?

Posted by thibodeaux on Feb. 12 2013,14:14

(Malcolm @ Feb. 12 2013,16:59)
QUOTE
We talking someone that lived in Japan for 50 years, then comes over here?  Or are we talking someone with some clear Japanese ethnicity (both parents came over here, for example) that is an American?

Nisei, sansei, whatever you want. As long as they're not Yakuza, I bet they're pretty well behaved.
Posted by TPRJones on Feb. 12 2013,14:55
I bet an American of Japanese descent that was raised in a primarily American way will have results that more closely match that of Americans than Japanese.

The differences like that among the races are not about genetics, they're about culture.  Some cultures are different from others.  Different cultures result in different outcomes.

Please note that I did not say better or worse, just different.  The former can be debated, the latter is clearly obvious.

Posted by thibodeaux on Feb. 12 2013,15:08
Social behavior has a very strong genetic component. Japanese act Japanese in part because of their genes. Ditto whites. Ditto blacks. I didn't want to believe it either, but it's pretty undeniable. Things like IQ, "big five" personality traits, time preference, etc. are all quite heritable (maybe 50%) and are all big contributors to how a person behaves in society.

That's not to say culture isn't PART of the equation. But it's not the entire thing.

Posted by TPRJones on Feb. 12 2013,16:38
Has that been tested by adoptive studies?  Like, it's not that they picked up the same habits from their parents type of heritable, but they learned it even spending their entire lives in a different sort of environment heritable?

I'd like to see those studies.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 12 2013,17:42

(thibodeaux @ Feb. 12 2013,17:08)
QUOTE
Social behavior has a very strong genetic component. Japanese act Japanese in part because of their genes. Ditto whites. Ditto blacks. I didn't want to believe it either, but it's pretty undeniable. Things like IQ, "big five" personality traits, time preference, etc. are all quite heritable (maybe 50%) and are all big contributors to how a person behaves in society.

That's not to say culture isn't PART of the equation. But it's not the entire thing.

A few things:

1.  Just because it is heritable doesn't necessarily mean it's a guaranteed pass to the next generation.  I've seen smart parents with kids dumber than a fucking piece of plywood.

2. If social behaviour gets dictated by genetics, than all the uprisings in history occur when the here and now trump any and all genetics.  Revolutions are war on status quo society.

3. Will I argue some people are expected to outperform their peers based on genetic stock?  Oh hell, no.  Some even do it.  Lots of them fall flat on their faces.

4. Even if one generation inherits these traits, it's entirely possible that environmental factors will kill any chance for development.

I'll give you that genetics figure into part of it, but I'm not giving it the dominant part, nor am I even giving it a significant part.  I'd say culture and, hell, even random chance figure into a larger part of things.



Posted by thibodeaux on Feb. 13 2013,06:15

(TPRJones @ Feb. 12 2013,19:38)
QUOTE
Has that been tested by adoptive studies?  Like, it's not that they picked up the same habits from their parents type of heritable, but they learned it even spending their entire lives in a different sort of environment heritable?

I'd like to see those studies.

I believe so, yes.

QUOTE
First Law. All human behavioral traits are heritable.

The First Law emerges from studies of twins, studies of adoptees, and (now) sibling genetic similarity studies. In short, when you look at people’s behavior, virtually without exception (with a few important ones which I’ll soon discuss), you find some effect of the genes on these traits. That is, identical twins reared apart are similar; identical twins are more similar than fraternal twins; biological siblings are more similar than adoptive siblings; siblings who share more DNA are more similar than those who share less. This is not just in the most talked about trait in HBD, IQ, nor is it just in broad personality traits (whether it be the on the Big Five, on the HEXACO, or on whatever model you want to use), but in one’s religious inclination, one’s political views (including one’s thoughts on topics such as abortion, the death penalty, or welfare), career/educational interests, even one’s degree of thinness/fatness (one’s body mass index, or BMI, which is actually 80% heritable, as heritable as height or IQ).


Lots of links to actual science provided:

[http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/all-human-behavioral-traits-are-heritable/]

Posted by GORDON on Feb. 13 2013,07:20
I met some half-siblings recently that I hadn't seen in over 20 years.  They were raised by my biological father, who I also hadn't seen in over 20 years.

They said I had the exact same mannerisms as him, even the way I sat while we were having lunch and talking.

So that was weird.  Suggests strong genetic influence.

Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 13 2013,07:24
< The "warrior gene." >  So, something like this?
Posted by thibodeaux on Feb. 14 2013,07:56
< Biden admits it won't work >
Posted by GORDON on Feb. 14 2013,08:01
Won't matter.  Only matters what Obama says, and Obama says we have a gun problem.  Marching orders have been given.


Posted by Troy on Feb. 14 2013,08:13
Totally off topic, but Biden looked like some kind of Pimp with the purple tie/glasses combo at the SotU. It was excellent.
Posted by TPRJones on Feb. 14 2013,10:16

(GORDON @ Feb. 13 2013,09:20)
QUOTE
Suggests strong genetic influence.

