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Forum: General Stuff
Topic: The Oil Spill
started by: Troy

Posted by Troy on Apr. 30 2010,10:26

I'm sure everyone has read the story by now. Rig explosions, multiple leaks 1.5 kilometers underground, no obvious solutions. < CNN Story >

This is a moderately big deal on the news sites. It should be bigger. It will really start to get noticed when the pictures of wildlife covered in oil start rolling in a week or so.

40% of the seafood you eat comes from this region. All of the blue crab. Oyster, Shrimp, all of the fisheries will be wiped out.

The spill in Alaska was bad, sure. But it was mostly on a rocky coastline that was more straight-forward to clean. This one will be come ashore on wetlands and estuaries, the worst possible scenario. Entire fisheries are going to be wiped out. The fishermen in me dies every-time I read another news story, or account, or prediction.

I'm hoping that these are are all far flung, that they will somehow get the leak contained, and the environmental impact won't be as bad as I think it is. I can only hope. Fuck.

Pictures:

Posted by Troy on Apr. 30 2010,10:29

Let go ahead and add that I'm not against drilling, it's sort of a necessary evil, and that there are tons of rigs that do this without ecological disasters. But I don't totally understand how rigs that are designed to withstand Cat 5 Hurricanes can not have enough safety systems to stop the flow of oil in the event of an explosion or accident.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 30 2010,10:49

Sort of makes me wish we were drilling in the middle of nowhere, Alaska instead of our gulf coast.

Posted by Troy on Apr. 30 2010,12:48

We do drill all over Alaska as far as I know.

Unless you mean that you want to somehow replace the the 600,000 square miles that make up the Gulf of Mexico with the Artic National Wildlife Refuge , which is less than 50,000 square miles. I'm sure that will work somehow.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 30 2010,13:00

Ok.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 30 2010,14:25

Wow. Lots of everyone dropping the ball on this.

QUOTE

BP planned to use ROVs to close the blow out preventer (BOP) valves on the well head 5,000 feet below the surface of the water. The valve closing procedure was estimated to take 24 to 36 hours as of April 25. As of April 28, BP has been unsuccessful in accomplishing this.

QUOTE

BP engineers are working on two other options to secure the source. The first and fastest is to place a dome over the well head that will capture the oil and pipe it to the surface to be contained in a storage vessel, but it will still take weeks for the design and fabrication of the dome before it can be put in place.

QUOTE

BP is also preparing to drill a relief well into the original well to relieve it ... this operation will take two to three months to stop the flow of oil, however.

BP only leases the platform from Transocean, the world's largest offshore drilling firm. Going to be fun to see who succeeds in blaming the other.

Posted by unkbill on Apr. 30 2010,16:08

(Troy @ Apr. 30 2010,10:29)

QUOTE

I'm not totally against drilling. I'm against fuck ups like this. What the hell happened to the blow out valve and the other manual valves that supposedly are in place. I'm sure with time and money it can all recover but I wish it would have been stopped before this.
BP will lose billions I would think. When it takes them under you think the government will bail them out. Seems to be the trend.

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 30 2010,16:21

(Troy @ Apr. 30 2010,12:29)

QUOTE

But I don't totally understand how rigs that are designed to withstand Cat 5 Hurricanes can not have enough safety systems to stop the flow of oil in the event of an explosion or accident.

Hurricanes aren't internal, fiery explosions. Building components to resist external threats is one thing. Securing individual components against internal stupidity is another.

< Piper Alpha, worst oil rig disaster in history >. Occurred because some fucking moron didn't read a piece of paper and there were ZERO internal controls to prevent it.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 30 2010,17:06

Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence...

< http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30137052.htm >

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 30 2010,17:26

(GORDON @ Apr. 30 2010,19:06)

QUOTE

Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence...

< http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30137052.htm >

What kind of fucking retard engineers are getting certified nowadays?

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 30 2010,17:30

NASA can't get men into space any more. They even fucked up an expensive balloon launch the other day. This country is in serious decline. Learn to speak Chinese.

Posted by GORDON on Apr. 30 2010,17:33

Conspiracy theory: The Koreans are torpedoing oil rigs.

< http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1367.htm >

Posted by Malcolm on Apr. 30 2010,20:22

(GORDON @ Apr. 30 2010,19:33)

QUOTE

Conspiracy theory: The Koreans are torpedoing oil rigs.

