Topic: Request: Deer hunting tips
started by: thibodeaux
Posted by thibodeaux on Oct. 30 2011,15:51
Decided to try my hand at deer hunting. Anybody got any tips, especially in regards to dressing/butchering the kill?
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 30 2011,16:34
Paging Unk. He's killed herds of deer.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 01 2011,07:19
I'll probably be getting into that next year as well, but that's sort of my girlfriend's job so I'll have a good mentor.I'm sure there are plenty of videos on it out there.
The local hunting & fishing show aired a two-part segment on butchering a deer last week and the week before. Maybe they have a copy of butchering the deer < on their Youtube channel >?
I think most people shoot the deer, tag it, disembowel it, haul it to their truck, then take the carcass to a processor.
The processor cuts it into steaks, grinds it into burgers, and turns the rest into sausage.
I know several people who insist on doing all of this themselves though, because then they know that they get all of their meat back, and that the meat they get back is theirs.
I know female deer have the most meat, so if you want meat find a nice fat doe.
Bucks are pretty much for trophies.
My girlfriend likes fawns because they are the best eating.
She made me deer steaks a couple weeks ago. They were good. Beef is a lot better though.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 12 2011,07:03
My girlfriend, her BFF, and I went deer hunting today.I was just an observer, but the women were armed.
The GF and I went to a tree stand we'd set up yesterday, and the BFF hunted from the ground.
After 30 minutes of waiting, a large doe came down the hill. It saw us, and then moved to another ridge to get another look at us from maybe 75 yards away.
BLAMMO!
The deer took off down an embankment and we lost site of it.
We ran to where it was shot but didn't see blood.
I went back to the stand to make sure we were searching the right location.
Then my GF found a blood trail. It was a a pretty defined blood trail, and I think even my 8 year old daughter could have followed it to the body.
Then she filled out some paperwork on the deer (some sort of log you have to do).
It was a big fat doe.
(My GF & her BFF are biologists for deer in this state, and both amazed at how much far the deer had when they processed it.)
She cut the guts and butt-hole out. This was the bloodiest part. The body cavity was blood & guts soup.
My friend's BFF was about 300 yards away and she said that she saw two bucks shortly after we shot ours, bit it was just a small button-buck and a 4-pointer, and she didn't want to waste her 1-buck limit on small things like that.
I dragged the carcass back, maybe 400 yards, up and down gullies and such. Dragging it down hill was easy. Up hill was a bitch.
I strung it up and they processed it.
It's hung by the back legs, held apart. They cut around the legs and pulled the skin down, harvesting meat from various places (tenderloin, back strap, hams, etc.)
I'd seen the process before on television (Kentucky Afield has a DVD out on how to do it).
It was pretty neat.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 12 2011,07:07
Bitch is hard core.Also keep in mind she could do that to you in a hormone-fueled delirious rage.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 12 2011,08:08
Yeah, but I weigh more than a deer, so she couldn't drag off my body.* * *
I'll add that the dear was shot in the lungs.
The bullet went right through it, busting a big hole in the rib when it exited.
She got in late last night and hadn't sighted the gun, so she was just assuming that it would fairly accurate.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 12 2011,10:52
The two of them are out now, at the brand new < Marion County WMA >, hunting it on foot.The KDFWR give permits to hunt deer there based on a lottery. You put your group information in (hunting license numbers I think) and if your group is drawn they all get to hunt.
They were drawn to hunt it this weekend (along with several other people), which is opening weekend on a site that opened this year.
I didn't put my name in with them, and the site is closed to non-hunters during these two weeks of modern gun season, so I can't tag along as a sherpa.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 12 2011,18:51
My girlfriend and I went out again this evening. We had about an hour before sunset.This time I had the gun. I lack a license, but as a resident landowner I can hunt on my own property without one.
We saw one small 4-point buck. He came up behind us (took his time too), and then went down past us and up a hill, where he turned around.
He turned around because a doe had come down from the other direction.
She brushed him off and came walking up toward us.
I had no intention of shooting the small buck, but I'd have shot the doe if it presented itself.
It stayed behind trees and would stop in the thick stuff, checking us out.
We stayed motionless.
It was starting to get dark and it just kept rooting around behind some trees. I could hear it, and my girlfriend could see it with her binoculars, but I only got occasional glances.
After that it ran up the hill.
It had to go in the open during that run, but I'm not going to shoot at a running animal at 50 yards, in the twilight, so the thing lives to see another day. I'd never even shot that Remington before, so I was only going to shoot it under optimal conditions.
When it got up the hill and out of site it started barking at us. My GF (the cervid specialist) said it was a warning call.
After that it it was too late and too dark to hunt, so we packed up and hiked back to the house.
I'm sort of glad I didn't get one. By the time we got back to the house it was dark, and I'd hate to have to gut & process it in the dark. I mean, I guess I could have pulled out a floodlight and there are no bugs this time of year, but still, it would be difficult considering I don't know what I'm doing.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 20 2011,18:51
Last Wednesday my daughter and I dressed in hunter orange, grabbed out binoculars, and went to the tree stand in my back woods.It took about fifteen minutes for two small deer to show up. They got about 30' away from out stand. It was pretty cool. It was a nice bonding moment with my daughter.
* * *
Friday evening my girlfriend and her best friend went out hunting on one of their friend's chunk of farmland. I accompanied them.
The land has a small field, but is mostly a big hill. The top of the hill has a long clearing for the high tension power lines.
My GF and I had set up a tree stand on the back side of the hill a few weeks ago. My GF's BFF walked to that stand while my GF and I stayed on the closer side and hunkered mid-way up a fairly steep hill, near a crumbling rock wall.
There were plenty of deer signs, like rubbings, hoof prints, and droppings.
I do not have a hunting license, so I can't hunt off my own property. I can accompany hunters though.
I was armed with only binoculars:
It was cold and got colder. It was also fairly windy.
I only had a hoodie and t-shirt on under my coveralls, so I was getting really cold.
We saw three donkeys walk by, a few goats, and one cat.
Zero deer.
We heard other hunters shoot stuff.
When it got dark we called it quits and went back to the car.
My GF's BFF had seen one nice buck, but it was on the opposite hill which is the neighbor's property. It never came onto the property we were hunting.