Unless you are about 21 years old, not necessarily.  It could also suggest that those mannerisms are developed during early childhood, at a time when you were still within his sphere of influence.

I'm not done reading through thib's link yet, though.

Posted by GORDON on Feb. 14 2013,10:17
Would have been VERY early childhood, up to about 6 months old.
Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 19 2013,10:38
< More info on psycho >.
QUOTE
Lanza was diagnosed as a young boy with sensory integration disorder, according to the Hartford Courant report. The disorder made it difficult for him to manage sights, sounds, smells, noise and pain.

So, difficulty with ... everything?

QUOTE
His mother tried to lessen his struggles with the disorder by informing others to prevent any difficult interactions.

Good job protecting him from all that difficulty that is encountered in reality.  I'm sure it meant he had ample good judgement built up from his own trial-and-error experiences when it came time for him to make up his own mind.

Posted by Leisher on Feb. 27 2013,06:47
< Women taking Joe Biden's advice. >

Just a humorous video pointing out that Joe Biden doesn't know shit.

Posted by Leisher on Feb. 27 2013,07:27
< Alaska appears to be passing an interesting pro-gun, anti-feds law... >
Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 27 2013,09:29
QUOTE
HB69 states, in part: “A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is possessed in this state or manufactured commercially or privately in this state and that remains in the state is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of the United States Congress to regulate interstate commerce as those items have not traveled in interstate commerce.”

The "in this state" part is interesting.  The more interesting part is the registration exemption, which would fall like a house of cards if the feds wanted to call their bluff.

That's mainly because this...
QUOTE
“The authority of the United States Congress to regulate interstate commerce in basic materials does not include authority to regulate firearms, firearm accessories, and ammunition possessed in this state or made in this state from those materials. Firearm accessories that are imported into this state from another state and that are subject to federal regulation as being in interstate commerce do not subject a firearm to federal regulation under interstate commerce because they are attached to or used in conjunction with a firearm in this state."

... doesn't work.  Replace every mention of guns with drugs or alcohol or tobacco (same thing).



Posted by TPRJones on Feb. 27 2013,10:43
Technically they are well within their rights here, if you go by the Constitution.

But then 90%+ of the federal government is technically unconstitutional, so that doesn't really seem to matter much.

EDIT: Especially when you consider the that "interstate commerce clause" is badly misunderstood.  "To regulate Commerce ... among the several States ..." was intended to mean regulating interactions between state governments, not to give the federal government power over every transaction that happens to cross a state boundary.



Posted by Leisher on Feb. 27 2013,13:38



Posted by Leisher on Feb. 28 2013,06:06
< Kansas is following Alaska's lead. >
Posted by Malcolm on Feb. 28 2013,07:10
Another state whose balls will retract when their federal corn subsidies are threatened.
Posted by Leisher on Mar. 01 2013,07:35
Interesting interview on gun control with a former secret service agent:

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 01 2013,08:30



Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 01 2013,08:40
QUOTE
"...doesn't require license or a registration."

Just give it time.  They'll move on to bullet registration after that.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 01 2013,12:53

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 04 2013,10:36
< Obviously, another reason why cops shouldn't own guns >.  Because if you save just one child by disarming every cop, it's worth it.  Give them nerf guns instead.  Think of the children, you bastards.
Posted by Cakedaddy on Mar. 04 2013,13:21
And besides, guns don't kill people < Poptarts do >.
Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 04 2013,14:01
QUOTE
A letter was sent home with students explaining that "a student used food to make an inappropriate gesture," the station reported.

Wow.

Posted by Leisher on Mar. 08 2013,12:39
< Michigan joins Alaska and Kansas. >
Posted by Leisher on Mar. 12 2013,07:49
What a cocksucker:


< And yes, it's true. He did. >



Posted by Leisher on Mar. 14 2013,07:45
I've read that Kentucky has passed the same sort of legislation that Kansas, Alaska, and Michigan have passed.
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 29 2013,05:11
< OMG SRLSY? >

QUOTE
A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds.



Posted by GORDON on Mar. 29 2013,06:29
That's a huge glove compartment.
Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 29 2013,07:07
QUOTE
Investigators found articles on other shootings and a holiday card containing a check made out to Adam Lanza for the purchase of a firearm, authored by his mother, Nancy Lanza.

What.  In.  The.  Fuck.

QUOTE
A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds.

Although, I think this sentence may trump the above one.



Posted by Troy on Mar. 29 2013,09:02
So... are those like drum clips? I've only ever seen those in movies, and I still thought they looked silly.

Over-under shotgun ftw.



Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 29 2013,10:13

That's an example of a shotty fed by a mag.

Whether or not he had a couple 35-round magazines (probably in his trunk, not glove box) is up for debate, mainly because I don't trust a member of the media to know the difference between a magazine for a gun and a magazine for reading.

Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 30 2013,09:38
< White Men Bad! >

I mean, the very first sentence...
QUOTE
Imagine if African American men and boys were committing mass shootings month after month, year after year.


Jesus God, the jokes just write themselves.

Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 30 2013,10:48
< Authors of this book here >.
QUOTE
Life, liberty, and happiness a noble vision, but our founders also handed down a powerful obstacle: hierarchical thinking. From childhood, we learn to rank people by the status society assigns them, rather than by their abilities and contributions.
...
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #142,870 in Books

I generally put "crap" at the bottom of my reading list, so I guess I'm suffering from hierarchical thinking, too.



Posted by GORDON on Mar. 30 2013,13:05
What that snippet leaves out is that our forefathers abandoned the hierarchy of nobility by birth, so that absolutely anyone could aspire as far as his talent could take him.  "Status" in this country is an imaginary construct, unlike nobility-by-birth.  Yes, structured racism used to exist, but we took care of all of that, by law, back in 1965ish.  

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 04 2013,13:03

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 05 2013,18:37
< They listened to her destroy their logic, and then they passed it. >
Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 05 2013,23:57
This country almost needs to get invaded before heads gets screwed on properly.
Posted by Leisher on Apr. 12 2013,10:19
< New "study" shows assault weapon killings up despite armed civilians. >

Conclusion reached by the author: so let's stop pretending we don't need a weapons ban.

Wow.

Either this is one of the worst examples of propaganda in the history of mankind or the writer is one of the most ignorant human beings to ever live.

Take your pick.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 22 2013,11:42
< T-shirts dangerous enough > to make students get sent home.
Posted by GORDON on Apr. 22 2013,11:44
QUOTE
Logan police arrested Marcum at the school last Thursday after he refused the teacher's order.  


Good stuff.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 29 2013,18:35
Someone put up a pro-second amendment billboard in Colorado...

... and some people are really pissed about it because the truth is embarrassing and inconvenient.

< http://www.denverpost.com/breakin....llboard >

Posted by Malcolm on May 08 2013,11:54
< Guns deaths decidedly down > over the past 2 decades.
Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 10 2014,10:20
< Kid's dad about as worthless as his mom >.
QUOTE
“You can’t get any more evil,” he told The New Yorker.

“How much do I beat up on myself about the fact that he’s my son? A lot,” he added.

Lanza, a vice president for GE Energy Financial Services who divorced Adam’s mom Nancy in 2009, revealed he hadn’t seen his child for two years before the shocking shooting.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 15 2014,11:30
< Suing the gun makers >.
QUOTE
The 40-page lawsuit calls the Bushmaster AR-15 used in the attacks a “military weapon” that was marketed to civilians, despite “no evidence that semiautomatic rifles are … necessary for legitimate self-defense by law-abiding citizens.”

The Bushmaster X-15 that Lanza used to carry out the attack was designed for mass-casualty assaults, the suit alleges, and is “essentially indistinguishable” from the military model, the M16. The manufacturer and sellers should have known about the “unreasonably high risk” the gun would be used in a mass shooting of that kind, the suit says.

Posted by Leisher on Dec. 15 2014,12:30
It'll fail like all the rest. Just a massive waste of time and money.

If your kid got run over by a drunk driver do you sue Ford? How about Budweiser?

Posted by Vince on Dec. 15 2014,12:53
As far as these idiots thinking you don't use an AR 15 for hunting, I'm getting a 10 round mag and a scope for mine so the wife can hunt w/ my 243 next year.
Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 18 2014,13:19
The the Liberals (whoever I don't even care) are circulating some stats about 200 "school shootings" since Newtown. Fuck it, call me racist: a bunch of these are at "historically black" colleges, or mostly black inner-city high schools, and it's not "school shootings" where some guy comes into kindergarten with a rifle and blows the kiddies away, it's some gangster caps another gangster in the parking lot of the football stadium.
Posted by Leisher on Dec. 18 2014,13:23
I know what you're talking about Thib. I saw the same report or graphic (however it was presented) and it was widely discredited. They included ANY incident with a firearm that occurred within or even near a school. Even if nobody involved in the incident was a student, teacher, or worker at the school.

And when I say "near", I mean within a few miles.

Propaganda.

Posted by Vince on Dec. 18 2014,13:31
I saw that as well.  One was a domestic thing where a teacher was filing for divorce and her husband showed up and killed her at work.  Like this wouldn't have happened except she was at a school?

Stupid.

Posted by Malcolm on Dec. 18 2014,14:31
QUOTE
Like this wouldn't have happened except she was at a school?

Shitty hours + low pay = marital tension.

Posted by Malcolm on Aug. 03 2015,11:23
< Most likely > looking at lethal injection.
Posted by Malcolm on Aug. 24 2015,10:19

(Malcolm @ Aug. 03 2015,13:23)
QUOTE
< Most likely > looking at lethal injection.

< One juror > kept him from getting killed.
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