< http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1367.htm >

They're barely organized enough to fuck up a half-assed missile launch. They'd barely be able to keep a crew fed to survive the round-trip voyage from North Korea to Mexican waters & back.

Posted by Leisher on Apr. 30 2010,22:44

(GORDON @ Apr. 30 2010,20:33)

QUOTE

Conspiracy theory: The Koreans are torpedoing oil rigs.

< http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1367.htm >

WTF is that site? How did you come across that? Have you read all their articles? Insanity.

Posted by unkbill on May 17 2010,15:59

Started long before Bush or Bama. Gov. people looking the other way. I was out there. More towards Texas than Venice. La. My dad went out of there.
It is so beautiful 100 miles out. Now because of greed, a couples bosses arguing over who was in charge and a few people ignoring accidents that happened weeks before. It is fucking up a lot of the Gulf and what a couple million peoples lives.
Sorry if you don't like it but this really fucked up my planet. Yes it can recover. But it should have never been fucked up in the first place.

Posted by Vince on May 17 2010,18:11

(Troy @ Apr. 30 2010,12:29)

QUOTE

The problem wasn't the rig. If you ever watched Armageddon and there's the scene where the Armadillo hits the gas pocket? That's pretty much what happened. And actual rig explosion isn't that big of a deal to contain. The pretty much just seal the top of the piping until the platform can be replaced or repaired and they start up again. This blew everything out right at the ocean floor (from my understanding).

Posted by Cakedaddy on May 17 2010,18:53

I've been boycotting BP since the early 90's. So, I've been to been doing my part. It's all you other losers that have been buying BP all these years that have helped support crappy treatment of our territory by BP. I started boycotting them after reading how they were dumping shit illegally in fields and streams and stuff. It took the whole Gulf for you people to wake up!

Now, if only you'd see that boycotting EA is the smart thing to do as well. What are they going to have to destroy for you to see. As if they haven't destroyed enough!

But seriously, I really have been boycotting BP since the early '90's because of dumping shit in our fields and streams.

Posted by GORDON on May 17 2010,20:11

You haven't been boycotting BP because it is my understanding that all the oil anybody ever pumps and drills ends up in a pool, like if you say "I am boycotting that farmer's crops because he is an asshole," when the reality is that his crops end up in the same grain elevator as everyone elses, and the farmer bringing his crops into the local commodity market has its effect on the price of that commodity, boycott or not.

So you mean you are boycotting BP service stations, yes? Not buying their candy bars and lottery tickets?

Anyway, anyone who drives a car with an internal combustion engine shares some blame. Want to be righteous about a petroleum spill, sell the car and ride a bike everywhere, first.

Posted by Cakedaddy on May 17 2010,20:29

I'm walking everywhere, because the rubber that makes the tires is a petroleum based product (I think). And I'm wearing moccasins.

But ya, I haven't shopped at a BP in many, many years. Last time I did was to use their outdoor power plug to charge my cellphone cause it was dead and my car charger was broken.

And I don't believe you about the pool. They keep that shit separate. I can tell.

Posted by TPRJones on May 17 2010,20:29

I'm betting that they'll get it capped sometime in the next two or three weeks, but not sooner than that.

No, I'm really betting on that. I've got a limit buy order in on their stock for $41.72.

Posted by GORDON on May 17 2010,20:39

I wonder why they don't send an expandable hose down the broken shaft and then inflate it to plug the hole.

Posted by Troy on May 18 2010,06:02

(GORDON @ May 17 2010,20:39)

QUOTE

I wonder why they don't send an expandable hose down the broken shaft and then inflate it to plug the hole.

I've heard the PSI involved with the leak is massive.

It's hard to put anything on it and having it stay.

Posted by unkbill on May 18 2010,06:19

(Vince @ May 17 2010,18:11)

QUOTE

(Troy @ Apr. 30 2010,12:29)

QUOTE

From what I watched three weeks before the accident a controller bumped a joystick arm which put thousands of pounds of pressure on the safety plug. Rubber chunks started coming up from the damaged gasket, ignored. The day it blew the head BP and the head driller get into a chest thumping battle. BP wins and plugs the well in a new not as safe way and isn't detected because the rubber gasket is damaged which gives the wrong pressure readings, but it will save time when the pump rig comes in.
The same day the cluster fuck unfolds.

