Topic: Greece
started by: Leisher
Posted by Leisher on Feb. 21 2012,06:19
< Another 170B in bailouts. >Seriously, how long can they keep throwing free money at Greece hoping the problem goes away?
A long term solution means Greece has to dump their socialist policies, and the residents of Greece need to understand they might actually have to work for a living. Vacations aren't jobs...
Posted by TPRJones on Feb. 21 2012,06:33
Leonidas would be ashamed.
Posted by TheCatt on Feb. 21 2012,06:33
Yeah, they've already done the socialist policy dumping... that's what all the riots are about. The bailouts are all contingent upon the end of their policies.
Posted by GORDON on Feb. 21 2012,08:14
Socialism can work as long as the right people are in charge, and other people are willing to bail them out forever.
Posted by TPRJones on Feb. 21 2012,09:26
Socialism can work forever only with infinite resources, or with access to a more dynamic free economy to suckle off of.It can never be efficient enough to produce the access materials required to sustain itself otherwise.
Posted by GORDON on Feb. 21 2012,10:52
And you need full participation so up go the walls and barbed wire and gulags to keep people in.
Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 28 2015,14:43
< Banks closed tomorrow. >
Posted by GORDON on Jun. 28 2015,14:51
I wonder how they keep the entire country from just using Paypal as a bank.
Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 28 2015,15:45
The official currency of Greece: bitcoin.
Posted by GORDON on Jun. 28 2015,15:58
Seriously, though. Greece would seem to be prime for the paypal people to do a PR blitz about how THEIR bank wont be stealing your drachmas. I'm sure their government probably has a law against using foreign banks or something.
Posted by Vince on Jun. 28 2015,17:09
Greece is pissing me off. They were supposed to play nice for another 6 months or so.
Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 28 2015,17:14
Bah. This is comedy gold. If the British hasn't stolen all their artifacts, they could've sold them off.
Posted by GORDON on Jun. 28 2015,17:15
(Vince @ Jun. 28 2015,20:09)
QUOTE
Greece is pissing me off. They were supposed to play nice for another 6 months or so.
I think you're safe. It'll be at least 3 months or so before anything domino effects, if that's going to happen.
Posted by Vince on Jun. 28 2015,19:10
That makes me safe to get my house on the market. But right now the average time on the market for houses in my neighborhood is just over 100 days. So I want them to play nice for 6 months.
Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 28 2015,19:42
I don't think Greece is going to hit the US very hard. I wouldn't worry about it, Vince.Even if the entire Greek economy disappeared, that's only 2% of the entire European GDP.
Gordon -> Paypal isn't a bank. And it doesn't want to be one.
But I agree with Malcolm, this is a nice PR scene for bitcoin.
Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 28 2015,19:43
Here's the market reaction so far. Not so massive:QUOTE
Asian markets quickly entered negative territory on Monday, led by Japan's benchmark Nikkei index, which dropped 2.4% in the first few minutes of trading.
Australia ASX All Ordinaries was down nearly 2%, while Seoul's KOSPI Composite lost 1.6% at the open.
The euro tumbled against other major currencies, losing 2% against the Japanese yen and 1.3% against the dollar.
In the U.S., stock futures were pointing to a sharply lower open on Monday, with major indexes heading for losses of 1.3% to 1.5%.
Australia ASX All Ordinaries was down nearly 2%, while Seoul's KOSPI Composite lost 1.6% at the open.
The euro tumbled against other major currencies, losing 2% against the Japanese yen and 1.3% against the dollar.
In the U.S., stock futures were pointing to a sharply lower open on Monday, with major indexes heading for losses of 1.3% to 1.5%.
Posted by GORDON on Jun. 28 2015,19:45
(TheCatt @ Jun. 28 2015,22:42)
QUOTE
Gordon -> Paypal isn't a bank. And it doesn't want to be one.
They keep sending me emails telling me to get an account with an interest rate. Maybe I should pay better attention to see what the hell they are talking about. I use paypal so infrequently that I let their shit go to spam, and only check my spam folder when I send money, so I haven't read those solicitation emails for a while.
Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 28 2015,19:56
Stay away from PayPal.
Posted by Vince on Jun. 28 2015,20:08
(TheCatt @ Jun. 28 2015,21:42)
QUOTE
I don't think Greece is going to hit the US very hard. I wouldn't worry about it, Vince.
Even if the entire Greek economy disappeared, that's only 2% of the entire European GDP.
Even if the entire Greek economy disappeared, that's only 2% of the entire European GDP.
Greece by itself I'm not too worried about. There's talk of a possible domino effect in the EU. But I don't know. Guess we might see soon enough.
Posted by GORDON on Jun. 29 2015,06:07
Puerto Rico comes out of nowhere with an unpayable debt. Vince's plan get a little shakier.< http://www.nytimes.com/2015....le.html >
Makes me think there are some rich ass mother fuckers in PR. $72 billion in debt for a country of 3.6 million people. That's some impressive corruption.
Posted by Vince on Jun. 29 2015,06:49
They are pretty much a 3rd world country. In order to try to get businesses to report their sales they implemented a lottery where every receipt from businesses has to have a lotto number from the government and they have a monthly drawing. An effort to get the customers to help them police. We have a few stores there.
Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 29 2015,07:23
QUOTE
In June, Puerto Rico hired Steven W. Rhodes, the retired federal judge who oversaw Detroit’s bankruptcy case, as an adviser. The government is also consulting with a group of bankers from Citigroup who advised Detroit on a $1.5 billion debt exchange with certain creditors.
Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 29 2015,08:10
(GORDON @ Jun. 29 2015,09:07)
QUOTE
Puerto Rico comes out of nowhere with an unpayable debt. Vince's plan get a little shakier.
< http://www.nytimes.com/2015....le.html >
Makes me think there are some rich ass mother fuckers in PR. $72 billion in debt for a country of 3.6 million people. That's some impressive corruption.
< http://www.nytimes.com/2015....le.html >
Makes me think there are some rich ass mother fuckers in PR. $72 billion in debt for a country of 3.6 million people. That's some impressive corruption.
That's not out of nowhere. PR has been on the map for a couple of years.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 05 2015,14:02
< Bye bye Greece >
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 05 2015,16:42
QUOTE
More than 60% heeded left-wing Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras' call to vote "no." He hopes to force Europe to hand over more money with less austerity attached, and cancel some of Greece's enormous debt.
Thousands of Greeks celebrated in the streets of Athens after the vote on Sunday.
Thousands of Greeks celebrated in the streets of Athens after the vote on Sunday.
I guess that sounds better than "thousands of Greeks inexplicably took to the streets to celebrate their impending economic suffocation and stagnation."
QUOTE
But many Greeks have had enough of years of cuts to wages and pensions. They would rather reclaim control of their economy by leaving the eurozone and returning to the drachma.
Because someone needs to give the Zimbabwean dollar a run for its money. *** rimshot *** But seriously, does it matter if they're in or out of the EU? Who's going to loan them more?
Posted by Vince on Jul. 05 2015,16:53
Those bastards
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 05 2015,17:08
It's weird that the entitled/no accountability/Millennial generation happened in Greece, too.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 05 2015,18:42
(GORDON @ Jul. 05 2015,19:08)
QUOTE
It's weird that the entitled/no accountability/Millennial generation happened in Greece, too.
Europe has been an entitlement continent for some time now. Greece just ran out of cash first. Only took them a couple centuries. Not bad pacing.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 05 2015,19:20
And I like how the place gets thousand of Muslim African refugees every day.The wife wants to vacation in Europe..... I told her the only place I'd consider is Germany, specifically Bavaria. The rest of it is crawling.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 05 2015,20:40
Switzerland. Only because everyone owns a rifle.
Posted by Troy on Jul. 05 2015,22:42
I really like Amsterdam and most cities in Germany.
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 05 2015,23:02
(TheCatt @ Jun. 28 2015,19:56)
QUOTE
Stay away from PayPal.
Why?
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 06 2015,05:27
(Alhazad @ Jul. 06 2015,02:02)
QUOTE
(TheCatt @ Jun. 28 2015,19:56)
QUOTE
Stay away from PayPal.