She said it went over the hill and 5 minutes later she heard a shot come from that direction, so she thinks it may have met its end at the hands of someone else.
So basically I just sat on the ground in the cold for 1:45 or so just to watch farm animals.
Oh... I did play Words With Friends on my phone, and check email.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 20 2011,20:23
(thibodeaux @ Oct. 30 2011,18:51)
QUOTE
Decided to try my hand at deer hunting. Anybody got any tips, especially in regards to dressing/butchering the kill?
It's important to have a good knife.
I look before I leap, and researched knives. The best all around knife is a skinning knife, as you can disembowel the deer and process it.
Some knives come with a gut hook, which is a hook on the back side that's used to pull up the deer's belly (like a zipper) to access the body cavity without a sharp blade touching the guts.
If a blade accidentally cuts the guts it can squirt out. It stinks, and the juices ruin any meat they touch.
Gut hooks are difficult to sharpen and make the knife bulkier.
I opted not to get a gut hook because I wanted a knife with a bit more finesse, which makes butchering it easier. I should point out though that my girlfriend says that her next knife will have a gut hook, because she wants to try one.
People on the various hunting forums seem to love < Cold Steel > brand knives. (They like others based on nostalgia and looks, but as far as performance goes Cold Steel has had nothing but raving reviews). I bought the < Cold Steel Pendleton Hunter > on Amazon. This is a better version of the knife that won < Field & Stream's 2010 Best of the Best > in knives.
* * *
After we found the deer my GF shot we put it on its back and I held the rear legs apart.
She cut a hole in the belly, then expanded it laterally and then horizontally up the belly to the rib cage.
There was no blood, just a lot of connective tissue and a big blob of guts. It reminded me of the pod things in Aliens. Lots of slime and stuff.
She took care not to nick the guts.
After that she had to disembowel the thing. I pulled the body open while she stuck her arms in and separated the gut sack from the chest walls.
There was quite a bit of cutting to sever the trachea up under the neck. There was plenty of blood for that. The body cavity held all the blood in like some sort of cauldron.
The knife cuts around the anus from the outside, and when the gut sack is dumped out of the body cavity the anus is pulled through and comes out with that.
Back at the house I cut a hole between the tendon and the femur of each leg. I ran a rope through one hole, ran it through a 2' piece of PVC pipe, then ran the rope out through the other hole.
I used the rope to pull up the deer so that it's head wasn't touching the ground. Really, the important part is that it;s high enough to work with.
First you peel down the skin. You peel it from just below the ropes down to the neck. You basically cut circles around the legs and then slits down, then pull. As you pull with one hand, you use the knife to slice away all the stuff that's holding the skin to the body.
It's not rocket science, but I guess there's technique to it.
They cut out the back straps and tenderloins and put those into Ziplok bags. These are the best parts.
They cut the shoulders off (still on the bone). I used tree clippers to hack through the bone.
I did the same with the back legs to get the ham, which of course dropped the carcass to the ground.
By then the meat was gone, so I dragged what amounted to the head, neck, ribs, and spine into the woods.
The shoulders and hams went into trash bags and into coolers full of ice. They were taken back to my girlfriend's house and stuck in the refrigerator.
* * *
This weekend I removed meat from the femur.
Basically you're just separating the muscles and cutting them out. You push your fingers around to feel what goes where.
You want to cut out every bit of fat and all the white stuff that coats the muscles. Each muscle has this stuff on all sides, and so you need to carve it off of all sides of the muscle.
I wasted a lot of meat doing this, but I was told it's best to error on the side of caution, as the white/shiney stuff is really chewy.
We saved the largest muscle for a roast, leaving the silvery white stuff on it to hold it together.
The rest of the meat was cut into chunks and ground into burger. I should mention that when I saw them do this on TV they saved some of the larger muscles and made steaks out of them.
Earlier this week she did something similar to both shoulders.
When she ground up that meat she did it in a separate batch though, because it has more connective stuff riddled through it.
That is, the ham stuff we cut up today was the good stuff, so it was ground in it's own batch, and the less desirable shoulder stuff was ground into a batch that was marked "shoulder" so she's know what it was.
Posted by unkbill on Nov. 24 2011,20:24
Leave Sunday for hunting. Will be my 25 year on the same farm. I started hunting 2 years before that. Will read the whole post maybe tomorrow. One thing I noticed. Bucks are edible. Unless they are 8 or 9 years old. Then they get a little tough and best to have ground up. Deer are hung from the rear legs but if you plan to have a buck mounted you hang it from the antlers so the blood drains down and out.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 25 2011,06:49
I did not know that about hanging a buck from the antlers.I just asked my girlfriend (the deer & elk biologist) about that and she said that if you're going to cape it (caping it is peeling the skin over the head and cutting off the neck to give to the taxidermist) right away then hanging it by the rear legs is fine.
If you're going to take awhile then yeah, hang it head-up so that the blood doesn't coagulate in the head and face.
I learned something new.
Posted by unkbill on Nov. 25 2011,09:23
As far as puncturing the guts, don't do it. That is when gagging may occur as it smells really bad. It won't hurt the meat. We take our deer and flush them out with a garden hose to remove excess blood and you normally may have a few turds hanging around.The throat tube is the hardest part. It should be pulled so the neck scrunches up and then cut. It is the first part of the deer that will go bad and spoil meat. When dealing with the back legs you should find the scent glands and avoid at all cost. That stuff will ruin meat. Some people cut them off. I have always left them intact and had no problems. All of us hang our deers at least overnight before skinning. It is easier when they are a bit stiff and pelt is cold. Our deer sometimes hang in the barn all week if we get them on Monday. It is cool in the barn and we keep bags of ice in the body cavity.
When you peel the skin down from the back leg you can use a knife to start but I have seen people use vice grips and just pull it all down. As long as the meat dosesn't start coming off with the hide.
I have seen people be that fussy with cleaning the meat. All of our is ground up so we cut the fat and larger white sinu off. When grinding for burger or sausage I have never had any bad parts. A lot of times the meat is bad around the gunshot hole. Dark red clotted meat is disgarded.