Posted by Leisher on May 18 2010,06:38

QUOTE

I wonder why they don't send an expandable hose down the broken shaft and then inflate it to plug the hole.

Fuck you man.

I tried my best, but it's hard to stay excited while holding your breath that long.

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 01 2010,10:59

Interesting video. Apparently even if it does take nine months to fix the problem, the environment will bounce back. It did before.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 01 2010,11:27

I still can't believe they've got this thing pumping out oil. Your engineers suck, BP. You've tried at least half a dozen options & they've all failed. A freshman physics frat could probably out-think your team.

Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 01 2010,13:21

Unlike perhaps 99% of people commenting on the oil spill, I actually know people who know something about the oil business. Quite a few of my family members work or have worked on oil rigs all over the world. My uncle was basically boss of rigs (I forget his actual title) and my cousin co-founded a directional drilling company. Their take: the only thing that's going to work is the offset well.

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 01 2010,13:42

Very large cork.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 01 2010,14:33

(thibodeaux @ Jun. 01 2010,15:21)

QUOTE

Then they just went through pretending all that other crap had a snowball's chance in hell?

Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 01 2010,15:16

Who knows?

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 01 2010,15:43

If they just would've said, straight up, "This is going to take a few months before we can show any visible progress," then I wouldn't be on them as much. As it stands, they're trying (badly) to spin things every time one of their "surefire" methods chokes.

Posted by Leisher on Jun. 01 2010,21:58

BP and their engineers, who do this shit for a living, can't get the job done, so the feds turn to...< Hollywood. >

Seriously.

What. The. Fuck.

Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 02 2010,04:16

He's rich, therefore he must be smart.

Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 02 2010,04:18

< It makes perfect sense now >.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 02 2010,07:40

< We swear, it'll really work this time. Really >.

Posted by Troy on Jun. 02 2010,08:08

You guys can't be that shocked that they are looking at outside thinking. James Cameron certainly is an odd choice for that, though.

This is a fuckup of epic proportions. Today I believe the engineers are trying another "cut the pipe" method. Which has the added byproduct of increasing the spill rate by 20% or so.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 02 2010,08:40

(Troy @ Jun. 02 2010,10:08)

QUOTE

Only if they fuck it up. & they haven't fucked up yet. Oh wait...

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 02 2010,08:51

Saw last night BP's stock has fallen by... 40%? I think it was 40%. Was tired at the time.

Pretty good incentive for companies to not fuck up again in the future... but I am sure we will get more government control/off shore drilling bans out of this.

And, more expensive gas and reliance on mid east oil.

Posted by unkbill on Jun. 02 2010,08:52

(Malcolm @ Jun. 02 2010,08:40)

QUOTE

(Troy @ Jun. 02 2010,10:08)

QUOTE

Only if they fuck it up. & they haven't fucked up yet. Oh wait...

From what I heard on the news this morning every procedure that they have tried would have worked at 200 feet. It is the depth that is raising all the hell. Oh and the fact that it happened in the first place.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 02 2010,08:57

(GORDON @ Jun. 02 2010,10:51)

QUOTE

Hopefully the engineers that look after the nuclear plants are more competent than the ones that drill into the water.

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 02 2010,09:12

As long as the nuclear plants aren't more than 200 feet under water, apparently.

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 02 2010,11:13

(Malcolm @ Jun. 02 2010,10:57)

QUOTE

Hopefully the engineers that look after the nuclear plants are more competent than the ones that drill into the water.

Fortunately with modern reactor design it's impossible to accidentaly cause major catastrophes. They're the most foolproof creations of man by several orders of magnitude.

Too bad we aren't allowed to build new ones and have to rely on much older and much less safe reactors. *sigh*

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 02 2010,12:32

(TPRJones @ Jun. 02 2010,13:13)

QUOTE

(Malcolm @ Jun. 02 2010,10:57)

QUOTE

Hopefully the engineers that look after the nuclear plants are more competent than the ones that drill into the water.

There's no design so perfect that a big enough idiot can't fuck it up.

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 02 2010,14:55

I'm not so sure. These reactors might fit that description. Although that's only if it's built following the design; I will stipulate that idiots during the construction phase could render it possible to fuck up.

