Topic: The "Ground Zero" Mosque
started by: GORDON
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 18 2010,10:53
It hasn't been brought up here, and probably rightly so. I needed a little time to crystallize my own thoughts about it.In my opinion, there shouldn't be a law stopping its construction, and government should not try to stop it.
BUT, whoever is responsible for building it MUST know by now how it is being perceived as a "9/11 Victory Mosque," and if they really cared about improving Islam's image in this nation, they would gracefully back away from it. Islam's stock would rise a lot in this country with a simple, "Sorry, we didn't realize the effect this would have on y'all." Hell, support for the mosque would probably rise at that point, for more than one reason.
There shouldn't be a law against it, but the apparent intent of it at that location should not be dismissed.
In my opinion.
Posted by Leisher on Aug. 18 2010,11:02
I'd agree with that opinion. The government should absolutely not be involved, but the people behind the mosque shouldn't be drawing lines in the sand, particularly there...
Posted by TheCatt on Aug. 18 2010,11:06
(Leisher @ Aug. 18 2010,14:02)
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...the people behind the mosque shouldn't be drawing lines in the sand...
Racist.
Posted by Leisher on Aug. 18 2010,11:20
(TheCatt @ Aug. 18 2010,14:06)
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(Leisher @ Aug. 18 2010,14:02)
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...the people behind the mosque shouldn't be drawing lines in the sand...
Racist.
Ha! I didn't even think about that when I wrote it.
Which is more racist? Writing that or implying/believing that all Muslims live in the desert?
Posted by Malcolm on Aug. 18 2010,11:37
Much as I hate to cite the Catholic Church for proper procedures, once upon a time some nuns wanted to put up a nun recruitment center or something similar near the site of a Nazi concentration camp. The pope stepped in & put a stop to it, rightly so.
Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 18 2010,12:03
1) It's not a mosque, it's a community center. Like a YMCA for muslims. That's a big difference, IMO.2) The reason it's not a mosque and the reason they want to build it there is because it's intended to support one of the largest mosques in New York city. Which is already only a block-and-a-half away from that location. And was there a couple of decades before the towers were originally built.
This whole thing is just an excuse for conservative Christian assholes to be self-righteous and make more Osama/Obama jokes.
In my opinion.
Posted by Malcolm on Aug. 18 2010,13:11
All practical considerations notwithstanding, it looks damn bad. Bad enough that it might not be worth the trouble.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 18 2010,16:19
(TPRJones @ Aug. 18 2010,15:03)
QUOTE
This whole thing is just an excuse for conservative Christian assholes to be self-righteous and make more Osama/Obama jokes.
For the record, you're the first person in this thread to mention Obama.
Yeah, Obama expressed his opinion about this issue, and that is one of his problems. He keeps sharing his opinion about controversial issues that are really none of his business. When he does that, he just pisses off half the country who now think, right or wrong, "there's another reason this man is an idiot."
Not his job. Keeping his mouth shut would make everyone think he is wise... talking about it just proves to half the people how stupid he is.
In my opinion.
By the way, notice the new Obama-lover meme is "Obama is so unpopular because he does the right thing instead of the popular thing." Started seeing that idea everywhere, yesterday. Must have been another memo.
Hey, look at me, derailing the thread. Stop it.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 18 2010,16:48
Whew, our government is on it:Pelosi wants to spend public money to investigate people opposed to the project.
< http://www.foxnews.com/politic....-decide >
Posted by TheCatt on Aug. 18 2010,17:45
< Stuff the same distance away from WTC as the proposed bldg. >
Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 18 2010,18:19
(GORDON @ Aug. 18 2010,18:19)
QUOTE
(TPRJones @ Aug. 18 2010,15:03)
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This whole thing is just an excuse for conservative Christian assholes to be self-righteous and make more Osama/Obama jokes.
For the record, you're the first person in this thread to mention Obama.
Sure, but that comment wasn't directed at people here.