When gutting the first part we do is remove the male organs. Generally I hang them in a tree branch and let out a primal scream. People and other deer know when we kill a buck.
I just dig the deer head up from the garden. I planted it up to the antlers. Place a bucket over the antlers so no mice or squirrel would eat at them. After a year it was preatty clean. Just hosed the dirt off of it. Am mounting it to a board now. I think it will look good when it bleaches out and is a different kind of mount.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 25 2011,09:33
(unkbill @ Nov. 25 2011,12:23)
QUOTE
Am mounting it to a board now. I think it will look good when it bleaches out and is a different kind of mount.
I am voting for the hood of your jeep.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 25 2011,13:43
The skull an antlers is called a < European mount >.A lot of people stick the head in a big bucket and boil it all day to get a nice clean skull. Then they pick off any lingering flesh, and soak it in hydrogen peroxide to bleach the skull.
I know they sell < special electric kettles > to do that, so you don't need to worry about running our of propane.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 25 2011,13:43
Big box full'a maggots.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 25 2011,13:54
A maggot box would be awesome.I think flesh eating beetles would be cooler. I've seen The Mummy.
Posted by unkbill on Nov. 26 2011,14:34
Friends of mine have tried boiling. Have been told it stinks, literally. Never thought of peroxide. My sister does her sheep heads. She says one part bleach one part water. But only for a few minutes. The bleach eats the stuff that hold the skulls together.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 26 2011,17:02
QUOTE
Product Description:
The Buck Boiler is a clean and efficient way to create a European Mount. The unit houses a patent pending heating element which utilizes household electricity instead of the conventional way of using expensive propane. A heavy duty powercord with a safety breaker built into the lug is attached and operates on standard household current of 110 volt. Easy to use the unit manipulates tap water and dish detergent for an approximately 8 hour process, at the end of which, your trophy is ready to be rinsed off and mounted. Temperature is held more constant with the Buck Boiler than when using propane to make damaging the bone structure of the trophy less likely.
The Buck Boiler is a clean and efficient way to create a European Mount. The unit houses a patent pending heating element which utilizes household electricity instead of the conventional way of using expensive propane. A heavy duty powercord with a safety breaker built into the lug is attached and operates on standard household current of 110 volt. Easy to use the unit manipulates tap water and dish detergent for an approximately 8 hour process, at the end of which, your trophy is ready to be rinsed off and mounted. Temperature is held more constant with the Buck Boiler than when using propane to make damaging the bone structure of the trophy less likely.
It doesn't talk about the smell. I imagine that if you boiled a head in the kitchen it would stink up the house, but something like this could be done in the back yard.
I think you're going to have a cleaner, better-condition skull if you boil it rather than let it rot in the ground.
Of course, letting it rot off would probably be cheaper.
I remember watching a Dirty Jobs where they prepared animal bones. If I recall, they boiled it, then stuck the bones in a tank full of flesh eating bugs, who cleaned it off.
Posted by unkbill on Dec. 06 2011,20:14
A freind of boiled his in the house, Said smell was not a problem.As for me I'm not going to have that problem. The doe I shot Friday is to small to worry about. And the 10 point buck I shot on Saturday is going on the on the living room wall.
The weather for the first part of the week made it the worst start ever. By Friday morning we only had 2 deer. By Saturday night we had racked and stacked 20. As far as beer. I think a few people were slacking. We only managed to go throu 40 30 packes.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 06 2011,21:58
Any photos of the 10 point buck?
Posted by unkbill on Dec. 07 2011,19:03
Will see if Gordo can help me out with that. Out of freezer space. Made it up to 40 pounds of hamburg, still around 15 to go.
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 07 2011,19:27
Yeah I have it on my phone. I'll put it online later when I am not surfing porn.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 09 2011,14:40
You chafing yet, Gordo?
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 09 2011,15:27
So much porn. There must be over a hundred websites on the internet.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 09 2011,17:58
There's even more sites than that if you search for hetero porn.
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 09 2011,22:43
This is the picture Unk texted me:
Posted by Paul on Dec. 10 2011,05:59
That is one horny deer.
Posted by unkbill on Dec. 11 2011,13:32
Never had him weighed but some of the older deer hunters said around 200 pounds. Which the meat pretty much verified. I end up with a full cooler with 70 pounds of meat. You lose about 2/3rds in bone, fat, hide.When I hung him in the garage his nose was and inch off the floor and his hooves were a foot from the ceiling. I have 9 foot walls.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 11 2011,21:33
I heard the same thing about the meat.Specifically I was told that they were about 1/3 guts, 1/3 skin & bone, and 1/3 meat.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 17 2011,18:43
Went out early this morning. Saw no deer.Went out this evening, and saw one, but it wasn't in range.
Going out tomorrow morning. Wish me luck. It's the final day of deer season.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 18 2011,18:06
Didn't see any deer in the morning.I went out for a couple hours after lunch while my girlfriend napped. Nada.
We went back out in the evening, and didn't see any deer either.
Deer are ninjas IMO.
And squirrels like to mock you.
Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 20 2011,16:28
Killed a button buck this PM. My friend's wife helped me dress it. Fun!
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 20 2011,16:40
(thibodeaux @ Dec. 20 2011,19:28)
QUOTE
Killed a button buck this PM. My friend's wife helped me dress it. Fun!
Man, you fucked that deer!
Best photoshop evar
Posted by TheCatt on Dec. 20 2011,16:42
lol
Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 20 2011,16:48
Doesn't matter, had sex.
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 20 2011,17:18
Still counts.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 21 2011,06:11
(thibodeaux @ Oct. 30 2011,18:51)
QUOTE
Decided to try my hand at deer hunting. Anybody got any tips, especially in regards to dressing/butchering the kill?
You should ask your wife's friend.
You know, the one who'll she'll be porking when you're out of the picture.
Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 21 2011,06:40
If you're referring to my post, I actually said "friend's wife." Otherwise, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 21 2011,19:34
Dagnabbit I can't tease you about a woman showing you how to clean an animal.Nothing wrong with that.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 23 2011,19:33
I may go squirrel hunting tomorrow, so I've been researching it online.While I was browsing I found a guide to field dressing a deer:
< http://www.mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/deer/field-dressing >
Posted by Paul on Dec. 24 2011,09:02
Shot one in one shoulder.I thought it was doing a death crawl so I figured I'd let it bleed out as it crawled down a ravine.