Posted by Leisher on Jun. 04 2010,10:00

Posted by WSGrundy on Jun. 04 2010,13:43

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 04 2010,14:19

I think BP, as a brand, is in trouble in this country.

Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 04 2010,14:53

A lot of people thought the same about Exxon, but true, this is bigger.

I bought some BP stock today on a flier.. we'll see.

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 04 2010,17:41

Welcome to the club. I bought it last week. Wish I had waited a little longer.

On the up side, their current physical assets come out to about $50 a share, so in the long run it's a good deal. Just a question of how long that will have to be.

Posted by TheCatt on Jun. 08 2010,07:45

Posted by Leisher on Jun. 10 2010,13:29

Ok, this Hollywood star < actually makes sense. > Not so much in something he's saying, but the fact that they're talking to him because, as it turns out, he's actually in the oil cleanup business.

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 10 2010,13:44

Yeah, too bad it doesn't work at any sort of useful scale. If you ever get an oil spill in your swimming pool, then it might be worth the time to use this method.

Costner might mean well, but his actions are those of just another asshole using his fame to get someone in his family some cash.

Posted by unkbill on Jun. 10 2010,16:39

"This is a technology that I believe has the potential to fight catastrophic oil spills ... These will serve as the first line of defense in the oil spill clean-up and recovery.

That statement alone to me is scary. This should be the most catastrophic event this planet ever has to put up with. Is he saying there is going to be another. It is just wrong thinking. How about just maybe this doesn't have to happen again. I am such a tree hugger. I hope you people will help me. You don't have to actually hug a tree.

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 10 2010,17:33

Dude, there aren't any trees a thousand feet underwater.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 15 2010,08:23

< The hypocrisy positively drips from this one >.

"Why aren't your safety procedures adequate?"
"Because you fuckers campaigned on the platform of reducing dependency on foreign oil."

Posted by Leisher on Jun. 15 2010,10:37

QUOTE

This should be the most catastrophic event this planet ever has to put up with. Is he saying there is going to be another.

Hate to break it to you, but worse events have happened, and WILL happen.

Not all are man made either. Perhaps you've forgotten Hurricane Katrina or any of the other hurricanes that have made landfall and devastated whatever society was/is there. How about the earthquake in Haiti? The tidal wave that killed 300K in Indonesia? This is a short list of recent events only. It doesn't include past events or potential future ones.

Yes, mother nature can fuck the environment up too. That oil would have eventually found its way out of the ground naturally.

Sure, man can make mistakes with the environment, but if we learn from them and develop technology to prevent it from happening in the future, then it's win-win for us and nature.

Posted by Troy on Jun. 15 2010,10:38

(Leisher @ Jun. 15 2010,10:37)

QUOTE

That oil would have eventually found its way out of the ground naturally.

You can't be serious with that argument.

How about "Sure he was poisoned with Cyanide, but he would have eaten enough almonds, eventually"

Posted by Leisher on Jun. 15 2010,10:58

(Troy @ Jun. 15 2010,13:38)

QUOTE

(Leisher @ Jun. 15 2010,10:37)

QUOTE

That oil would have eventually found its way out of the ground naturally.

You can't be serious with that argument.

How about "Sure he was poisoned with Cyanide, but he would have eaten enough almonds, eventually"

What argument? Seriously.

I'm not defending the oil leak, I'm pointing out to Unk that catastrophes happen all the time with and without man's help.

Please don't cherry pick my posts and try to start a debate by taking something out of context.

Posted by unkbill on Jun. 15 2010,11:07

(Leisher @ Jun. 15 2010,10:37)

QUOTE

Sure, man can make mistakes with the environment, but if we learn from them and develop technology to prevent it from happening in the future, then it's win-win for us and nature.

I wish I had that much faith in my fellow man. I'm still not against offshore drilling just want it done safely. It may come out a win/win but at how much of a cost. And I don't mean money wise.
As for BP. I believe they brought it on themselves by stupidity and corporate greed.

Posted by Leisher on Jun. 15 2010,11:11

QUOTE

I wish I had that much faith in my fellow man.

If it makes you feel better, I think people suck. However, in a case like this, I KNOW it won't happen again. How? Because it's costing people money. People don't like to lose money. They'll develop a new system that prevents something like this from happening again.

QUOTE

As for BP. I believe they brought it on themselves by stupidity and corporate greed.

