Topic: Stupid Gay Marriage Amendment in NC
started by: thibodeaux
Posted by thibodeaux on May 04 2012,17:43
I couldn't find the thread where I mentioned this before. I really don't give a crap about this amendment one way or another, but the sheer annoying bullshit that the pro-gay-marriage people are posting on facebook is just nauseating. Apparently if you vote for this amendment, you hate not only gays, but women and children, too. Oh, and the economy: our state wil no longer have jobs if you vote for this amendment.Here are a couple of posts from my "friends":
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I actually have peers planning to vote for amendment one. I really thought it would just be curmudgeons and country folk!
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On May 8, rednecks and old people will vote to define North Carolina as a typical, bigoted, deep south state.
Posted by TPRJones on May 04 2012,18:44
They're going a bit over the top, sure, but it is a very messy law as written. It even goes so far as to make it so that a same-sex married couple from another state cannot under this law be treated as married by any government agency or legal entity (including corporations) in NC. Don't expect many gay tourists, because if one of them ends up in the hospital it will be required by law that spouse be treated as no more than a friend and instead other family members will be the ones to make health care decisions, regardless of the wishes of the patient and his/her spouse.The implications for visiting same-sex couples with adopted children can be even messier. While I doubt that any over-zealous CPS officer is likely to confiscate visiting children just because, since there is officially no marriage and the relationship they have is considered inappropriate for adoptive families in NC, technically they could. At a minimum they could make a whole legal mess for them if they wanted to. And again, it's not likely to be common or anything, but I for one prefer government agencies to have less power to screw with people at will rather than more.
It does specifically state that this law does not effect private contracts, however Wills and Powers of Attorney and other similar instruments are not legally contracts. They're a special class that will be voided by this law, regardless of the laws of the state in which they were written.
Mostly I find it funny that you can replace "same-sex" with "inter-racial" in any law or argument made against gay marriage, and suddenly it's like you are in the 1950s again. I have yet to see a single reason given to outlaw same-sex marriage that is not exactly like one given against inter-racial marriage back when it was still cool to be racist.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 04 2012,20:18
I dunno, maybe the fact that there has never, ever, in the history of the world, been gay "marriage" makes it different. That is not the case for inter-racial marriage.As for the scare tactic that gay couples won't come to the state...really? Ok, so what? What percentage of the population is that? 1% MAYBE?
Posted by TPRJones on May 04 2012,21:47
I don't intend for it to be a scare tactic. Just analyzing the law and it's implications.And there are records of plenty of gay marriages from ancient Greece and pre-Christian Rome. Also China. That's hardly "never ever in the history of the world". Not that I consider maintaining a bigoted status quo to be a reasonable argument on it's own.
Posted by GORDON on May 04 2012,22:00
I don't think any marriage should be recognized by the state. if someone has legal next of kin status, then that should be it, the end.
Posted by TPRJones on May 04 2012,22:19
I'm fine with that solution as well. As long as it's applied equally to all consenting citizens of legal age.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 08 2012,16:40
I wonder if they'll publish demographic data about who voted for/against. Because the thing that The Left hates to admit: < Black people are anti-gay-marriage. >
Posted by TheCatt on May 08 2012,17:32
That'd be nice, but how exactly do they do that?At any rate, it's gonna pass. Bah.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 08 2012,17:34
(TheCatt @ May 08 2012,20:32)
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That'd be nice, but how exactly do they do that?
I dunno. Exit polling I guess.
Posted by GORDON on May 08 2012,17:44
(thibodeaux @ May 08 2012,19:40)
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I wonder if they'll publish demographic data about who voted for/against. Because the thing that The Left hates to admit: < Black people are anti-gay-marriage. >
I think California's gay marriage thing was Prop 8, if I recall, and it lost big because of all the Catholic Mexicans in the state.
But again, shhhhhhh. Must only claim the red states hate the gays.
Posted by TheCatt on May 08 2012,18:24
According to the article, <50% of whites supported prop 8, 53% of Hispanics did, and 70% of blacks did.