Then it went into the base of a small tree.
What I didn't know what that the tree was hollow.
I hiked home, but my old chainsaw wouldn't start and my good one is at my in-law's place, so I grabbed a hand saw and went to work cutting about 18" up (I figured it was only hollow for about 3').
Boy was I wrong.
Once I cut it and pushed the tree over, I rammed a 5' branch up the hole, and hit nothing. Ugh.
I sawed through it again, and snapped it over the stump, which peeled a lot of it.
That bit in the foreground is the middle chunk I cut out.
The squirrel stayed in the top part of the tree (there's a hole there).
I couldn't push him out with a stick. He just squealed in protest and dug in with his claws.
I was able to get a view of his head so I pointed the gun at point blank range and fired to brain the little bastard, but he moved so I only took a chunk out above his left eye.
I was sweating from all the sawing so I finally just jammed the gun up and pointed at his vitals... blammo!
That did it.
3 shots to kill that mofo.
Then I followed some Internet directions to skin and disembowel it because I planned on making a squirrel stew.
Unfortunately I totally butchered the job. The thing was a mess. I cut too deep, tore too much, and got fur everywhere.
I felt guilty about wasting the meat, but I ended up just chucking it in the woods.
Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 24 2011,09:14
I'm literally LOL. That was a lot of work for a squirrel.Every deer hunter hates squirrels, I imagine, since they sit in the tree and laugh at you freezing your butt off waiting for a deer. But there's just not enough meat on a squirrel to eat. They really are tree-rats.
Posted by thibodeaux on Dec. 24 2011,09:15
(Paul @ Dec. 24 2011,12:02)
QUOTE
I rammed a 5' branch up the hole, and hit nothing. Ugh.
That's what SHE said.
Posted by unkbill on Dec. 30 2011,18:41
Hoping to go muzzle loading weekend after this one.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 13 2012,13:47
For fun I bought < a trail cam > and set it up in the woods. (And a cable lock to keep trespassers from stealing it)I scattered a bunch of corn in front of it to attract wildlife (which my dog ate a bunch of).
I'll check it on Monday and see what happens.
If there's anything cool I'll post pics.
I haven't seen any deer sign lately, and I don't think the squirrels are big enough to set it off so I might not get anything.
It's be cool to get some pictures of deer and turkey and Sasquatch stuff. Worst case scenario is < THIS > and I never ever go in the woods unarmed again.
Posted by unkbill on Jan. 14 2012,19:13
My buddys all have trail cams. They can be very useful. He gave up his one area to us. All his pics of bucks were after midnight and knew opening day someone would have to push one to you to get it.We scored 2 more muzzle loading season. Brings our yearly total to 25. I shot but misfired. Maybe I will clean my gun now.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 16 2012,06:54
I need to move the camera lower.But in my defense, I hoped the deer would be taller.
I have several pictures from this time and one of doe ears the following night at 9:15.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 16 2012,11:42
I returned the SD card and decided to lower the camera, but I lacked the key to the cable lock.I went back to the house, got the key and took down the camera.
The tree I was on was too thick at the bottom, so I moved to another tree that is facing the opposite direction, and locked the camera into place (I use a cable lock).
Unfortunately after locking it I realized the key was no longer in my hand, so I searched my pockets and the forest floor, but found nothing.
I drove to my in-laws' place and borrowed their metal detector. Then I went back into the woods and searched around. On the trail I found an old rusty nail with the metal detector.
I combed all around the tree where I must have dropped it, but found nothing so I went home.
That's where I found the key in a pocket in my jacket. I checked all of the pockets multiple times, but I guess the key is magic.
Posted by unkbill on Jan. 17 2012,16:24
Oh the small ones are the tastiest. When muzzle loading the bucks were rubbing there horns on trees again. They must be starting to hurt them and it is about time to drop them.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 17 2012,16:43
Last night a solo doe showed up.
Then some banditos show up.
At a quarter after eight this morning there were two does.
At 9:00 my dog investigated the area.
At 13:60 four does showed up in the rain (blurry pics) and stayed for about 30 minutes.
I'm having a blast with this camera.
There was still corn out there so I didn't add any more today, but I did ad a salt block and I put some sort of block topper on it (a powder and a molasses-like topping) to see if I can get the critters to dig into that.
I still haven't seen a buck on the camera yet.
I'd really like to see some turkey though. The reason I picked this spot for the camera was because we heard a turkey in that area, and saw where turkey had turned over a bunch of leaves.
Posted by GORDON on Jan. 17 2012,16:51
Mount a weapon on that camera platform.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 17 2012,17:49
(GORDON @ Jan. 17 2012,19:51)
QUOTE
Mount a weapon on that camera platform.
(Paul @ Jan. 17 2012,19:43)
QUOTE
At 9:00 my dog investigated the area.
I also make appearances on the camera.
Posted by unkbill on Jan. 17 2012,18:06
Here at the start of bow season up til Thanksgiving they sell 25 pound bags of carrots, apples, sugar beets and corn.
Posted by TheCatt on Jan. 18 2012,14:18
(Paul @ Jan. 17 2012,20:49)
QUOTE
I also make appearances on the camera.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 18 2012,18:39
The squirrels keep trying to get my nuts.
Posted by Paul on Jan. 18 2012,18:48
Since last time my cam has captured:A group of four raccoons
Several squirrels
My dog
A bird
A mouse (I think)
No deer though. I put out a salt block for them (with some molasses-like coating that is deer are supposed to like) but I guess they thought it was a trap.
Posted by Paul on Mar. 10 2012,17:36
Lots of deer, lots of raccoons, lots of squirrel, some birds, the occasional possum.... then this:
Sweet!
My daughter and I found a dead raccoon in a creek, so I used sticks as tongs to carry it up to the trail cam.
Deer sniffed it, raccoons sniffed it, a possum dug into it multiple times, and I guess this bobcat came by to see what the possum had left.
Posted by Paul on Apr. 22 2012,16:39
I went turkey hunting out back, in the woods. I've only seen turkey there a few times so I knew it was a long shot. (I usually have the dogs with me though, so they'd chase them off way before I could ever see them)Sure enough, no sign of any turkey.