Why?
Various horror stories of people having their money frozen, etc.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 06 2015,10:14
Think is all just a clever way for Greece to get the whole world to do anal.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 06 2015,12:39
< Or not >.QUOTE
In a move sure to increase pressure on Greece’s flailing banks, the European Central Bank on Monday decided not to expand an emergency assistance program, raising fears that Greece could soon go completely bankrupt.
The move put a swift crimp on Greek leaders’ jubilation after winning a landslide endorsement from their citizens to reject Europe’s austerity demands and seek a new bailout bargain. Now they must seek a bargain before the money runs out within days, which would likely force them off the euro.
The move put a swift crimp on Greek leaders’ jubilation after winning a landslide endorsement from their citizens to reject Europe’s austerity demands and seek a new bailout bargain. Now they must seek a bargain before the money runs out within days, which would likely force them off the euro.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 06 2015,13:30
F U Greece.I still think a deal will be worked out, but I also think a deal should not be worked out.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 06 2015,15:14
Posted by Vince on Jul. 07 2015,07:26
(TheCatt @ Jul. 06 2015,15:30)
QUOTE
F U Greece.
I still think a deal will be worked out, but I also think a deal should not be worked out.
I still think a deal will be worked out, but I also think a deal should not be worked out.
I think they'll get it worked out, but I don't think in the long run it will matter. I think all of this is like the story of the boy plugging the dike. So they'll work it out and delay the flood that's coming.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 07 2015,07:27
Do you get the impression Greece doesn't even care, they figure they can get unlimited money from the EU and they know it?
Posted by Vince on Jul. 07 2015,07:33
Honestly I think they're suffering from a normalcy bias. They think it will all work out somehow and no one will have to feel any pain to make it happen. Most everyone that was alive and old enough to remember the great depression is dead. No one understands from experience how bad things can get. I think most people are relating to their personal experience and the worst they've even lived through was a downturn that lasted a year or two and they were unemployed for a while, but the government services were still there.I don't think most people can comprehend the government safety net being gone as well.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 07 2015,07:37
I think the people behind the money have to let Greece fail and its people suffer. If they don't, they basically tell the entire world "Don't worry about paying your loans. There's really nothing we can do to you."
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 07 2015,07:37
I don't think the socialist EU is willing to let Greece fail, because it will make people think socialism doesn't work.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 07 2015,07:39
But...it doesn't...
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 07 2015,07:43
With an opinion like that you are obviously racist.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 07 2015,10:11
< "Good job," > says man whose country hasn't seen a new car since the '50s.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 07 2015,11:58
Not the endorsement one would want. For all the talk about how superior Euros are compared to us, it seems to me their work ethic is pretty shitty.
They seem to want to vacation more, work less, and have the government run their lives.
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 07 2015,14:55
(Leisher @ Jul. 07 2015,11:58)
QUOTE
Not the endorsement one would want.
For all the talk about how superior Euros are compared to us, it seems to me their work ethic is pretty shitty.
They seem to want to vacation more, work less, and have the government run their lives.
For all the talk about how superior Euros are compared to us, it seems to me their work ethic is pretty shitty.
They seem to want to vacation more, work less, and have the government run their lives.
I already want two-thirds of that.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 07 2015,14:59
(Alhazad @ Jul. 07 2015,17:55)
QUOTE
(Leisher @ Jul. 07 2015,11:58)
QUOTE
Not the endorsement one would want.
For all the talk about how superior Euros are compared to us, it seems to me their work ethic is pretty shitty.
They seem to want to vacation more, work less, and have the government run their lives.
For all the talk about how superior Euros are compared to us, it seems to me their work ethic is pretty shitty.
They seem to want to vacation more, work less, and have the government run their lives.
I already want two-thirds of that.
Me too, but they think everyone should get that, and their economy still function properly.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 07 2015,17:01
QUOTE
Merkel said Greece would need to spell out -- by Thursday -- much more comprehensive reforms than those in the last bailout Athens recently walked away from.