Posted by GORDON on May 08 2012,18:32
But, aren't there more hispanics than anything in California?And I don't even remember what being for/against prop 8 was which.
Posted by Troy on May 08 2012,18:35
Apparently this amendment passing results in my 2 year old niece losing her health care. Nice job, NC.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 08 2012,18:55
What? Obama gave everybody health care. You liar.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 09 2012,03:25
HAHA! And of course the people of FB who hate bigotry, intolerance, and hate are the ones moaning about the awful toothless inbred rednecks.
Posted by GORDON on May 09 2012,04:32
So, my new understanding is that gay marriage was already illegal in NC, but now there has just passed an amendment to the state constitution making gay marriage illegal, so absolutely nothing has changed regarding the status of gay marriage?Is that right?
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,04:59
(thibodeaux @ May 09 2012,06:25)
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HAHA! And of course the people of FB who hate bigotry, intolerance, and hate are the ones moaning about the awful toothless inbred rednecks.
Mine too, I really, really cannot stand it.
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,05:00
(GORDON @ May 09 2012,07:32)
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So, my new understanding is that gay marriage was already illegal in NC, but now there has just passed an amendment to the state constitution making gay marriage illegal, so absolutely nothing has changed regarding the status of gay marriage?
Is that right?
Is that right?
As far as I know, yes. There's been a scare campaign that unwed couples and other such relationships could lose whatever legal/benefits status that they had, but I have no idea what the truth on that is.
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,05:26
A gay friend says this will cause her daughter to lose health benefits, and was pretty upset. Guess we'll find out if this is true later.
Posted by GORDON on May 09 2012,05:26
^^^^ you beat me to itI'm just curious about why Troy's 2 year old niece no longer has subsidized health care. Was there another Bill on the ballot denying subsidized health care for 2 year old girls?
Posted by TPRJones on May 09 2012,06:19
It not only makes state-recognized gay marriage not possible in NC (which was the status quo before), it also makes it so that gay marriages from other states cannot be recognized in any way (traditionally states respected each others laws on this matter for visiting couples, at least in theory), and further makes it so that there can be no private recognition of gay marriage, either, for things like "domestic partner" insurance and wills and powers of attorney and whatnot. If I had to guess, I'd guess Troy's niece was insured by the non-blood-relation father/mother in a "domestic partnership" relationship, and now she's just some unrelated random kid that lives under the same roof instead of the step-daughter/adopted daughter/whatever of whoever has the insurance and thus no longer can be insured on that insurance plan. It's now illegal to recognize that a family might exist there so it's illegal to insure the kid.
It basically says "Not only do we not want to have gay marriage here, we don't want anyone in our borders to do anything at all even closely related to gay marriage, regardless of where you came from or who you are".
It's interesting in some of the particulars of how it can be interpreted. In NC it is perfectly fine for you to give power of attorney to your same-sex roommate for whatever reason and have no problems. But if it can be demonstrated that you two were gaying it up together, then that power of attorney becomes null and void under the new law.
Posted by GORDON on May 09 2012,06:47
I see.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 09 2012,07:24
Finally:QUOTE
I generally keep my political beliefs to myself, it's just a choice I make so I haven't spoken out on Amendment 1 but after seeing a lot of comments yesterday on fb I feel the need to say something. If the vote didn't go your way, please show some class. Taking the time to question the pro voter's education, dental hygiene, religion, or just insulting the entire state doesn't strengthen your argument at all. If you truly believe that no one should be discriminated against regardless of their beliefs, race, religion or sexual orientation then please stop with the hateful comments about the other side when everyone has a right to their own beliefs. When you say all of these hateful things about people that have opinions that are different from yours, you fill your heart with the same hatred that you accuse them of having in their hearts. And for the record, because I know someone will react before thinking about this statement, I voted against Amendment 1. I am very sad that we all can't be treated equally no matter what we believe in, but I won't let hate take over my heart.
Posted by GORDON on May 09 2012,07:30
It's ok to call southerners inbred redneck toothless hicks because it is true, and you do them no favors by hiding the truth from them. You aren't beating them down, you are trying to raise them up.Is their mindset.