Don't be too quick to strap all the blame on BP. Remember that our government oversees this stuff. Also, there was another company involved who may actually be responsible for the rig.

Is BP blameless? Hell no, but I don't think they are solely responsible.

Posted by unkbill on Jun. 15 2010,13:00

The cities of Gulf Shores & Orange Beach have persuaded BP to purchase ten additional beach raking machines to facilitate faster and more effective clean up. The mechanical beach rakes are capable of sifting even very small contaminates from the sand efficiently and safely. There are now five machines cleaning the beaches daily. The cities are working with the U.S. Coast Guard and EPA to determine the best time to operate the rakes-- most likely at night following low tide.

Well that is good news anyhow.

Posted by Leisher on Jun. 15 2010,17:10

QUOTE

The cities of Gulf Shores & Orange Beach have persuaded BP to purchase ten additional beach raking machines to facilitate faster and more effective clean up.

I saw a report on those over the weekend. Apparently the cities really demanded BP buy them insisting they'd be better and faster than BP's manual method. According to the report I saw, they suck and BP's manual method is still the way to go.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 15 2010,17:51

QUOTE

Is BP blameless? Hell no, but I don't think they are solely responsible.

BP would absolutely love NOT to drill down a mile in the ocean if they had some better way to provide energy. Windmills & solar panels don't fucking cut it. The R+D costs for keeping up technology, tools, & training even to have a realistic shot at getting the bubbly up from the depths are massive.

On the other hand, they've apparently got incompetent engineers, managers, or both. Crucify them for that. But they wouldn't need to perform drilling miracles if we started exploring other ways to provide fuel. *cough* *nuclear power* *cough*

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 15 2010,17:57

Or even drilling closer to shore. As someone said earlier, this would have been an easy fix in 200 feet of water.

Can't because of legislation.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 16 2010,09:36

QUOTE

Remember that our government oversees this stuff.

< Smoke, meet gun. Gun, smoke. >

QUOTE

That's according to newly released government inspection reports that show the Deepwater Horizon rig was only surveyed six times in 2008, even though the government requires drilling rigs to be inspected every month. In total, it missed 16 checks since January 2005. It's unclear whether the lapse is the fault of federal authorities or BP itself.

Uh, bullshit. Unless you think that BP can just inspect its own platforms & answer to no one. Everyone in Congress should just forfeit their pay.

Actually, one of them has < another idea > ...

QUOTE

"Well, in the Asian culture, we do things differently. During the Samurai days, we'd just give you the knife and ask you to commit hara-kiri," said Cao, who is Vietnamese-American. "My constituents are still debating on what they want me to ask you to do."

Hilarious.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 21 2010,08:54

< Kill the moratorium >. Directly from the mouth of the Louisiana governor.

Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 21 2010,13:37

Well, no shit. Because when:
1. Half the rednecks in a state full of rednecks works in an industry and
2. 99.999% of your tax revenue comes from taxing that industry

you're gonna want that industry to stick around.

Listen to me, people: THERE ARE NO JOBS AND NEVER HAVE BEEN AND NEVER WILL BE ANY JOBS IN LOUISIANA, EXCEPT:
* cutting down trees and turning them into boards or paper
* catching tasty animals and turning them into food
* pumping dead dinosours out of the ground
* welfare queen

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 21 2010,14:42

Don't forget:
* running casinos for visiting Texans

Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 22 2010,04:55

That falls under welfare queen.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 28 2010,08:17

< Florida governor a bit of a psycho >.

QUOTE

"I would like to have a special session to ban it here in the Sunshine State," he told CBS "Early Show" anchor Harry Smith. "We're so dependent on tourism for our economy, it's very important that we keep [the beaches] clean."

Yeah, tourism is what keeps your air conditioning working.

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 30 2010,07:57

The Dutch have ships capable of cleaning 99% of the oil fromt he water.

The American EPA won't allow them in the gulf because the require 99.9985% efficiency.

< http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html >

QUOTE

Why does neither the U.S. government nor U.S. energy companies have on hand the cleanup technology available in Europe? Ironically, the superior European technology runs afoul of U.S. environmental rules. The voracious Dutch vessels, for example, continuously suck up vast quantities of oily water, extract most of the oil and then spit overboard vast quantities of nearly oil-free water. Nearly oil-free isn't good enough for the U.S. regulators, who have a standard of 15 parts per million -- if water isn't at least 99.9985% pure, it may not be returned to the Gulf of Mexico.