Tuesday's meetings got off to a bad start when new Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakolotos turned up without a written proposal, saying only that it would be delivered by Wednesday.
The mood soured further when Tsipras, the prime minister, asked for temporary help to allow Greece to meet a crucial debt repayment to the European Central Bank on July 20. Merkel made clear he had it the wrong way round -- any kind of emergency funding could only follow a Greek commitment to a comprehensive rescue program.
Tuesday's meetings got off to a bad start when new Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakolotos turned up without a written proposal, saying only that it would be delivered by Wednesday.
The mood soured further when Tsipras, the prime minister, asked for temporary help to allow Greece to meet a crucial debt repayment to the European Central Bank on July 20. Merkel made clear he had it the wrong way round -- any kind of emergency funding could only follow a Greek commitment to a comprehensive rescue program.
At least Merkel's going about it the right way so far.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 07 2015,18:25
Greece is the college student that goes to the TA the day before it's due and hopes the homework gets done for him.QUOTE
Merkel made clear he had it the wrong way round -- any kind of emergency funding could only follow a Greek commitment to a comprehensive rescue program.
Fuckin' a, German Janet Reno.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 08 2015,07:53
< Damn. >
Posted by Alhazad on Jul. 08 2015,12:08
I really like Polandball comics.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 08 2015,12:58
Ever just wonder where all the money goes?Billions pumped into Greece, but now they're all broke. Where did the money go?
Trillions pumped into the poor in America, yet America has more poor than ever. Where did the money go?
The Lannisters, Tyrells, and the Iron Bank have pumped millions into the coffers of Westeros, yet now King's Landing is broke. Where did the money go?
What's at the bottom of the money hole?
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 08 2015,13:39
The oligarchy gets it or it's making its way to other countries very quickly at deficit.
Posted by Vince on Jul. 08 2015,14:19
(GORDON @ Jul. 08 2015,14:58)
QUOTE
Ever just wonder where all the money goes?
Billions pumped into Greece, but now they're all broke. Where did the money go?
Trillions pumped into the poor in America, yet America has more poor than ever. Where did the money go?
The Lannisters, Tyrells, and the Iron Bank have pumped millions into the coffers of Westeros, yet now King's Landing is broke. Where did the money go?
What's at the bottom of the money hole?
Billions pumped into Greece, but now they're all broke. Where did the money go?
Trillions pumped into the poor in America, yet America has more poor than ever. Where did the money go?
The Lannisters, Tyrells, and the Iron Bank have pumped millions into the coffers of Westeros, yet now King's Landing is broke. Where did the money go?
What's at the bottom of the money hole?
A good chunk of the money feeds the bureaucracy that administers it
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 09 2015,22:58
< Latest updates. >
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 10 2015,04:25
I'm not sure how this statementQUOTE
Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis told a business conference Thursday that "the choices we have are tough ... but the worst, the most humiliating and unbearable is an agreement that will surrender, loot and subjugate our people and this country."
squares with this statement
QUOTE
Greece is seeking 53.5 billion euros ($59 billion) as part of a new bailout package,
I'm pretty sure someone giving you $60 billion doesn't make you looted.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 11 2015,08:18
A Portuguese, a Greek, and a Spaniard go into a brothel. Who pays? Germany.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 11 2015,09:31
That country is acting so fucking stupidly, I say let it crash.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 11 2015,19:10
(Malcolm @ Jul. 11 2015,11:31)
QUOTE
That country is acting so fucking stupidly, I say let it crash.
< Germany agrees with Malcolm >.
QUOTE
The German government has begun preparations for Greece to be ejected from the eurozone, as the European Union faces 24 hours to rescue the single currency project from the brink of collapse.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 12 2015,07:21
< No deal yet. >
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 13 2015,06:07
< Deal reached. >QUOTE
Before it can get 85 billion euros ($95.07 billion) in bailout cash and support for its banks to reopen, the Greek government will have to pass a raft of austerity measures that include sales tax increases, reforms to pensions, and labor market reforms.
Greece will be on a tight timetable to implement its reforms — a reflection of how little its creditors trust the government to honor a deal. Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras infuriated his European partners last month when he called for a popular vote against economic reforms the creditors has proposed.