When I finally got up both legs were asleep.
Last Sunday I went to my friend's farm so I could scout out a location to hunt turkey.
We went to a field that I thought looked great, then a turkey popped up and flew away. Cool!
My GF and I went back there yesterday but it was cold and drizlly. We saw very few song birds and didn't even hear a turkey.
We gave up after freezing out there for a few hours.
This morning I went back to the same site, set up the turkey decoy, and waited.
Without the rain there were a lot more song birds.
The sun peaked through the clouds for a bit, which was nice, but the wind was really biting so when it blew I got a lot colder than yesterday.
After a couple hours I moved back into the trees so they'd protect me from the wind.
I'm sure I suck at calling, but I'd try the slate turkey call about every 30 minutes. I got no replies. So yet another day with no sign of turkey.
My GF and I will go back out in two weeks, during the last weekend of turkey season, weather permitting.
I might go back some weekday morning before then if the weather is nice and I have no morning appointments.
Posted by unkbill on Apr. 23 2012,19:25
I have seen the best turkey hunting done in deer season. I come to the garage to a pile of feathers. I know only need to ask "**** got board again? Turkey wouldn't leave him alone? We need to eat the evidence soon?"Then I am on heating the oil. Really surprised deer slugs don't tear them up to much.
Posted by Paul on Apr. 27 2012,16:38
I took my daughter hunting.She was less conspicuous than I thought she'd be:
< http://i558.photobucket.com/albums....mo1.jpg >
< http://i558.photobucket.com/albums....mo2.jpg >
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Posted by Paul on Apr. 27 2012,16:43
I had no delusions of shooting a bird.The early spring made the birds nest early, so it's a bad year for turkey hunting in these parts.
Also, last year's flooding was bad for birds.
Also, I rarely see turkey in my back yard.
Also, it was the wrong time of day.
Also, we were out for less than an hour.
We did set up a decoy and have a gun, but this was more of just a practice run.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 02 2012,16:35
As for the last post, by "rarely see turkey" I mean that I have seen them twice in the past 12 years, have heard them once, and have caught them on my trail camera once (in the 10 months it's been up).-----------------------------------------------------------------
I got into hunting about a year ago. While I live in Kentucky now, I grew up in Los Angeles and I used to think that shooting animals was sort of barbaric. Of course I've always eaten meat, and chickens and cows have pretty lousy cramped/dirty lives. It occurred to me that I was being pretty self righteous. I was still an essential part of the slaughter of the animals I ate, I was just paying other people to do the dirty work and package it in a way that I wouldn't associate it with an animal. That's not very respectful to the animal.
I went on a few hunting trips last year. I had no luck with turkey but my girlfriend bagged a deer and showed me how to field dress it. Field dressing is basically removing the guts so they doesn't spoil the meat. It's a pretty interesting process, but bloody.
To prepare for deer season this fall I moved my trail camera around my back yard (I own 45 acres) until I found a place with sufficient deer activity.
I used the date/time stamped photos to make a spreadsheet of all the times when deer showed up. For the past month they were most active from between 7:00am & 11:00am. After 11:00 they were inactive, but would reappear from 5:00pm-8:00pm. Basically, they were active at sunrise and sunset.
I set up my tree stand three weeks before muzzleloader season started to combat neophobia. For the first two weeks the deer would stare at it, but eventually they ignored it.
Early muzzleloader season was two days in September while late muzzleloader season takes place over 9 days in December. Muzzleloaders are guns loaded the old fashioned way. I put propellant down the barrel, then I use a ramrod to cram the projectile (the bullet) down the barrel.
In the old days they used a piece of flint on the hammer to ignite the black powder and expel a round lead ball. Modern muzzleloaders have the hammer hit a percussion cap which ignites compressed pellets that explode and expel a conical copper bullet/sabot. (A sabot is a bulled with some plastic at the bottom to get a better seal)
My friend (my ex-girlfriend) stayed over Friday night and we went hunting early Saturday morning. I had a lousy sleep. Whenever I have to get up early I keep waking up to check the time.
Here's the view from my tree stand:
The trail cam is... oh.... see that thicker tree just left of middle and about 2/3 of the way up the photo? The small tree a little left of that and maybe 12' behind it has the trail cam.
Here's a trail cam pic of the tree stand:
She and I spent 4 hours in the tree stand and only saw one deer. It came over the ridge. We didn't notice it until it saw us and bolted back over the ridge. Those deer are quiet.
She had to attend an out-of-state seminar so she left before lunch, and I ate and then went out to swap SD cards in the trail cam and on a whim I set it to record video.
Since I was out there anyway I went ahead and sat in the tree stand for an hour but I didn't see anything.
That afternoon I spent four hours in the tree stand with no luck either. I quit with a half hour of legal hunting light remaining (you can hunt until 30 minutes after sunset) because even if I shot one I didn't want my first gutting-a-deer experience to be alone in woods in the dark.
I went to bed early and was woke up wide awake... at 12:30am. Ugh. I woke up every 45 minutes or so until I finally got up at 6:40.
I left the house at 7:00 and hit the tree stand.
At around 8:00 some deer magically appeared to my right. They had to have come over a ridge so they should have been visible for 50', but I never noticed them.
They were I the thick brush so I didn't have a clean shot at either. I'm not going to take an unethical shot.
Fifteen minutes later another appeared in front of me, and she turned and went back to the same trail the other two deer were on. She was a bit nervous and moved briskly (I think she saw me, or smelled me) so while I aimed at her the entire time I wasn't confident with my shot so I did not pull the trigger.
That had all happened to the right of the photo I took form the deer stand.
Next, two deer came over the ridge (from the far right of the photo) and I thought they'd head towards me but then ended up cutting back down the ledge.
I had an okay shot at the first one but I thought it would get closer so I didn't take it. Then it went down the embankment and while I had a nice shot at the second one it was substantially smaller.
I'm hunting for meat, so I didn't want a small deer.
I went for quite awhile without seeing a deer and I decided that I'd call it quits at 10:00.
