Topic: Diet and Exercise
started by: thibodeaux
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2010,06:54
Since we don't need to clog the other thread. Here's the deal:1. Don't do aerobics/running
2. Eat lots of tasty animals
3. Don't eat grains or sugar
First up, the case against cardio. I can drop links on you all day, but < this one post has a great list >:
QUOTE
Lowered testosterone and HGH levels
For men, aerobics are a form of chemical castration. Low T-levels are associated with lowered libido, depression, anxiety, increased body fat and decreased muscle tissue. This contributes to muscle-wasting and lowers the basal metabolic rate.
For men, aerobics are a form of chemical castration. Low T-levels are associated with lowered libido, depression, anxiety, increased body fat and decreased muscle tissue. This contributes to muscle-wasting and lowers the basal metabolic rate.
If that doesn't convince you, what will?
Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 23 2010,07:03
Well, two out of three for me!
Posted by Troy on Mar. 23 2010,07:24
Testosterone only decreases when you do cardio for over 60 minutes, sorry.Too little exercise, drinking, and getting old will decrease it much faster.
Posted by Troy on Mar. 23 2010,07:40
As to diet.Fiber and Lean Protein.
Eat lots of it.
If you are training your endurance, eat enough carbs keep to keep it in the 40/40/20.
Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 23 2010,07:59
2/3 for me as well.Since my Achilles' healed (mid-October), I've dropped 37 pounds by eating less and moving more. I do 3 hours of high intensity cardio (>150bpm), and 8-10 hours of low intensity (110-120bpm) cardio a week. The high intensity cardio will drop in 3 weeks and go back to 90 minutes a week: 1 long run, the rest intervals. And I'll pick up weights again.
My calorie breakdown is approximately: [I eat 1800 calories a day]
33% fat 600cal/66g
42% carbs 750cal/188g
25% protein 450cal/112g
So carbs are a bit higher than I thought, primarily due to fruit.
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2010,08:20
(Troy @ Mar. 23 2010,10:40)
QUOTE
As to diet.
Fiber and Lean Protein.
Eat lots of it.
If you are training your endurance, eat enough carbs keep to keep it in the 40/40/20.
Fiber and Lean Protein.
Eat lots of it.
If you are training your endurance, eat enough carbs keep to keep it in the 40/40/20.
bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit.
Eat FAT. Eat fatty meats. Fiber is useless. And don't do endurance training and don't eat the carbs.
Carbs spike your insulin, which is pretty much the root of all metabolic evil. Dump the carbs, dump the cardio, and you'll be healthier AND have more free time.
Posted by Troy on Mar. 23 2010,08:44
Let's just run down what you are doing to your body.You have successfully managed to give yourself a temporary form of diabetes, congrats, your body cannot store glycogen correctly. You burn fat stores instead of carbs, skipping carbs and causing fun things like organ failure (kidneys) and gout. It does keep you skinny though, no denying that, so it isn't all bad, and there are some good reasons to do it... but not if you are also doing...
Your High-Fat, Low Fiber diet.
Low Fiber is bad enough on its own, allowing for fun things like Constipation, IBS, colon cancer, and polyps. Not to mention that all of those silly fiber rich food also account for a ton of the Minerals and Vitamins you are supposed to get on a daily basis.
But you also don't even worry about eating lean Protein, so you consume fatty protein. Wonderful. When is the last time a doctor looked at your cholesterol? The blood in your cardiovascular system is not only high in cholesterol, but never gets worked out, because you don't have the energy to do it, even if you wanted to. Yada Yada, Con-genitive Heart Failure, Heart Attacks, blah blah blah.
You are doing a diet that is designed to work to lose serious weight, especially someone who is grossly obese, because it totally turns your metabolism on its head. However, by not compensating, and eating correctly, you are destroying your inner organs.
Go to your doctor and have him take a look at your Cardiovascular system, and if I'm wrong, you'll totally change my mind on the subject.
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2010,09:56
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Posted by Troy on Mar. 23 2010,10:28
(thibodeaux @ Mar. 23 2010,09:56)
QUOTE
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Says the man arguing that a Sedentary/High Fat/No Carb, diet and exercise plan is the key to good health, and long life.
Feel free to explain to me why this is not the case.
I'll once again point out that you are very close to a very effective "keep me skinny" diet. But even No-Carb, Ketosis diet practicers focus on lean protein, and half of their "specially formatted foods" are supplemented with Fiber.
Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 23 2010,10:31
So, what are yall's triglyceride levels out of curiosity? Mine were 116 last checked (January).
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2010,10:45
(Troy @ Mar. 23 2010,13:28)
QUOTE
Says the man arguing that a Sedentary/High Fat/No Carb, diet and exercise plan is the key to good health, and long life.
Feel free to explain to me why this is not the case.
Feel free to explain to me why this is not the case.