Posted by Troy on May 09 2012,07:49
(TheCatt @ May 09 2012,05:00)
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There's been a scare campaign that unwed couples and other such relationships could lose whatever legal/benefits status that they had, but I have no idea what the truth on that is.
This. Apparently it wasn't a scare tactic. I still don't know how it works exactly.
Unwed family, brother with insurance, mother without.
Posted by thibodeaux on May 09 2012,07:53
Seems like there's a workaround there.
Posted by Troy on May 09 2012,07:59
(thibodeaux @ May 09 2012,07:53)
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Seems like there's a workaround there.
"Shotgun Wedding Amendment"
Nice.
Posted by TPRJones on May 09 2012,08:09
Honestly, the ones ultimately responsible for the loss are the NC voters that cared about fighting it but didn't vote. The handful of counties that ended up opposing it - all heavily urban Democrat counties, of course - also had the lowest voter turnout in the state. Apparently they don't care enough about fighting bigotry to show up to stop it.
Posted by Troy on May 09 2012,08:14
(TPRJones @ May 09 2012,08:09)
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Honestly, the ones ultimately responsible for the loss are the NC voters that cared about fighting it but didn't vote. The handful of counties that ended up opposing it - all heavily urban Democrat counties, of course - also had the lowest voter turnout in the state. Apparently they don't care enough about fighting bigotry to show up to stop it.
Yeah, if only those people had been told in church how to vote the Sunday before.
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,12:37
< Obama's support for gay marriage comes out of the closet. >He must really think he has this one in the bag.
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President Obama, marking the end of a prolonged "evolution" on the issue, now favors allowing homosexual couples to marry, he said in a television interview Wednesday.
The announcement comes days after Vice President Joe Biden’s comments that he was "absolutely comfortable" with gay marriage put new pressure on Obama to clarify his position on the issue.
Obama told ABC's Robin Roberts Wednesday: "Over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors, when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or Marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that 'don't ask, don't tell' is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married."
The announcement comes days after Vice President Joe Biden’s comments that he was "absolutely comfortable" with gay marriage put new pressure on Obama to clarify his position on the issue.
Obama told ABC's Robin Roberts Wednesday: "Over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors, when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or Marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that 'don't ask, don't tell' is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married."
Posted by GORDON on May 09 2012,12:47
Too bad he couldn't go to NC and have an opinion before the voting yesterday.
Posted by Leisher on May 09 2012,13:00
Interesting move. He risks pissing off his black voters, but let's be honest 98% = the kind of racist votes that won't be lost because of this.
He won't steal many votes from Romney.
He will ignite a voter base that comes out in droves to defeat gay marriage. Seriously, they dominated California of all places.
I think Biden forced Obama's hand, and I guarantee you there are folks in Obama's camp who think Biden should be replaced.
Oh, I also don't buy his support at all. I think it's political bullshit. Why? Because I know he has no respect for women. People who don't respect women aren't going to have love for gay folk.
If the Republicans were smart, they'd force his hand even farther by asking why he hasn't pushed for a federal law making gay marriage legal. They'd do this via media plants, of course.
It doesn't matter how we on this board feel about the issue or what other folks believe. What matters is the huge number of voters who turned out to destroy gay marriage proposals in the last few elections. Thus, if the Republicans force the issue Obama will have two moves:
1. Weasel out of an attempt at a law and prove he's full of shit.
2. Push for the law and pray voters don't punish him for it.
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,13:29
Want Obama to lose... but am pro-gay marriage... so torn.
Posted by TPRJones on May 09 2012,13:37
(Leisher @ May 09 2012,15:00)
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Obama will have two three moves:
3. Pray that this whole thing turns into a civil rights issue big enough in scope and ferocity to match the racial activism of the 60s and bring out young and Democratic voters in droves.
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,13:41
(GORDON @ May 09 2012,15:47)
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Too bad he couldn't go to NC and have an opinion before the voting yesterday.
He had to wait for new polls to come out
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A Gallup Poll released Tuesday indicated half of Americans believe same-sex marriages should be recognized by law as valid, with 48% saying such marriages should not be legal.