At 9:55 I thought, "Close enough!" and took off my gloves. I had my gun cracked open and I was removing the firing cap (so I couldn't shoot myself while climbing down the tree) when three deer came down the hill from the left.
I made sure the cap was in place, closed the gun, and hunkered down.
The first deer was a fawn (but old enough to be self-sufficent). Some people shoot them because of their tender meat. The second deer was the largest so I set my sights on her (literally).
I shot it in the spine and the doe dropped instantly. The other two deer scattered. My friend left her muzzleloader with me so I took that down the tree with me (easier than reloading). The deer was still alive so I texted my friend (who is a deer biologist) and asked her what the best shot to dispatch it.
She told me just below the base of the ear. Blammo! Lights out.
I took this last one after disemboweling it. Blood soaked through my coveralls, through my jeans, and coated my knees.
After field dressing the deer I tied it to the tether for my harness and dragged it back to my place. It was heavy.
The carcass slid down hill but dragging it up hill was exhausting.
While I helped process my ex-girlfriend's deer last November I didn't want to screw anything up with unsupervised butchery, so I drove it to the butcher. He said it's been a slow season for him. My ex-GF said that the strong mast crop this year (mast = acorns and other food) means that the deer don't have to roam as much, so fewer will get shot.
I can use a firearm to take one more deer in my area. I can get two additional deer if I buy an additional pair of tags ($30 total) and use archery equipment.
Since I have no archery equipment, and assuming I get another deer this November during modern gun season, if I wanted to shoot more deer I'd have to go to a Zone-1 county.
I was extremely lucky to catch the shot on my trail camera.
It's sort graphic/violent so you've been warned: < http://youtu.be/X9GVLUMA8GA >
Posted by TheCatt on Nov. 02 2012,16:37
Poor deer.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 02 2012,17:03
(TheCatt @ Nov. 02 2012,18:37)
QUOTE
Poor deer.
If they didn't want to get shot, they should've invented kevlar. Interspecies deathfights are serious shit.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 02 2012,17:44
I got 55+ lbs of venison out of her. 20 lbs of burger, 20 lbs of summer sausage, and the rest in prime cuts.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 02 2012,17:45
How much did it cost, license to ammo to dressing?
Posted by Paul on Nov. 02 2012,19:02
I bought a $90 "Sportsmans License" which includes a hunting license, two deer tags, to spring turkey tags, two fall turkey tags, a fishing license, and a trout tag. It saves me $60 or something like that.I got my first KY trout this year, and at it for breakfast that same day.
For KY residents a standard hunting license is $20 and a deer permit (tags for two deer) is $30. You can keep buying tags at $30 a pair if you want to harvest more deer. So the minimum price is $50 for two deer, and $80 for four deer, and $110 for 6 deer.
Last November my lady-friend used a .270 which is about $25 per box of 20. When she got her deer last year we processed it all ourselves (steaks, roasts, backstrap, tenderloins, and ground the rest).
She took one practice shot the day before to make sure the scope was accurate and downed the deer in one shot, so $3 in ammo +$50 in license. $53 total, plus a lot of labor to process it. Processing it is easier than I thought. Muscles and stuff come in easily dividable sections.
She probably got about 50lbs of meat off it.
I used a muzzleloader. I bought a 20-pack of Hornady sabots (bullets with plastic) for $14.99 and I got a 24-pack of Hodgdon Triple Se7ev propellant on sale at Walmart post-season last year for about $10 (two pellets per shot so it's 12 shots worth of propellant). The caps to ignite the propellant was $5 for a 100-pack.
Funny thing about the caps. I looked at buying a 500 pack online for cheap, but they are considered a hazardous item so if you order them online there is a $30 hazardous shipping fee. It's waaaaaay cheaper just to buy them from a brick and mortar.
So... $.75 per sabot, $.85 for propellant, $.05 per cap = $1.65 per shot. More with tax and stuff (like cleaning the gun often, and using breach plug grease) so let's say $2 per shot.
In two weeks we'll go deer hunting with modern guns and I'll probably use my Henry .44 Magnum using Hornady Leverevolution ammo ($17 for 20 rounds). I made half a dozen hollow points when a friend showed me how to reload ammo, so I'm tempted to try those, but with only 6 shots I won't have many left if I can't sight them in quickly.
Processing the deer was the expensive part.
They charge $100 processing fee for a whole deer, and for special items there is an additional fee.
My 20 lbs of summer sausage cost $2.55 per pound so that added $51 to the price.
No tax, so the total was $151.
If I only wanted ground meat and the prime cuts (steaks, roasts, tenderloin, backstrap) it would have just been the $100.
The summer sausage is freaking delicious though and totally worth the money. I'll bring the summer sausage to parties with cheese and crackers and get all sorts of compliments. I've been eyeballing one in the fridge for awhile and will probably open it up this weekend.
So I spent:
$151 Processing
$50 license & tags
$4 ammo
$3.75 per pound of venison.
I plan on taking one more deer this year and I'll process it myself, so the next 55 lbs of venison will cost whatever the ammo costs.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 04 2012,13:34
I made a slow cooker full of venison chili which has been simmering for about seven hours now.I can't wait for dinner time!
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 04 2012,14:04
What we kill and eat today, walks and talks tomorrow...
Posted by Paul on Nov. 07 2012,16:52
My chili has beans (STFU Chili Nazis) so what I eat talks even sooner.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 07 2012,18:01
I went bow hunting this morning but didn't see any deer.I went out early, so the infrared lights of the trail cam kicked on, making me look evil:
(That's me in both pics.)
I spent awhile hunkered against a tree and was visited several times by a chipmunk on a log. Before I left I put my camera on that log to take a pic of myself.
I ended up moving to another location at one point and the trail cam caught me again. I look less evil in this photo:
I plan on going back out tomorrow after I drop my daughter at school.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,18:05
I thought deer were color blind and wearing a camo gili suit like that was just begging to be blown away by another hunter.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 07 2012,19:39
Deer can see very limited colors. They can see blue, but don't differentiate between other colors.An orange vest just looks like a grey vest, but it's still a big, blank, light colored surface in a forest of mottled hues and shapes. So yes, a safety vest can catch their eyes.
During gun season the safety issues outweigh being seen by deer so state law requires that you wear a hunter orange hat and have solid hunter orange on your chest & back.