Let's keep saying how there is nothing Obama can do about the oil spill, and it isn't his fault.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 30 2010,08:04

(GORDON @ Jun. 30 2010,09:57)

QUOTE

The American EPA won't allow them in the gulf because the require 99.9985% efficiency.

So, where do we get ships with that batting average?

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 30 2010,08:40

(Malcolm @ Jun. 30 2010,11:04)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Jun. 30 2010,09:57)

QUOTE

The American EPA won't allow them in the gulf because the require 99.9985% efficiency.

So, where do we get ships with that batting average?

We don't. According to the article, the EPA requires the water to be stored in the ship, brought to shore, scrubbed to that percentage, and then released back into the gulf.

Posted by Troy on Jun. 30 2010,09:33

That article is kind of funny. The Story is on how foreign oil companies are fantastic because they are directly controlled, heavily regulated, and government directed(12 hour contingency) to have better responses to oil spills.

Then 100 comments on how the Obama administration is the devil because they want to add more restriction and oversight to oil companies.

I just don't get the logic. Before this, I've read on these boards about how "Corporations take care of themselves," how regulations are unneeded, and more regulations just cause job losses and less competitive marketplaces.

So regulations were eased, the EPA was neutered, and then when something bad happens, It's the governments fault because they trusted corporations to take care of their own problems. Members of the GOP even apologize to BP that we want to hold them accountable for their fuck-ups.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 30 2010,10:21

(Troy @ Jun. 30 2010,11:33)

QUOTE

So regulations were eased, the EPA was neutered, and then when something bad happens, It's the governments fault because they trusted corporations to take care of their own problems. Members of the GOP even apologize to BP that we want to hold them accountable for their fuck-ups.

It is the fucking gov't's fault when they fail to keep up their half of the regulation biz. The gov't missed the inspections, didn't follow them up, and never halted construction or operations on the platform. They aren't regulators, they're the mafia that takes a cut & hangs you the fuck out to dry when things go bad. It's in their interests when things like this happen, then they can spend more time & money trying to figure out new creatively useless ways in some vain attempt to "send a message" or make sure it "never happens again." Then they can get reelected & keep their sweet, sweet kickbacks coming in. They make their living on other people's suffering & the false promises of ending said suffering.

Again, is BP responsible for their doing biz with incompetent companies & their own idiot engineers. Sure. Get them for general stupidity. However, they sure as fuck weren't trying to ejaculate a couple million gallons of oil per day, & get hammered for a $20 billion escrow in the process because of some media coverage of birds drenched in crude.

Do you want to make it harder to put up oil platforms? I sure as fuck don't. We can either stop bitching about the bad things that happen when you drill a mile down into the sea at funny angles or figure out an easier, less risky way to produce energy. If the GOVERNMENT didn't have such fucked up regulations on nuclear power, we could toss up a few of those plants.

So yeah, fuck the government. This shit is what happens when you run an industry into the fucking ground like they have.

Posted by Troy on Jun. 30 2010,11:00

Normally when I think "running into the ground" I don't normally think of some of the highest profits margins, executive salaries, and lowest tax rates of any corporations that operate in the US.

I agree that the government has been so fucking up big oil's ass the last 9 years that they couldn't see the sunlight. Heaven forbid we actually try to change some these "policies" by introducing real government oversight that isn't clogged to the brim with kickbacks and corruption.

As to nuclear power, I'd say it's coming along at about the rate you would expect, given the horrible PR from 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, etc. Most new Nuclear Power initiatives require votes from populaces scared of raising children with 12 toes.

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 30 2010,11:34

QUOTE

...by introducing real government oversight that isn't clogged to the brim with kickbacks and corruption.

Hell, you might as well try to run your car with unicorn blood and leprechaun tears. Because they're just as likely to exist as what you are asking for here.

QUOTE

Most new Nuclear Power initiatives require votes from populaces ~~scared of raising children with 12 toes~~ woefully uneducated about science and technology, and disgustingly proud of their ignorance.

Fixed.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 30 2010,11:43

(Troy @ Jun. 30 2010,13:00)

QUOTE

Normally when I think "running into the ground" I don't normally think of some of the highest profits margins, executive salaries, and lowest tax rates of any corporations that operate in the US.