I didn't say "sedentary," I said dump the cardio endurance.
RTFM, man:
< http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/ >
This is how your body evolved to live.
My triglycerides were 53 in January, down from 203 back when I was, guess what, running 5ks and eating lots of carbs.
Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 23 2010,11:09
Well, Troy, Thib's triglycerides rock. So as the son of a cardiologist, I'll approve. 
Troy may find < this guy > more amenable to his dietary beliefs.
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2010,11:27
Mark Sisson is definitely The Man. Yeah, Troy, tell that guy he's killing himself.< http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definit....ng-plan >
Posted by Cakedaddy on Mar. 23 2010,11:48
What's a Triglyceride?
Posted by Troy on Mar. 23 2010,12:08
Ah, Primal Diet, got it. I just briefly skimmed it before.You failed to highlight some of the other parts of that diet into the bullet points at the top of this page. Meat, yeah good, but you have to be eating all the other good stuff like Vegetables, Berries, Nuts, etc...
Further, given the very slight amount of research (Let's face it, it's a fad diet, just like any other), I'm willing to bet that ANY diet that forces you to eat lower calories by adopting non processed foods (easier to get full before overeating, lower calorie compression,) will result in a healthier life style.
There is a direct relation between calorie consumed being larger than calories needed and practically every non-genetic medical problem.
I also have trouble basing my diet on incomplete knowledge of what "Hunter-Gatherers" ate, as well as people who rarely lived older than 30.
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2010,12:31
What you still don't get is that it's NOT about the amount of calories. It's about keeping insulin under control. I don't count calories. I have no idea how many calories I consume, and I don't care. I eat when I'm hungry and I stop when I'm full.And of course, here we go with the "cavemen died at 30." Really? If you don't know what they ate, how do you know how long they lived? What killed them? Disease or trauma (attacks by animals or other people)? Did you know that the anthropological evidence shows that hunter-gatherers were healthier than contemporary, co-located agriculturalists?
Also, why do you think you need vegetables? How were Eskimos and Europeans able to be healthy < eating nothing but meat most of the year >?
Simply put: most of what people think they know about nutrition is just plain bullshit. It's government-sponsored and approved bullshit, just like the Global Warming bullshit. Which makes it doubly obnoxious.
Posted by Troy on Mar. 23 2010,12:49
So your immediate response is " We know nothing about caveman life styles, diets or health" and yet in the same breath proclaim that a diet based on what we don't know is ideal. @ Inuits: Fish liver, seaweed, whale skin, and seal brain. If you actually eat those things, then yeah, I guess you do getting those important vitamins. Cold water fish are the shit. But I wonder what all those other non-Artic hunter-gatherers did.
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 23 2010,12:59
(Troy @ Mar. 23 2010,15:49)
QUOTE
So your immediate response is " We know nothing about caveman life styles, diets or health" and yet in the same breath proclaim that a diet based on what we don't know is ideal.
No, dumbass, that's what YOU said. I'm saying we DO know what non-agricultural people ate (and in some places still eat), and we DO know that they were healthier than agricultural people.
Posted by Troy on Mar. 23 2010,13:27
(thibodeaux @ Mar. 23 2010,12:59)
QUOTE
(Troy @ Mar. 23 2010,15:49)
QUOTE
So your immediate response is " We know nothing about caveman life styles, diets or health" and yet in the same breath proclaim that a diet based on what we don't know is ideal.
No, dumbass, that's what YOU said. I'm saying we DO know what non-agricultural people ate (and in some places still eat), and we DO know that they were healthier than agricultural people.
Oops, I read that too fast. I thought you were actually saying that.... Anyway.... Our fossil records tell us where the early Hunter Gatherer's lived in a myriad of environments, spreading all over the globe.
We know that they supplemented their game with whatever was available to fill their dietary requirements for life. The human body is made to adapt, able to get the nutrients it needs from multiple sources. Since Hunter-Gathers lived in a wide ranging environment(we know this because of the fossil record), we HAVE to assume that they were able to mix and match between multiple varieties of animals, fish, plants, fruit, nuts, dairy and seeds to survive.
The same Vitamin A that the Inuits got from fish oil, some other hunter gatherer got from wild carrots. Both were able to keep up their eyesight. The ones that did not were selected out.
Picking one aspect of the diet, Meat, and being blind to the myriad of other nutrients that they consumed is silly.
A healthy balance is and always will be the key. Fad diets will come, and they will go. 10 years from now maybe we will be back to the all bread diet. Atkins faded pretty fast.
Keeping yourself on a balanced, diet, rich in Vitamins and Minerals is necessary for growth and maintaining a complete body structure. Nothing will ever change that.
Posted by GORDON on Mar. 23 2010,13:30
I've never heard anyone suggest that US Marines, who exercise a lot, have a problem with low testosterone levels.