This is so that a hunter 200 yards away doesn't mistake you for a deer and shoot you. Or a hunter can at least see you across a field so he knows to not shoot in that direction.
For archery you are shooting a weapon that's good at under 50 yards and most people shoot at around half of that.
Because your weapon has a limited range there is less danger of accidentally/mistakenly hitting someone else.
Also, because you have to be close to the deer and it takes a lot more movement to draw the bow you need every advantage you can get on the deer, so as not to spook it.
It is only bow hunting season now. Modern gun season starts Saturday. I'll have my daughter and she doesn't hunt, so I won't go out until at least Monday.
My lady friend is coming down the following weekend though.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 07 2012,19:55
That will be very comforting knowledge when the poacher kills you. :-)
Posted by TPRJones on Nov. 07 2012,20:18
Do they make an orange gili suit? That would make sense.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 07 2012,20:49
I have a ghillie poncho, not an entire suit. I got it for turkey hunting.An orange ghillie suit would be psychedelic! It wouldn't be legal here though as it needs to be a "solid, unbroken orange." I think they do that to keep color blind people from shooting the bush monsters.
During turkey season you can hunt with a shotgun and not wear orange because turkey have great eyesight (so you need it) and because and shotguns aren't as dangerous at a distance.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 10 2012,11:42
While bow hunting yesterday I could have bagged a doe. Three presented excellent shots, but I wanted the buck I'd seen the morning before to show up. He didn't.This morning my daughter and I got up just before sunrise and hit the tree stand.
She got bored and went home after an hour. I stayed out a couple hours longer but didn't see anything.
I still want that buck. Even if the does came back I'd have left them alone.
I'm aiming toward the trail cam:
The cam through the scope:
Posted by Paul on Nov. 11 2012,16:23
Saw nothing yesterday.Saw one deer ass today.
I think the other hunters on other people's properties are scaring them away.
I'll take tomorrow off but I hope to go back out on either Tuesday or Wednesday morning.
Posted by Malcolm on Nov. 11 2012,17:09
(Paul @ Nov. 11 2012,18:23)
QUOTE
I think the other hunters on other people's properties are scaring them away.
Have you tried scaring those other hunters away?
Posted by Paul on Nov. 12 2012,19:12
No. I haven't heard anybody else in the woods.I'm going out again tomorrow morning.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 17 2012,18:58
Today was my last day to hunt before going on vacation.My lady friend shot one at her friend's farm last night so she didn't hunt with me this morning.
At around 8:30 I got a call from a local business who's server was down so I had to quit hunting and went back to town.
When I got back home I went out hunting again. I positioned myself up a hill where I had seen deer activity before.
I saw one from maybe 45 yards away. I noticed that one side of antlers was a little odd but took a shot when it was between a couple trees.
As soon as it ran I saw that one side of antler was completely missing.
I waited a few minutes then followed the blood trail.
I found it and stood 30' away from it as it looked at me. Then it sprinted off. Doh!
It probably went 200' before I couldn't hear it so I went back to the house to wait for it to die.
I went back out an hour later and followed the blood trail again. This time when I got 50' away from it (it was in a creek bed) it got up and ran into some thick brush. I stayed still and it stopped about 200' away from me. It stood there and stared at me so I left and went back home.
It was on my neighbor's land and I've never met the new guy so I went to his place to ask for permission to get the animal.
When I knocked on his door I heard some panicked mumblings and things being hastily put away.
When he opened the door the house smelled of marijuana.
He gave me permission to get the animal so I went back home and waited for my lady friend (she's my hunting mentor) to help me bet the buck.
We approached it from the other side, because if it ran away I wanted it to run towards my house.
I couldn't find it in the thick growth so we went way back up the hill do where I'd last seen blood, then we followed the blood trail.
Eventually we found the buck. It was dead. Whew!
I field dressed him (which is cutting out everything internal from the throat to the butt-hole then started the arduous process of dragging him back to the house.
He probably weighed 150 or 160 pounds sans guts. It was a lot of work and I took a lot of breaks on the way.
My fried is a biologist and staid that one of the antlers broke off after it had fully formed, but awhile ago.
It was a 4.5 year old male (judging by his teeth).
I have the head in the back of her truck but the rest of the deer is at the processors. She's going run some tests on the deer (CWD & TB) then get the skull back to me so I can to a European mount.
It's an ugly rack, otherwise I'd have it mounted. I think I'm going to to the Unkbill thing and just bury the head to let the flesh rot off. It's not really a trophy, but it'd be need to have.
Posted by GORDON on Nov. 17 2012,19:08
I want to see pics of the guy pile. With annotations.If you can find a license plate inside it that suggested it swam up from southern waters, you will win the internet for the month.
Posted by Paul on Dec. 17 2012,18:18
(GORDON @ Nov. 17 2012,22:08)
QUOTE
I want to see pics of the guy pile. With annotations.
Freudian slip?
Posted by GORDON on Dec. 17 2012,20:22
Indeed.
Posted by Paul on Sep. 07 2013,11:29
Today was opening day of archery season.I decided that I'd only shoot a buck or a solo doe.
I meant to go to bed early but I ended up being up past midnight.
I kept waking up to check the clock, not wanting to oversleep my 5:45 wakeup time.
I heard some deer behind me but I didn't see them.
At around 9:00 a big doe came by, but she was followed by a couple fawns.
The mother wandered off but the fawns stuck around for about a minute to nibble on some leaves.
The good news is that they were all clueless as to my presence.
I won't go out again this evening because it's hot out and the butcher will be closed, so I don't want to have to make a trip to town to pack the carcass with ice.
When I got back home I took a nap and had a dream that it was 3:45 and I had to wake up at 5:45 again.
When I decided that I'd just stay up the two hours I woke up on my sofa, confused.
Posted by Paul on Oct. 03 2013,07:31
I've had plenty of opportunities to bag deer with a bow this season, but I keep waiting for something special.If I harvest one now I have no reason to hunt until gun season in November, and I like my in-the-woods time.
I hunted the blind yesterday morning and saw three. I could have shot any of them, but hoped that they'd be followed by a buck, which they were not.
The third was a fawn, that was left of frame.
