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TheCatt 
Top 2%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 22951
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,10:25 |
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I have no problem with people building things.
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It's not me, it's someone else.
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,12:21 |
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I disagree with the basis you have given for the position, but I ignore your inflammatory wording and vote Nay to the ban nonetheless.
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,13:06 |
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Whew. The world of Swiss architecture is safe. Anybody else feel better?
& no, this is a bullshit law. If they think banning building a particular structure is going to stop or stem ANYTHING, they're fucking morons.
QUOTE "The Islamic religion is intolerant, but we do not want to limit freedom of religion, we want to outlaw the political symbol,"
Perfect example of a fucking moron. Intolerant? You've got to be shitting me. Coming from a dude whose country has interesting ties to Nazis & their sympathizers. It's even more unbelievable coming from a dude that up till about 150 years ago, lived in a country where there was open hatred & political warfare between Catholics & Protestants.
If the Swiss outlawed crucifixes on buildings, the pope & every bishop having to do w\ that country would be claiming religious persecution.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,13:26 |
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That brings to mind an interesting dilemma... what happens if you have a completely free, democratic society, and a group begins to rise to power that publicly states they wish to curtail freedom and liberty, in an extreme fashion? Â Do you let the voting public vote themselves out of freedom? Â In our government, if they could get the executive and legislative branches, would a legacy supreme court be able to do anything about, say, removing the franchise for women, and stating that Sharia is LAW?
Are we free to end freedom?
And yes, I already realize we have curtailed some freedoms, but I am talking drastic measures, like those the fundie muslims would impose on the world (or fundie christians, for that matter).
Edited by GORDON on Nov. 29 2009,13:27
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I don't give a fuck!
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TheCatt
Top 2%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 22951
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,13:34 |
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I don't agree with the nazi ban either. So who were the two to vote for the ban?
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,13:54 |
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QUOTE Are we free to end freedom?
Absolutely. Â Otherwise, your means to guarantee or freedom become forceful & tend to stomp on the ultimate individual right to say, "Fuck it all."
QUOTE Germany has banned Nazi imagery in order to..... officially say they no longer hate jews, I guess.
Another of many stupid European laws. Â They trying to pretend it didn't happen? Â If you'd not like a repeat of that, then your best bet is to expose the bullshit in the ideology, not sweep it under the rug & pretend "out of sight, out of mind" is an viable principle.
QUOTE Is this any different?
Yes. Â The anti-Nazi sentiment in Germany looks like it comes from a tremendous sense of national guilt. Â They're quite aware they let the psycho minority run wild & unchecked & the rest of the civilized world is going to remember that till at least the last Holocaust survivor dies. Â Banning architecture is ... I'm not sure what the fuck they're hoping to accomplish. Â Cut the foreplay & just boot them out of your country like you obviously want to. Â The dickhead I quoted is under some delusion that by hiding behind legal technicalities, he can somehow mask his open bias against a particular religion. I suppose since the Swiss don't actually go to war w\ anyone anymore, the strongest response they have is to combat inanimate objects.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,17:57 |
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Here's a question:
What kind or religion needs a particular "building" in order to be practiced?
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| Post Number: 11
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TheCatt
Top 2%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 22951
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,19:04 |
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All of them?
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| Post Number: 12
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,19:53 |
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Oh?
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2009,19:58 |
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Spirituality is internal and requires no buildings. Religion is external and requires fancy buildings as an expression of political and social power.
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 30 2009,06:11 |
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QUOTE What kind or religion needs a particular "building" in order to be practiced?
Technically speaking none, unless it involves worshiping a building.
QUOTE So banning a certain architectural style does not persecute a religion, unless that religion has a political or social agenda?
First off, you find me a religion that doesn't have a political or social agenda. & yes, it does. Technically religious don't need icons or symbols to get along. But if you banned images of the Cross of the Star of David, you are indeed persecuting Christians or Jews.
QUOTE And if a society is free to restrict freedom, are they free to restrict.... undesirables from making political statements or shows of power?
Absolutely. But it makes that state look hypocritical & brainless, especially considering that shoving Jews into ovens & mass graves wasn't enough to make them move. & most certainly they're not free from the criticism, constructive or otherwise, their decisions invite.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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thibodeaux
RAG
Group: Privateers
Posts: 6494
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 02 2009,12:42 |
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Just because I'm mean, here's the Tu Quoque argument.
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 02 2009,12:50 |
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One of the comments on that page was, "The US should limit the amount of mosques in the US as there are christian churches in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia."
Have been driving a lot this week, and have been paying attention:
Passed many churches, and at least half had no religious symbols or imagery on their buildings at all. The other half had small crosses of the cross/flame thing the methodists use. They must not be very good at worshiping their gods, or something.
Have passed 2 mosques, and I was able to see their minarets from miles away.
On a side note, I don't see what is wrong with a population using a peaceful vote to say "I don't think that fits in with our culture." They don't want the problems of forced marriages, honor killings, etc.
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| Post Number: 18
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TheCatt
Top 2%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 22951
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 02 2009,12:58 |
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Banning the buildings doesn't stop the culture.
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| Post Number: 19
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 02 2009,13:04 |
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(GORDON @ Dec. 02 2009,14:50)
QUOTE They don't want the problems of forced marriages, honor killings, etc.
Those all involve people. Buildings are made from concrete, metal, & wood.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 20
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 02 2009,13:21 |
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And that is what I have been saying from the beginning, and now everyone is on board: banning a building does not persecute a religion.
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