The Greek people voted against those proposals, but will be horrified to see that they now face even tougher measures.
Greece will be on a tight timetable to implement its reforms — a reflection of how little its creditors trust the government to honor a deal. Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras infuriated his European partners last month when he called for a popular vote against economic reforms the creditors has proposed.
The Greek people voted against those proposals, but will be horrified to see that they now face even tougher measures.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 13 2015,06:57
So does Greece get a new government and reject the proposals again?
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 13 2015,07:15
(TheCatt @ Jul. 13 2015,08:57)
QUOTE
So does Greece get a new government and reject the proposals again?
Headline:
"Greeks rebel for right to go bankrupt."
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 13 2015,12:42
< Greece is all Germany's fault... >Apparently, Greece is a business utopia and all of its policies work, they're just being sabotaged by the Germans.
Those same Germans who didn't want to bail them out a third time.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 13 2015,13:01
QUOTE
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has negotiated a third bailout for Greece with its Eurozone partners. The Greek Parliament should reject it, dump the euro and reintroduce the drachma.
With my best Jules Winfield voice, "I dare you."
QUOTE
Thanks to Schauble designed austerity and reforms, Greece’s economy has contracted 25 percent, sovereign debt has soared from 130 to 180 percent of GDP, and more than 100 billion euros or about 35 percent of bank loans are now classified as nonperforming.
Fucking wow.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 13 2015,14:21
(Leisher @ Jul. 13 2015,15:42)
QUOTE
< Greece is all Germany's fault... >
Apparently, Greece is a business utopia and all of its policies work, they're just being sabotaged by the Germans.
Those same Germans who didn't want to bail them out a third time.
Apparently, Greece is a business utopia and all of its policies work, they're just being sabotaged by the Germans.
Those same Germans who didn't want to bail them out a third time.
I think you're mis-reading the article, or misinterpreting.
The gist of the article is "The euro is dumb for Greece, and they will always suffer in it." Not that this is explicitly Germany's fault, but that this is the way that common currencies will always be for countries with such disparate economic conditions.
This is probably the argument to which I'm most sympathetic. But, I also wrote a 10-page economics paper for my degree basically saying that Euro = bad for many countries.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 13 2015,15:19
Granted, there are huge economic diffs between Greece (or any Mediterranean country) and Germany (or any western European country), but Greece has been living beyond its means for some time now. Tax evasion is enforced over there about as steadfastly as jaywalking is over here.
Posted by Leisher on Jul. 13 2015,20:11
QUOTE
common currencies will always be for countries with such disparate economic conditions.
I don't disagree with that, but I felt the article was strongly anti-Germany and other northern Euro countries, and pro socialist southern Euro countries.
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 14 2015,07:35
< "Cast into slavery." >
Posted by Malcolm on Jul. 17 2015,10:17
< Deal >.
Posted by GORDON on Jul. 17 2015,10:21
Greece: But don't worry, I swear I wont cum in your mouth.EU: knows it is about to get a mouthful of cum but can't help it
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 15 2015,18:57
(GORDON @ Jul. 07 2015,10:27)
QUOTE
Do you get the impression Greece doesn't even care, they figure they can get unlimited money from the EU and they know it?
< http://news.yahoo.com/greece-night-debate-bailout-043559778.html >
Posted by TheCatt on Aug. 15 2015,19:45
6 months of time wasted so Greece could say "Fuck you, Europe!" and Europe could say "Bend over, Greece!" and Greece says "Ok you win".
Posted by Leisher on Aug. 20 2015,09:01
< Prime Minister is resigning. >
Posted by TheCatt on Aug. 20 2015,10:25
You know what would be awesome? 6-12 more months of Greek bullshit.
Posted by Malcolm on Aug. 20 2015,11:21
(TheCatt @ Aug. 20 2015,12:25)
QUOTE
You know what would be awesome? 6-12 more months of Greek bullshit.
I want to see how many mulligans Germany gives them before they get brutal. The cash you could make off the side bets would go a long way towards paying off Greece's debt.