Posted by Leisher on May 09 2012,13:55
Obama will not be starting any civil rights movement. He's far too polarizing. And has anyone heard from the last movement? Occupy, I'm looking at you.as for the polls, I don't trust them. Gay marriage proposals across the nation didn't lose closely, they got destroyed. Somebody is lying or the pollsters are skewing numbers somehow. I've mentioned "Cosmic Slop" before and the first story in it reflects this very accurately. The aliens come to earth and offer us gold, the cure for cancer, and an end to pollution but in return they want all the black people. They don't ever specify why. Polls prior to the vote is a landslide to not trade our black people to the aliens. When the election comes its a landslide the other way. One of the main characters talks about how people will lie to a pollster to avoid looking bad, but in the privacy of the voting booth they don't need to lie.
Posted by GORDON on May 09 2012,14:01
(TheCatt @ May 09 2012,16:41)
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(GORDON @ May 09 2012,15:47)
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Too bad he couldn't go to NC and have an opinion before the voting yesterday.
He had to wait for new polls to come out
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A Gallup Poll released Tuesday indicated half of Americans believe same-sex marriages should be recognized by law as valid, with 48% saying such marriages should not be legal.
Yeah, too bad Obama is a politician and not just a decent human being.
He was in danger of earning my respect. Close call!
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,14:15
(Leisher @ May 09 2012,16:55)
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Obama will not be starting any civil rights movement. He's far too polarizing. And has anyone heard from the last movement? Occupy, I'm looking at you.
as for the polls, I don't trust them. Gay marriage proposals across the nation didn't lose closely, they got destroyed. Somebody is lying or the pollsters are skewing numbers somehow. I've mentioned "Cosmic Slop" before and the first story in it reflects this very accurately. The aliens come to earth and offer us gold, the cure for cancer, and an end to pollution but in return they want all the black people. They don't ever specify why. Polls prior to the vote is a landslide to not trade our black people to the aliens. When the election comes its a landslide the other way. One of the main characters talks about how people will lie to a pollster to avoid looking bad, but in the privacy of the voting booth they don't need to lie.
as for the polls, I don't trust them. Gay marriage proposals across the nation didn't lose closely, they got destroyed. Somebody is lying or the pollsters are skewing numbers somehow. I've mentioned "Cosmic Slop" before and the first story in it reflects this very accurately. The aliens come to earth and offer us gold, the cure for cancer, and an end to pollution but in return they want all the black people. They don't ever specify why. Polls prior to the vote is a landslide to not trade our black people to the aliens. When the election comes its a landslide the other way. One of the main characters talks about how people will lie to a pollster to avoid looking bad, but in the privacy of the voting booth they don't need to lie.
I think it's partly an issue of concentration. If 50% of the population lives in 10 states, and support it wildly (Massachusetts, New York, Illinois - I'm just conjecturing here), but the other 40 are against it, then it looks like 80% of American is against it.
Posted by TPRJones on May 09 2012,14:34
(Leisher @ May 09 2012,15:55)
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Obama will not be starting any civil rights movement.
For the record, I had no intention of even hinting that Obama might do something useful. Just that he'd pray someone else would.
Posted by TheCatt on May 09 2012,17:02
QUOTE
African-Americans voted 2-1 in favor of the North Carolina amendment banning gay marriage Tuesday, but the White House is betting that black voters there and beyond will stick with the president, despite broad resistance to legalization.
Read more: < http://www.politico.com/news....] >
Overall state: 61 - 39
(thibodeaux @ May 10 2012,06:21)
LOL... I wanted to post something like "Racist" to every one of the posts I saw decrying the votes for A1.
Read more: < http://www.politico.com/news....] >
Overall state: 61 - 39
Posted by thibodeaux on May 10 2012,03:21
Bet they're inbred, stupid, redneck blacks, though.
Posted by TheCatt on May 10 2012,04:29
(thibodeaux @ May 10 2012,06:21)
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Bet they're inbred, stupid, redneck blacks, though.
LOL... I wanted to post something like "Racist" to every one of the posts I saw decrying the votes for A1.