Posted by unkbill on Aug. 19 2010,15:45
(TPRJones @ Aug. 18 2010,12:03)
QUOTE
1) It's not a mosque, it's a community center. Like a YMCA for muslims. That's a big difference, IMO.
2) The reason it's not a mosque and the reason they want to build it there is because it's intended to support one of the largest mosques in New York city. Which is already only a block-and-a-half away from that location. And was there a couple of decades before the towers were originally built.
This whole thing is just an excuse for conservative Christian assholes to be self-righteous and make more Osama/Obama jokes.
In my opinion.
2) The reason it's not a mosque and the reason they want to build it there is because it's intended to support one of the largest mosques in New York city. Which is already only a block-and-a-half away from that location. And was there a couple of decades before the towers were originally built.
This whole thing is just an excuse for conservative Christian assholes to be self-righteous and make more Osama/Obama jokes.
In my opinion.
Absolutely right. The Mosque has been there longer. Do I think doingi t was a good idea. No. Is it there right. Yes. To so many people here are worried about our rights.Yes. They are going to make a memorial to 9/11 in the center. Not for the people that caused it either.
Was at an Internation Festiaval at the Toledo Mosque a few weeks ago. I made money and gave some back. My wife runs the Asain booth at the festival. I was there 10th year having the festival. This year found out thet the Cathlics help support this festival and why. The place in the Mosque where my wife prays is separated in half. Men on left. Woman on the rigrt. The kings or whoever from Arabia said woman pray behind men not side by side. The Imam said no. No more money from Arabia. Good for the Imam here.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 19 2010,15:49
That kind of thing should be marketed a bit.
Posted by unkbill on Aug. 19 2010,15:50
As for Obama he spoke his mind and it was twisted out of shape for other people causes. The buck stops here. He said the same thing I do. He said they have the right. He didn't say it might not be a good idea. Religius freedom. Even for none believers. Which seems to be the way it is going. One nation under God. Can I say that?
Posted by unkbill on Aug. 19 2010,16:29
(GORDON @ Aug. 19 2010,15:49)
QUOTE
That kind of thing should be marketed a bit.
Fine how do I make money on it? Just being Funny, or American.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 19 2010,16:33
(unkbill @ Aug. 19 2010,19:29)
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(GORDON @ Aug. 19 2010,15:49)
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That kind of thing should be marketed a bit.
Fine how do I make money on it? Just being Funny, or American.
Islam has an image problem. A local mosque showing they are not beholden to the more extreme, oppressive aspects of the religion would be good PR in general.
Posted by unkbill on Aug. 19 2010,16:57
(GORDON @ Aug. 19 2010,16:33)
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(unkbill @ Aug. 19 2010,19:29)
QUOTE
(GORDON @ Aug. 19 2010,15:49)
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That kind of thing should be marketed a bit.
Fine how do I make money on it? Just being Funny, or American.
Islam has an image problem. A local mosque showing they are not beholden to the more extreme, oppressive aspects of the religion would be good PR in general.
I agree. how do I make money from it? Just kidding, Guess I will just have to do it word of mouth, like here. I am tired of taking my kites to the hot as hell festival tent. But Wati is there cooking food. Introduced a knew concept to them this year. The reason my wifes booth makes the most money is she gets all the shit donated. They don't charge the Mosque for the meats or anything like the other countries do so they break even. Amagine that giving more to charity than time. I am very proud of her because that is what she wants to do. Wish Ramadon would end so I could eat before 830 at night. I eat during the day but can't bring myself to eat in front of someone fasting. I know I am a wusy.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 19 2010,17:01
NAh, that's class.
Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 23 2010,14:11
I never expected to string these particular words together anytime soon: < I think Roger Ebert is right. >
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 23 2010,15:00
(TPRJones @ Aug. 23 2010,17:11)
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I never expected to string these particular words together anytime soon: < I think Roger Ebert is right. >
I remember when being certain of anything was a sign of a small mind, unable to see the "nuance" of a situation.
Good thing Bush isn't in office any more.