Offset by the massive R+D costs that go into researching & investigating all the technology & equipment needed to pull off modern deep-sea drilling or energy production in general.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 30 2010,11:52

(Troy @ Jun. 30 2010,13:00)

QUOTE

As to nuclear power, I'd say it's coming along at about the rate you would expect, given the horrible PR from 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, etc. Most new Nuclear Power initiatives require votes from populaces scared of raising children with 12 toes.

1) Three Mile Island -- not actually a total meltdown. If that's the worst accident we ever have, we're doing pretty damn well.

2) Chernobyl -- not us. I'm not going to have my national power needs ignored because some commies couldn't figure out physics a few decades ago. I hear Pintos used to explode in a rear-end collision. Better stop driving any & all cars ever produced for the rest of eternity.

Not too mention that it's been forever since we've had above a level 3 nuclear incident.

Posted by Troy on Jun. 30 2010,13:02

(Malcolm @ Jun. 30 2010,11:43)

QUOTE

(Troy @ Jun. 30 2010,13:00)

QUOTE

Normally when I think "running into the ground" I don't normally think of some of the highest profits margins, executive salaries, and lowest tax rates of any corporations that operate in the US.

Offset by the massive R+D costs that go into researching & investigating all the technology & equipment needed to pull off modern deep-sea drilling or energy production in general.

Profits = revenue - expenses, of which R+D is principle. Unless you mean it offsets revenue? I'd say that Oil companies haven't had much trouble offsetting R+D essentially since their inception. For some odd reason, these profits seemed to spike during the Bush/Cheney Whitehouse. (shock)

Also, you guys are barking up the wrong tree about Nuclear power, I'm too young to even be born/remember any previous problems. You can throw facts and figures and statistics at people as much as possible. The voting public still, for whatever reason, distrust nuclear power, as dumb as that is. The anti-intellectual movement cuts both ways, I suppose.

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 30 2010,13:17

QUOTE

The voting public still, for whatever reason, distrust nuclear power

I blame The Simpsons.

Posted by Troy on Jun. 30 2010,13:21

(TPRJones @ Jun. 30 2010,13:17)

QUOTE

The voting public still, for whatever reason, distrust nuclear power

I blame The Simpsons.

Or bad Jean-Claude Van Damme movies!!

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 30 2010,13:58

QUOTE

The Americans, overwhelmed by the catastrophic consequences of the BP spill, finally relented and took the Dutch up on their offer -- but only partly. Because the U.S. didn't want Dutch ships working the Gulf, the U.S. airlifted the Dutch equipment to the Gulf and then retrofitted it to U.S. vessels. And rather than have experienced Dutch crews immediately operate the oil-skimming equipment, to appease labour unions the U.S. postponed the clean-up operation to allow U.S. crews to be trained.

A catastrophe that could have been averted is now playing out. With oil increasingly reaching the Gulf coast, the emergency construction of sand berns to minimize the damage is imperative. Again, the U.S. government priority is on U.S. jobs, with the Dutch asked to train American workers rather than to build the berns. According to Floris Van Hovell, a spokesman for the Dutch embassy in Washington, Dutch dredging ships could complete the berms in Louisiana twice as fast as the U.S. companies awarded the work. "Given the fact that there is so much oil on a daily basis coming in, you do not have that much time to protect the marshlands," he says, perplexed that the U.S. government could be so focussed on side issues with the entire Gulf Coast hanging in the balance.

Read more: < http://www.financialpost.com/Avertib....N8UQNKX >

Trust the government. The government is good, the government is wise.

Posted by Troy on Jun. 30 2010,14:09

(GORDON @ Jun. 30 2010,13:58)

QUOTE

Trust the government. The government is good, the government is wise.

I have never seen a Conservative more angry about not outsourcing jobs.

Doesn't this all require the company, BP, to waive the Jones act in the first place. What exactly does the government have to do with this?

Posted by TPRJones on Jun. 30 2010,14:29

"To appease labour unions"? Seriously? What the shit?

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, a true conservative has no problems with job outsourcing, because they are the natural result of a market imbalance being exploited - and eventually corrected - by free market forces. It's only modern non-conservative 'Conservatives' that like to talk about "building a wall".

Posted by Troy on Jun. 30 2010,14:33

(TPRJones @ Jun. 30 2010,14:29)

QUOTE

"To appease labour unions"? Seriously? What the shit?