Posted by Malcolm on Mar. 23 2010,13:31
(Troy @ Mar. 23 2010,15:27)
QUOTE
Nothing will ever change that.
I plan to put my brain in a mechanical body & go cyborg at the earliest possible opportunity.
Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 23 2010,15:43
(GORDON @ Mar. 23 2010,15:30)
QUOTE
I've never heard anyone suggest that US Marines, who exercise a lot, have a problem with low testosterone levels.
Don't ask, don't tell, right?
Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 23 2010,17:20
Actually, this thread has made me decide to begin an incremental move towards better health.Step one is now in effect: avoiding High Fructose Corn Syrup whenever it can be identified. I am now drinking a Pepsi Throwback instead of Coke. This I can handle, and supposedly it'll be a good first step to take.
Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 24 2010,04:36
Ummm....
Posted by TPRJones on Mar. 24 2010,05:17
The key word is incremental.In a few years, I might try step two.
Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 24 2010,06:01
Is this like a 5,000 step program?
Posted by unkbill on Mar. 24 2010,06:15
(thibodeaux @ Mar. 23 2010,08:20)
QUOTE
Carbs spike your insulin, which is pretty much the root of all metabolic evil. Dump the carbs, dump the cardio, and you'll be healthier AND have more free time.
That is true in a fashion. When I was on the total carb diet you never ate fruit with your meals because that will trigger the insulin, which equals not good.
Posted by unkbill on Mar. 24 2010,06:23
(Cakedaddy @ Mar. 23 2010,11:48)
QUOTE
What's a Triglyceride?
It is what they monitor people like me(diabetes in the family) for. If they are always on the high side you stand a good chance of forming diabetes. Mine have always be average along with cholesterol and I like my animals. I just don't eat sugar anymore.
Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 26 2010,04:43
Thib, can you post what a typical breakfast/lunch/dinner looks like for you?And what does you wife think of it?
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 26 2010,06:25
She's on board.Let's see, for breakfast this morning I had 6 slices of bacon and 2 eggs. Usually I have a little less bacon and an extra egg, though.
For lunch yesterday I had a pound of barbecued pork. Easy on the sauce, because it's basically corn syrup.
For supper I usually have meat and some kind of green vegetable, like broccoli, spinach, or asparagus.
Sometimes I'm not hungry and I skip a meal. Sometimes instead of a real meal I'll drink a whey-powder smoothie.
Posted by TheCatt on Mar. 26 2010,15:28
Do the kids eat the same?And, doesn't that basically make this the Atkins diet (except no dairy)?
Posted by thibodeaux on Mar. 26 2010,18:19
I dunno anything about Atkins. I give the kids some slack; they're kinda like Gordon's kid. Picky.
Posted by thibodeaux on Jun. 22 2010,17:31
Just so you can see the results, here's me at the beach exactly 2 years ago:< http://imgur.com/ORnZ1.jpg >
< http://imgur.com/AURI4.jpg >
And then here's me at the beach last week:
< http://imgur.com/DKn4D.jpg >
< http://imgur.com/JoOW7.jpg >
Two years ago I was all about the low-fat, high-fiber: skim milk, triscuits, lean meat. I was also running 2 or 3 miles 2 or 3 times a week. Yet I was a doughy, pasty, lumpy mess. Probably because I was also eating a lot of brownies, to fuel my running habit.
Now, I eat full-fat everything: fat ribeyes, vegetables sauteed in butter, lots of nuts. For lunch I'll eat a whole pound of BBQ (hey, Gordon, remember that BBQ place we went to?)---not every day, but at least once, sometimes twice a week. No more long runs: the only running I do is a set of 20-second sprints maybe once a week. I do lift weights for about a half hour 3 times a week. I also started "intermittent fasting," which just means I skip a meal or two occasionally, usually BEFORE a workout.
Will this work for everyone? Dunno. I was always kind of skinny until I hit 30, so maybe it's genetic. But it's so low-effort, I highly recommend it.
Posted by TheCatt on Jul. 08 2010,15:02
Well, I ran my 5k in a, not as good as hoped, 28:00 time, for 9:00 minute/mile average. Running in the morning is brutal.At any rate, I just got my health insurance blood test results too:
Triglycerides: 64
HDL: 48 (highest ever by 16)
LDL: 140
Pulse: 53
BP: 105/70
Booyah.
Posted by unkbill on Jul. 09 2010,07:53
I have been using my treadmill since mid December. Slowing bumping up time, distance and throwing in weights. Lost 35 lbs till last month just learning how to count calories. Summer is here which means a different party every weekend. Still don't eat much crap like potato chips. Just to much beer so I am not losing any weight. Which I have decided not to worry about for now because I'm not gaining either. Just going to keep walking and working out. I loved the Adkins diet. All meat. Can't afford to buy that much meat now so will just keep counting.