Posted by Vince on Aug. 26 2010,05:17
Well, it’s a community center that will happen to contain a mosque. So it’s a bit of a stretch to say there’s no mosque.I don’t think there’s much that can be done to stop it unless there’s a problem with where the funding will come from.
As far as my opinion, let’s dispense with their notion that this is some sort of “outreach” thing on their part. When the city where you are trying to build the thing vehemently disapprove of its LOCATION by about 2 to 1 and you say, “Suck it, we’re building there anyway”. You’ve pretty much demonstrated that “outreach” and “understanding” can’t get much further down your list of objectives.
Also, the thing was called The Cordoba House until recently. When you do some research on Cordoba Spain and its place in Muslim history one has a hard time not thinking this is in fact a huge poke in the eye from the more radicalized Muslims here. I suspect the proposed name for the project changed when non-Muslims started to research the history of Cordoba.
If there were any leadership, the discussion would have never gotten this far. Someone would have had a higher up at the IRS call these guys and the conversation would have gone something like this:
“Congratulations on the new building you’re wanting to build. Due to the sensitive nature of the LOCATION of where you want to build this center, there are going to be a lot of people that want to make sure everything is on the up and up. So we’re going to need you to make space for a team of forensic accountants. The FBI will also probably need space for their bean counters as well. And there may be a couple of other agencies that need to look over everything as well. So plan on having us parked in your colon for the foreseeable future. At this point I’d say ‘indefinitely’. You know… do to the sensitive nature of WHERE you want to build this.”
Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 26 2010,06:32
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Well, it’s a community center that will happen to contain a mosque. So it’s a bit of a stretch to say there’s no mosque.
There's a chapel in the hospital down the street. That doesn't make the hospital a church.
QUOTE
When the city where you are trying to build the thing vehemently disapprove of its LOCATION by about 2 to 1...
Up until reading this, everything I've seen from every source has indicated exactly the opposite, that New Yorkers are 2 to 1 in support of these folks building what they want there.
QUOTE
So we’re going to need you to make space for a team of forensic accountants. The FBI will also probably need space for their bean counters as well.
It's a fucking community center. There will be kids playing basketball and doing fingerpainting. You really think it's worth the time of all the federal agents you want to pay to watch over these kids and make sure they aren't planning to blow themselves up during nap time?
Posted by Vince on Aug. 26 2010,16:24
(TPRJones @ Aug. 26 2010,08:32)
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There's a chapel in the hospital down the street. That doesn't make the hospital a church.
No, but the fact that the chapel is in a hospital doesn't make the chapel stop being a chapel.
QUOTE
Up until reading this, everything I've seen from every source has indicated exactly the opposite, that New Yorkers are 2 to 1 in support of these folks building what they want there.
Oh God no. < Link >
QUOTE
It's a fucking community center. There will be kids playing basketball and doing fingerpainting. You really think it's worth the time of all the federal agents you want to pay to watch over these kids and make sure they aren't planning to blow themselves up during nap time?
Mostly this would be a tool to disuade their building it there. I find it odd that they've been given a green light for this project, yet the Orthidox Greek Church in the same area still can't get the permits needed from the city to repair their church which was damaged in the original attack.
Might end up being a moot point. The unions have indicated that there will be no work done on building it. This might be the one time in my life I enjoy watching the stranglehold the unions have on the state of NY.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 26 2010,16:32
I predict the unions get paid off to actually do the work.
Posted by Malcolm on Aug. 26 2010,17:58
QUOTE
The unions have indicated that there will be no work done on building it. This might be the one time in my life I enjoy watching the stranglehold the unions have on the state of NY.
So blatant corruption is alright, but only if it works in your favour?
Posted by Vince on Aug. 26 2010,18:52
(Malcolm @ Aug. 26 2010,19:58)
QUOTE
QUOTE
The unions have indicated that there will be no work done on building it. This might be the one time in my life I enjoy watching the stranglehold the unions have on the state of NY.
So blatant corruption is alright, but only if it works in your favour?