Posted by Paul on Oct. 03 2013,08:03
I saw this one earlier this week, but he's small:
I want one of these guys:
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 03 2013,11:50
Isn't it illegal to hunt with a salt lick?
Posted by Paul on Oct. 20 2013,18:44
No.It's not even illegal to dump piles of corn and hunt that, unless you are on public land.
This was muzzleloader weekend, but I went bowhunting anyway. I had to wear hunter orange though, so I sat in the blind.
I saw a ton of deer in September but during the last couple weeks there haven't been many deer.
I've been told it's called the October lull.
I didn't see any during my previous four hunting trips so I vowed to take the next deer to present itself.
Today I seized my opportunity.
She was small, but I had a good shot.
My arrow pierced both lungs and I found it about 15' behind the deer.
Can you guess which one went though the deer?
I waited two hours before searching for the deer.
There was plenty of blood at the site, but I had trouble finding any blood in the direction it ran.
Can you find the blood in this picture?
You can't, because there is no blood in that picture. That is autumn screwing with me.
It took me three hours to find the deer.
She'd run a bit under 200 yards.
The first drop of blood I found was 100' away from where I shot it.
I was crawling a lot of the time, trying to find blood.
Eventually I found a section where it ran straight up a hill. There was blood about every 15 feet, but when it hit a clearing (and the deer could go in any direction) the blood disappeared.
I probably spent an hour in that clearing but couldn't find any more blood.
The last blood splatter was when it had just entered the clearing, and I noticed that one drop looked like the deer was heading right, so I went right.
That eventually went into some really thick, really hairy woods, but I was frustrated so I just kept going.
Then bazinga:
(I found it on a log, but hauled it to clearing for this photo, and to field dress it)
< field dressed it > (gore), and then took it home where I < skinned and butchered it >.
I dumped the head, bones, and skin in the woods for the critters to eat.
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 20 2013,19:24
You're a madman.
Posted by Paul on Oct. 20 2013,20:55
I included < the gay pile > pic specifically for you.
Posted by GORDON on Oct. 20 2013,21:09
I saw your gay pile.
Posted by Paul on Oct. 20 2013,21:09
(GORDON @ Oct. 20 2013,22:24)
QUOTE
You're a madman.
Just because I'm carrying a decapitated deer head, with a cape made out if its own skin, doesn't make me a madman.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 10 2013,20:09
Yesterday was the opening day for gun season.It was quiet all morning, then I heard a deer running. I thought, "Oh crap it caught my scent and got spooked!" but then I noticed that it was running towards the tree I was in.
A second deer was behind it, but she took a different path.
Then I heard more running, but it was a big German shepherd, chasing the deer.
If it was a coyote I'd have shot it.
I'd never seen that dog before.
Any pet owner who lets their dog run around in the woods on opening day is someone who doesn't care about their dog.
I didn't see anything else worth mentioning the rest of the day.
My ex-girlfriend however, texted me that she shot two, and her friend shot a monster doe.
They are both deer biologists, and they both said that the latter doe was the biggest they'd seen.
As far as my ex-GF getting two, her story was that she shot a doe at 100 yards.
Then the doe's fawn showed up and sniffed around, so she shot him too.
Posted by Paul on Nov. 10 2013,20:21
I set my alarm for 5:25am so I wouldn’t feel bad about laying there before getting out of bed.I dressed, and went to one of my deer stands.
At around 7:45am a deer came up over the ridge directly in front of me.
I didn’t move until he went behind some trees.
Whenever his head as out of sight I’d move, to get my revolver, or pull it up, or get it in position.
I had to wait until he got to a clear place to shoot, so I had a fairly small window of opportunity.
Fortunately he cooperated and stopped right where I wanted him to, about 25-30 yards away.
Having missed good shots before due to hesitation, I seized the opportunity and fired my revolver.
He took off running, bust I couldn't see if he was hit!
He ran far too, which is not a good sign.
He went way down the hill, the across the creek, then I could hear him run up the hill. It sounded like he went 200 yards.
I was afraid that I might have missed him.
I have no magnification on the revolver, and it is shakier than a rifle.
I can shoot a nice grouping on the target range, but real-world situations are different than the target practice.
I checked out the kill zone and found hair and blood:
What I didn’t like is that I saw white hair.
The white parts of a deer are not good to hit (tail, or belly).
I texted my ex-GF a photo and she said that it from the look of the blood (creamy) it was probably a lung shot, so the deer should be dead within a few minutes.
I went home to change and came back out 40 minutes.
Last month the leaves were still colorful and falling. The ground looked like this a month ago:
There is no blood in that picture.
The deer I shot last month with an arrow didn’t bleed much, which made it hard to track in the colorful ground.
Today’s deer was a different story.
The hand-loaded .44 magnum hollow point made the buck bleed like crazy.
I texted a friend that Stevie Wonder couldn’t lose the trail:
Everything read in that picture is boood.
Blood on every plant it touched, blood all over the ground… easy peazy!
I followed the blood down and over a creek, and up a hill. Then I saw it laying on the other side of an old log:
[I field dressed it (I gutted it) then dragged it 150’ or so, to a place I could access with the ATV.
Dragging a deer downhill is easy. They just slide.
Getting him up the bank was a struggle, as was getting his limp/heavy body onto the ATV.
I drove him home and put him in my car.
My daughter and I drove to my ex-GF's house where we processed our kills, oo together we had 4 deer to process.
It’s a 1:15 card ride to Frankfort, and it was a lot of work, so my daughter and I didn’t get back until a little before 9:00.
My venison barely fits in the freezer. I’ll need to move some to my in-laws deep freezer eventually.
Note: I don't know why there was a tuft of white hair at the site where I shot him.
The bullet went in and out, through the ribs/lungs.
There is no white fur in that area.
It must have been loose and fell when he panicked.
Posted by Paul on Sep. 08 2015,18:32
I got a buck last year, dead in the shoulder.This season, on opening day (Saturday) I got a 2.5 year old doe with my compound bow. I hit it too far back, which seems to be a pattern of mine. The arrow still went into the lung though.
I've experimented with canning meat and I kind of like it. I made 5 mason jars of meat and ate one for supper tonight.