I love how this claimed... and then you know, fact checked on exactly nothing.

A little research and quotes from people not associated with the dutch company that was stiffed, that'd make for an article worth believing.

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 30 2010,14:33

(Troy @ Jun. 30 2010,17:09)

QUOTE

(GORDON @ Jun. 30 2010,13:58)

QUOTE

Trust the government. The government is good, the government is wise.

I have never seen a Conservative more angry about not outsourcing jobs.

Yeah. I guess my first priority in this situation is getting the fire put out more than I care about who puts it out.

Posted by Malcolm on Jun. 30 2010,15:06

QUOTE

The voting public still, for whatever reason, distrust nuclear power, as dumb as that is.

The same voting public that thinks the dudes they vote for still give a fuck.

QUOTE

A little research and quotes from people not associated with the dutch company that was stiffed, that'd make for an article worth believing.

< List of everyone our gov't has told to go fuck off >.

QUOTE

According to CRS Report 97-905, the Jones Act is , “The common reference for Section 27 of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (41 Stat. 988), which requires that all water transportation of goods between U.S. ports be on U.S.-built, -owned, -crewed, and -operated ships. The purpose of the law is to support the U.S. merchant marine industry, but agricultural interests generally oppose it because, they contend, it raises the cost of shipping their goods, making them less competitive with foreign sources.”

Why do you need the Dutch to say anything? The law essentially tells them to fuck off prior to asking. Why we're still following that law in these circumstances is beyond me.

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 30 2010,15:11

(Malcolm @ Jun. 30 2010,18:06)

QUOTE

Why do you need the Dutch to say anything? The law essentially tells them to fuck off prior to asking. Why we're still following that law in these circumstances is beyond me.

Because out President hasn't taken up the mantel of leadership, and gotten the job done in spite of laws.

Let the President take a bunch of shit for it after the fact... the fact he acted decisively to do the right thing... at least once... would get respect from me, and a lot of other people.

But.... some people seem to need to defend this government no matter what it does.

Fuck the oil spill... we got bureaucracy to observe.

Posted by unkbill on Jun. 30 2010,15:18

(GORDON @ Jun. 30 2010,15:11)

QUOTE

(Malcolm @ Jun. 30 2010,18:06)

QUOTE

Why do you need the Dutch to say anything? The law essentially tells them to fuck off prior to asking. Why we're still following that law in these circumstances is beyond me.

I wish he would have said fuck it and got something like that done. Do I pin the whole thing on him. No, I think my entire government has failed me by not making this a smaller BIG mess.

Posted by GORDON on Jun. 30 2010,15:28

So many people so quick to attack Bush for Katrina are the same people so quick to defend Obama in this. It is stupid and ignorant and hypocritical. I base my entire opinion of that demographic of people based on that one fact.

Posted by unkbill on Jun. 30 2010,17:45

Katrina was fucked up in some points. FEMA I think is a government joke and will stand by what I said. I think the whole government is to blame. From bottom to top.

Posted by Leisher on Aug. 05 2010,06:31

It has been hinted that BP was not at fault for what happened in the gulf.

< Here comes the evidence? >

Posted by Malcolm on Aug. 05 2010,07:29

(Leisher @ Aug. 05 2010,08:31)

QUOTE

It has been hinted that BP was not at fault for what happened in the gulf.

< Here comes the evidence? >

It will take decades for all the legal dust to settle.

Posted by unkbill on Aug. 05 2010,18:29

Funny this gives a good explanation on what happened. Funny how the rest of the interview said how the head BP guy over rode his boss' ideas about how to precede that day and take a more dangerous attack on getting the oil. Funny how information can be shaped.

< http://www.thedailybeast.com/video....failing >

Posted by GORDON on Dec. 20 2010,11:46

Environmentalists dismayed that effects of the spill are no longer affecting anything as far as we can tell, and no "environmental legislation" is happening because of that.

< http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2037876,00.html >

Better luck next time, environmentalists. Let's hope next time the damage is way more serious so you can have what you want.

Posted by Malcolm on Jan. 07 2011,16:58

< Blame officially assigned. >
You'll notice everyone pretty much just blames everyone else.

Posted by GORDON on Oct. 01 2014,05:48

Was searching for something else and found this thread.

Just wanted to point out there is still seafood.