No, but it's nice to see an organization that I generally have zero use for making itself useful once in a while.
Kind of like a cancer that just happens to take out some evil SOB. Doesn't mean I like cancer, but it's nice to see it serve the general good once in a while.
But in reality, we have Obama that's been on an apology tour to Islam since he's been elected. He comes out saying he supports the building of the mosque. And then there are the unions that have been in bed with him since his days as a state Senator for Ill. Then we have the union average schmo from NYC. So how's this going to play out? Will the union leadership try to buck their own members? Without them they don't have any power. Do they buck Obama? Without him the don't have nearly as much influence.
Gonna be a hell of a floor show.
Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 26 2010,19:16
(Vince @ Aug. 26 2010,18:24)
QUOTE
Oh God no. < Link >
Oh. Well, they are still wrong.
This comes down to ideologies. Either you support the freedoms outlined in the Bill of Rights, or you don't. If you don't, I don't think I can change your mind.
I don't see myself changing my mind, either.
Interestingly, this is the first time I can recall actually arguing in favor of something related to religion. Maybe it's because I can't see any differences between Muslims and Christians that I end up on this side of it.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 26 2010,20:03
(TPRJones @ Aug. 26 2010,22:16)
QUOTE
This comes down to ideologies.
Reminds me of the Onion article: "ACLU Defends Man's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters."
Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 27 2010,04:25
If these people had anything to do with terrorism you would have a point. But so far as I've seen they don't. If you've seen some evidence of that, I'd like to hear it.Would you be as angered if someone wanted to build a YMCA there? Or a Jewish Student Center? If so then fine, I still don't fully understand your point but it seems to be unbiased. If not then you have no basis other than anti-Muslim sentiment: that opinion it is your right to have but if you use it to stop someone from doing something that is clearly against the First Amendment. This is America: we don't discriminate against people because we don't like their particular flavor of imaginary friend. We leave that sort of thing to people from Iran, Israel, Italy, and other theocratic countries starting with the letter I.
If these people were actually criminals or had been shown to be terrorists you would have a point. If they were shown to be terrorist sympathizers but not actual terrorists themselves, then I think you'd still be wrong but then I would understand where you are coming from. As far as I know, none of that is the case. The mere fact that they are Muslim is not enough.
Honestly, I'm surprised at which side of this y'all have come down on. In the past on most divisive issues you've usually been in favor of supporting freedom instead of tyranny. I really don't get where this is coming from.
And damn you for making me defend Muslims. I oppose all religions and would rather grumble about that, but now you've got me defending one of them and that makes me feel dirty.
Posted by GORDON on Aug. 27 2010,09:10
No one has said they should be stopped. Quite the contrary. We just said it's a dick move.
Posted by TPRJones on Aug. 27 2010,09:33
Oh. Well, okay then.I don't agree with that, either, but I respect your right to have a wrong-headed opinion.
Posted by thibodeaux on Oct. 08 2010,06:46
Best one so far, from Facebook:QUOTE
Eric Tornay Regarding the Mosque near ground zero. I say let them build it..But across the street we should put a topless bar called "you mecca me hot" next to that a gay bar called "the turban cowboy" and next to that a pork-rib restaurant called "iraq o'ribs" and then a cash checking......center called "iran out of money".... lets see who's tolerant.
Posted by GORDON on Mar. 27 2011,14:15
I was reading a little nothing story about a Holocaust memorial going in near the "Ground Zero" mosque. I tend to avoid these stories because I get tired of the left being condescending toward me, telling me how allah is love and blah blah blah bullshit. I was really surprised to see this completely buried in the story:QUOTE
In January, the new imam of Park 51, Abdallah Adhami, was fired after it was discovered that he preached that homosexuals were abused as children and that people who leave Islam should be jailed.
Read more: < http://www.nypost.com/p....pwYaV8m >
Read more: < http://www.nypost.com/p....pwYaV8m >
Was the fact the imam of this place wants to jail peeps who leave his little club ever reported anywhere, ever, before now?